ZooChat Challenge Europe 2017

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Chlidonias said:
because you were using an old classification
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Which, I presume, is why he said the following:

zoogiraffe said:
that may or may not prove either us both right and wrong at the same time
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Either way, this seems to suggest that the overall scenario may well be the one I noted above; that the Cotswold population comprised hybrids which were mostly one species (hybridus) but contained a small amount of heritage from a second (geoffroyi) - given the fact the female mentioned above as being closest to the geoffroyi phenotype is about seven years too young to have been one of the originally imported animals, then I imagine it is possible she is a 50/50 hybrid and that her progeny have increasing amounts of hybridus blood.

Of course, without knowing how many individuals of each species actually arrived at Cotswold Wildlife Park in 1969, and the sex ratio involved, this can only ever be speculation.
 
ShonenJake13 said:
After a stroke of luck....

Ouwehands Dierenpark

108) Sulawesi tarsier (Tarsius tarsier)
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does anyone know where in Sulawesi these originated from? There are quite a number of tarsiers in Sulawesi which all look very similar. T. tarsier is restricted to Selayar Island, so I would think it unlikely to be that one.
 
The only thing I can tell is that both individuals in question (one of them died) originated from RSCC, but I don't know from where in Sulawesi these latter imported them, sorry.
 
Indeed, they are down to just one. If anyone knows which species is kept in Singapore they are intending on possibly bringing some in from them at some point.
 
ShonenJake13 said:
Indeed, they are down to just one. If anyone knows which species is kept in Singapore they are intending on possibly bringing some in from them at some point.
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Singapore's are also listed as "Spectral Tarsier Tarsius tarsier" but they very likely aren't. The problem is that you formerly had a lumped "species" (variously T. tarsier or T. spectrum, depending on author - eventually tarsier replaced spectrum as the accepted name), which at one point included every tarsier on Sulawesi and its surrounding islands. After a few earlier splits (pumilus, dentata [dianae], lariang) there was left a remainder with a very disjunct population and these were the "Tarsius tarsier". The species on the northern islands were split off first (tumpara, sangirensis, pelengensis) and then you were left with the mainland group which had populations in the north of the island and the south of the island but not in the middle of the island. The true T. tarsier (i.e. those of the type) are now restricted to Selayar Island (south of Makassar). In the south of the Sulawesi mainland there is T. fuscus, and in the north there are three further species (wallacei, supriatnai, spectrumgurskyae). This almost certainly isn't the end of the Sulawesi taxonomic tangle, but what it does mean is that for any captive tarsiers from the region the specific origin needs to be known (or very detailed investigations of their morphology and genetics) before they can be claimed as one or the other.
 
Just got back from my trip, so had a chance to finally read the discussion on a big screen over multiple tabs to try and make sense of it. :P

However, I'm not quite sure how to handle it. Has the spider monkey issue been resolved? The explanation that seemed most likely to me was that Reaseheath and Monkey World each have 1 pure A.geoffroyi and a few hybrids, but as I've never seen any of their individuals in person I find it hard to make a judgment on a rather confusing discussion.

About the tarsier: I'm very keen on knowing more about both Ouwehands' and Singapore's species and their origins! Until we know anything for sure, I suppose it's best to just call them T.tarsier sensu lato.

And for my new primates:
Zoologická zahrada Jihlava, 07/08/2017:
93) Campbell's monkey, Cercopithecus campbelli
94) Lowe's monkey, Cercopithecus lowei
95) Graell's tamarin, Leontocebus graellsi

Zoologická zahrada Brno, 08/08/2017:
96) Olive baboon, Papio anubis

Zoologická zahrada Olomouc, 10/08/2017:
97) Japanese macaque, Macaca fuscata

Zoologická zahrada Ostrava, 11/08/2017:
98) Diana monkey, Cercopithecus diana

Zoologická zahrada Praha, 12/08/2017:
99) Moholi bushbaby, Galago moholi

Zoologická zahrada Ústí nad Labem, 13/08/2017:
100) Silvered leaf monkey, Trachypithecus cristatus
101) Bonnet macaque, Macaca radiata
102) Sykes' monkey, Cercopithecus albogularis

ZOO Dvůr Králové, 14/08/2017:
103) Drill, Mandrillus leucophaeus

:D
 
Vision said:
Zoologická zahrada Ústí nad Labem, 13/08/2017:
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Off-topic, but probably the most important question arising from this visit - do they, or do they not, still hold the Serow?
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Off-topic, but probably the most important question arising from this visit - do they, or do they not, still hold the Serow?
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A very tricky question. We did not see them anywhere, but there are plenty places they might be:
1) Near the entrance in a hilly wooded exhibit in which we saw muntjacs. This is an option because this is where the serow is indicated on the large maps in the zoo itself; however, they are not signed there on the printed maps that are handed out, so our theory is that it used to be kept there but isn't any more.
2) In an exhibit with himalayan griffon vultures and nilgais. After not seeing the serows, we decided to ask a keeper (whom we told the english name which she didn't know, so then we followed that up with a picture to which she immediately reacted "Ah, serau!"), who called people and asked another keeper walking by and eventually pointed at that exhibit on our map.
3) In a semi-off-show hoofstock pen near the zebras and lechwes, as that is where they were last seen (in May of this year).
 
GerbenElzinga said:
At Zooparc Overloon

24. Red-faced spider monkey (Ateles paniscus)
25. Bolivian squirrel monkey (Saimiri boliviensis boliviensis)
26. Lac Alaotra bamboo lemur (Hapalemur alaotrensis)
27. Common marmoset (Callithrix jacchus)
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Time to step up my game...

Jihlava
28. Bearded emperor tamarin (Saguinus imperator subgrisescens)
29. Black crested mangabey (Lophocebus aterrimus)
30. Black lemur (Eulemur macaco)
31. Goeldi's monkey(Callimico goeldii)
32. Campbell's guenon (Cercopithecus campbelli)
33. Garnett's bushbaby (Otolemur garnettii)
34. Graells's tamarin (Leontocebus graellsi)
35. Gray mouse lemur (Microcebus murinus)
36. King Colobus (Colobus polykomos)
37. Lowe's monkey (Cercopithecus lowei)
48. Red-cheeked gibbon (Nomascus gabriellae)
39. Senegal bushbaby (Galago senegalensis)
40. Silvery marmoset (Mico argentatus)
41. Spix's moustached tamarin (Saguinus mystax)

Brno
42. Common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes)
43. Gelada (Theropithecus gelada)
44. Olive baboon (Papio anubis)

Zlin
45. Moloch gibbon (Hylobates moloch)
46. Siamang (Symphalangus syndactylus)

Olomouc
47. Japanese macaque (Macaca fuscata)
48. Patas monkey (Erythrocebus patas)

Ostrava
49. Crowned lemur (Eulemur coronatus)
50. Diana monkey (Cercopithecus Diana)
51. Mongoose lemur (Eulemur mongoz)

Praha
52. Barbary macaque (Macaca sylvanus)
53. Mexican spider monkey (Ateles geoffroyi vellerosus)
54. Moholi bushbaby (Galago moholi)
55. Northern talapoin monkey (Miopithecus ogouensis)
56. Sumatran orangutan (Pongo abelii)
57. Sunda pig-tailed macaque (Macaca nemestrina)

Plzen
58. Collared lemur (Eulemur collaris)
59. De Brazza's monkey (Cercopithecus neglectus)
60. Red-mantled saddle-back tamarin (Leontocebus lagonotus)
61. Red-bellied lemur (Eulemur rubriventer)
62. Southern Bolivian Night monkey (Aotus azarae boliviensis)
63. Tanzanian Black-and-white colobus (Colobus angolensis palliates)
64. Western Fat-tailed dwarf lemur (Cheirogaleus medius)
65. White-fronted lemur (Eulemur albifrons)

Usti
66. Bonnet macaque (Macaca radiata)
67. Mandrill (Mandrillus sphinx)
68. Mt Kilimanjaro guereza (Colobus guereza caudatus)
69. Northern White-cheeked Gibbon (Nomascus leucogenys)
70. Silvered leaf-monkey (Trachypithecus cristatus)
71. Sykes' monkey (Cercopithecus albogularis)

Decin
72. Crested black macaque (Macaca nigra)

Dvur Kralove
73. Drill (Mandrillus leucophaeus)

I believe that's it...
 
GerbenElzinga said:
Time to step up my game...

Jihlava
28. Bearded emperor tamarin (Saguinus imperator subgrisescens)
29. Black crested mangabey (Lophocebus aterrimus)
30. Black lemur (Eulemur macaco)
31. Goeldi's monkey(Callimico goeldii)
32. Campbell's guenon (Cercopithecus campbelli)
33. Garnett's bushbaby (Otolemur garnettii)
34. Graells's tamarin (Leontocebus graellsi)
35. Gray mouse lemur (Microcebus murinus)
36. King Colobus (Colobus polykomos)
37. Lowe's monkey (Cercopithecus lowei)
48. Red-cheeked gibbon (Nomascus gabriellae)
39. Senegal bushbaby (Galago senegalensis)
40. Silvery marmoset (Mico argentatus)
41. Spix's moustached tamarin (Saguinus mystax)

Brno
42. Common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes)
43. Gelada (Theropithecus gelada)
44. Olive baboon (Papio anubis)

Zlin
45. Moloch gibbon (Hylobates moloch)
46. Siamang (Symphalangus syndactylus)

Olomouc
47. Japanese macaque (Macaca fuscata)
48. Patas monkey (Erythrocebus patas)

Ostrava
49. Crowned lemur (Eulemur coronatus)
50. Diana monkey (Cercopithecus Diana)
51. Mongoose lemur (Eulemur mongoz)

Praha
52. Barbary macaque (Macaca sylvanus)
53. Mexican spider monkey (Ateles geoffroyi vellerosus)
54. Moholi bushbaby (Galago moholi)
55. Northern talapoin monkey (Miopithecus ogouensis)
56. Sumatran orangutan (Pongo abelii)
57. Sunda pig-tailed macaque (Macaca nemestrina)

Plzen
58. Collared lemur (Eulemur collaris)
59. De Brazza's monkey (Cercopithecus neglectus)
60. Red-mantled saddle-back tamarin (Leontocebus lagonotus)
61. Red-bellied lemur (Eulemur rubriventer)
62. Southern Bolivian Night monkey (Aotus azarae boliviensis)
63. Tanzanian Black-and-white colobus (Colobus angolensis palliates)
64. Western Fat-tailed dwarf lemur (Cheirogaleus medius)
65. White-fronted lemur (Eulemur albifrons)

Usti
66. Bonnet macaque (Macaca radiata)
67. Mandrill (Mandrillus sphinx)
68. Mt Kilimanjaro guereza (Colobus guereza caudatus)
69. Northern White-cheeked Gibbon (Nomascus leucogenys)
70. Silvered leaf-monkey (Trachypithecus cristatus)
71. Sykes' monkey (Cercopithecus albogularis)

Decin
72. Crested black macaque (Macaca nigra)

Dvur Kralove
73. Drill (Mandrillus leucophaeus)

I believe that's it...
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Oops, that wasn't it.

Zlin
74. Pied tamarin (Saguinus bicolor)

Prague
75. Malayan slow loris (Nycticebus coucang)
 
MagpieGoose said:
Chester Zoo
1) Lar Gibbon (Hylobates lar)
2) Cotton-Topped Tamarin (Saguinus oedipus)
3) White-Faced Saki Monkey (Pithecia pithecia)
4) Black Howler Monkey (Alouatta caraya)
5) Aye-Aye (Daubentonia madagascariensis)
6) Western Chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes verus)
7) Bornean Orangutan (Pongo pygmaes)
8) Sumatran Orangutan (Pongo abelii)

Welsh Mountain Zoo
9) Red-Faced Spider Monkey (Ateles paniscus)
10) Ring-Tailed Lemur (Lemur catta)
11) Red Fronted Lemur (Eulemur rufifrons)

Chester Zoo
12) Javan Gibbon (Hylobates moloch)
13) Sulawesi Crested Macaque (Macaca nigra)
14) Golden-Headed Lion Tamarin (Leontopithecus chrysomelas)
15) Emperor Tamarin (Saguinus imperator)
16) Eastern Pygmy Marmoset (Callithrix pygmaea nivieventris)
17) Colombian Black-Faced Spider Monkey (Ateles fusciceps rufiventris)
18) Lion Tailed Macaque (Macaca silenus)
19) Mandrill (Mandrillus sphinx)
20) Buffy-headed Capuchin (Sapajus xanthosternos)

Rio Safari Elche
21) White-fronted Lemur (Eulemur albifrons)
22) Green Monkey (Chlorocebus sabaeus)
23) Golden-bellied Mangabey (Cercocebus chrysogaster)
24) Black-crested Macaque (Lophocebus aterrimus)
25) Common Marmoset (Callithrix jacchus)

ZSL London Zoo
26) Diana Monkey (Cercopithecus diana)
27) Hanuman Langur (Semnopithecus entellus)
28) Alaotran Gentle Lemur (Hapalemur griseus alaotrensis)
29) White-Naped Mangabey (Cercocebus atys lunulatus)
30) Eastern Black-&-White Colobus (Colobus guereza)
31) Western Lowland Gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla)
32) Golden-Lion Tamarin (Leontopithecus rosalia)
33) Goeldi's Monkey (Callimico goeldii)
34) Bushbaby (Galago moholi)
35) Grey-slender Loris (Loris lydekkarianus)
36) Red Titi Monkey (Callicebus cupreus)
37) Potto (Perodicticus potto)
38) Black-Capped Squirrel Monkey (Saimiri boliviensis)

Paradise Wildlife Park
39) Black-Tailed Marmoset (Mico melanurus)
40) Silvery Marmoset (Mico argentatus)
41) Geoffroy’s Marmoset (Callithrix geoffroyi)
42) White-Cheeked Gibbon (Nomascus leucogenys)
43) Red-Ruffed Lemur (Varecia rubra)
44) Black-and-White Ruffed Lemur (Varecia variegata)
45) Black Lemur (Lemur macaco)

Twycross Zoo
46) Dusky Langur (Trachypithecus obscurus)
47) Lowe's Guenon (Cercopithecus lowei)
48) Javan Langur (Trachypithecus auratus auratus)
49) De Brazza's Monkey (Cercopithecus neglectus)
50) Bonobo (Pan paniscus)
51) Brown Spider Monkey (Ateles hybridus)
52) Crowned Guenon (Cercopithecus pogonias)
53) François Langur (Trachypithecus francoisi)
54) L' Hoest's Monkey (Cercopithecus lhoesti)
55) Agile Gibbon (Hylobates agilis)
56) Pilated Gibbon (Hylobates pileatus)
57) Siamang (Symphalangus syndactylus)
58) Crowned Lemur (Eulemur coronatus)

Bristol Zoo Gardens
59) Grey Mouse Lemur (Microcebus murinus)
60) Common Squirrel Monkey (Saimiri sciureus)
61) Drill (Mandrillus leucophaeus)
62) Pygmy Slow Loris (Nycticebus pygmaeus)

Wild Place Project
63) Mongoose Lemur (Eulemur mongoz)
64) Gelada (Theropithecus gelada)

West Midlands Safari Park
65) Grey-legged Night Monkey (Aotus lemurinus griseimembra)

Chester Zoo
66) Pied Tamarin (Saguinus bicolour)

Borth Wild Animal Kingdom
67) Black-capped Capuchin (Cebus apella)
68) Grivet Monkey (Chlorocebus aethiops)
69) Patas Monkey (Erythrocebus patas)
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Wow!, 84 days since I last saw a new species of primate for this challenge. I couldn't find the Red-handed Tamarin at Beale Park, so finally adding some to my list. I have removed the Weeper Capuchin following doubt over him and also I have been informed that the Vervet Monkeys are actually Grivets.

Five Sisters Zoo Park
70) Red-bellied Tamarin (Saguinus labiatus)
71) Common Brown Lemur (Eulemur fuluvus)
 
KevinVar said:
One more addition from Apenheul which couldn't be revealed before, but am allowed to post now and other additions following a visit to Artis this week.
46. Red-backed bearded saki (Chiropotes chiropotes)
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if you saw it as a member of the public surely you could have revealed it before? Or was it offshow but visible?
 
Vision said:
However, I'm not quite sure how to handle it. Has the spider monkey issue been resolved? The explanation that seemed most likely to me was that Reaseheath and Monkey World each have 1 pure A.geoffroyi and a few hybrids, but as I've never seen any of their individuals in person I find it hard to make a judgment on a rather confusing discussion.
Click to expand...
I have no stake in the challenge, but my understanding is that the "pure" animal at Reaseheath seems to be based on probability (although @mrcriss seems to be referring to actual records - I wasn't clear on that), and the "pure" animal at Monkey World is based on appearance. I find it odd that the "pure" male at Monkey World - although it does look good for being a pure animal - does not resemble the "pure" female at Reaseheath which is supposed to be the mother.

My inclination would be to disallow all of the spider monkeys at those two establishments on the basis of uncertainty.

Vision said:
About the tarsier: I'm very keen on knowing more about both Ouwehands' and Singapore's species and their origins! Until we know anything for sure, I suppose it's best to just call them T.tarsier sensu lato.
Click to expand...
I would agree with that - and it's not like there are any other tarsiers in Europe to complicate the challenge!
 
FunkyGibbon said:
if you saw it as a member of the public surely you could have revealed it before? Or was it offshow but visible?
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KevinVar and I saw the two males from the visitor path while they were off-show, but back then it was not yet made public that the collection had them so we didn't want to reveal something in case they'd rather keep it secret.

Chlidonias said:
I have no stake in the challenge, but my understanding is that the "pure" animal at Reaseheath seems to be based on probability (although @mrcriss seems to be referring to actual records - I wasn't clear on that), and the "pure" animal at Monkey World is based on appearance. I find it odd that the "pure" male at Monkey World - although it does look good for being a pure animal - does not resemble the "pure" female at Reaseheath which is supposed to be the mother.

My inclination would be to disallow all of the spider monkeys at those two establishments on the basis of uncertainty.
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Ah okay, I thought it was more certain. In that case, I agree with your inclination to disallow them - unless DNA tests are done to prove anything before the end of the year.

Chlidonias said:
I would agree with that - and it's not like there are any other tarsiers in Europe to complicate the challenge!
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The zoo world can be an unpredictable one! When I typed up "in some cases like Eulemur rufus/rufifrons, Nycticebus coucang, Tarsius tarsier, Lagothrix lagotricha, Cebus capucinus, Chlorocebus aethiops and Semnopithecus entellus, I suggest we follow Zootierliste's lead and list them all as the sensu lato species" in the first post of this thread, I added the tarsier more for completion's sake than because I actually believed anyone would see it!
 
Vision said:
Ah okay, I thought it was more certain. In that case, I agree with your inclination to disallow them - unless DNA tests are done to prove anything before the end of the year.

I added the tarsier more for completion's sake than because I actually believed anyone would see it!
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So I am on 109 and @zoogiraffe is on 78 then. No worries! I'm sure I'll see an actual geoffroyi before the year is out :)

You and me both Vision! I had no idea I would be lucky enough to see him when I went to Ouwehands :D
 
Joshua said:
71 Black saki Chiropotes chiropotes Apenheul
72 Black tufted-ear marmoset Callithrix penicillata Apenheul
73 Black-nosed patas Erythrocebus patas patas Apenheul
74 Blue-eyed black lemur Eulemur flavifrons Apenheul
75 Crowned sifaka Propithecus coronatus Apenheul
76 L'Hoest's monkey Allochrocebus lhoesti Apenheul
77 Lac Alaotra bamboo lemur Hapalemur alaotrensis Apenheul
78 Pied tamarin Saguinus bicolor Apenheul
79 Venezuelan red howler Alouatta seniculus seniculus Apenheul
80 White-faced capuchin Cebus capucinus Apenheul
81 Woolly monkey Lagothrix lagotricha Apenheul
Click to expand...

82 Common mona monkey Cercopithecus mona Zoo Osnabrück
 
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