Chester Zoo The Future of Chester's Elephant Breeding Program

Given that information it would be hard to link this with the farthers but still you would think there must be some link there given the numbers I mean there is bad luck and there’s bad luck. Was thinking today the elephants that went to Chester from Twycross, then back to be bread did they succeed in being pregnant and did there calf’s survive, was trying to find out on google but no luck yet. If so and they didn’t survive would they also be counted as Chester elephant or Twycross but if they did survive could this be some thing environmental that alowed them to survive.
 
Bo
J C said:
Given that information it would be hard to link this with the farthers but still you would think there must be some link there given the numbers I mean there is bad luck and there’s bad luck. Was thinking today the elephants that went to Chester from Twycross, then back to be bread did they succeed in being pregnant and did there calf’s survive, was trying to find out on google but no luck yet. If so and they didn’t survive would they also be counted as Chester elephant or Twycross but if they did survive could this be some thing environmental that alowed them to survive.
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Both had daughters, all four animals are still alive at Blackpool, unless I'm mistaken.
I don't know if this is relevant, but in the early days Chester had mixed African and Asian Elephants in that house, and Africans are known carriers of the virus.
 
FBBird said:
Bo

Both had daughters, all four animals are still alive at Blackpool, unless I'm mistaken.
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Twycross females Tonzi and Minbu were mated at Chester by original bull Chang. Both produced female calves, Tara and Karishma, back at Twycross. Karishma was later sent to Whipsnade due to behavioural reasons, where she still lives and is breeding. Tonzi was pts due to advanced arthritis etc. That left Minbu, and Tonzi's daughter Tara at Twycross, with the younger unrelated Noorjahan and her young daughter Esha. So only Noorjahan and Esha are related at Blackpool.
 
Ok if that’s right is that not strange that Twycross should have better look than the breading giant of Chester. On another note if they did take the discussion to move the heard to a none breading facility Twycross could take the whole heard in and keep it together baring the bull of course, something I think other places would struggle to do with such numbers slowing them to start a fresh
 
Pertinax said:
Twycross females Tonzi and Minbu were mated at Chester by original bull Chang. Both produced female calves, Tara and Karishma, back at Twycross. Karishma was later sent to Whipsnade due to behavioural reasons, where she still lives and is breeding. Tonzi was pts due to advanced arthritis etc. That left Minbu, and Tonzi's daughter Tara at Twycross, with the younger unrelated Noorjahan and her young daughter Esha. So only Noorjahan and Esha are related at Blackpool.
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Nice to have that sorted out. Thinking about it, I knew about Karishma moving. Didn't know Tonzi died. Believe Noorjahan's daughter was via AI?
 
Yes, I seem to remember he had a bit missing from his ear where he’d had injections or something as a baby.
However googling everything says he died of a heart problem. Maybe I remembered wrongly, but I remember a board in the elephant house that talked about herpes, but maybe that was unrelated
 
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According to Secret Life of the Zoo (season 6, episode 1, aired 31/10/2018) the elephant team and vets decided that Anjan will be Thi's ninth and final calf and they will no longer allow her to breed, throughout the episode they highlighted how difficult this pregnancy was for Thi citing her arthritis as a cause for concern. Given this information it seems as though the breeding programme will come to a natural close as Thi will no longer be bred, Maya is a non breeding female, Indali is too young to breed and is still at risk of EEHV which leaves only Sundara as a breeding female (according to previous SLOTZ episodes she is not the most experienced mum and does not seem to have that close of a relationship with Thi as Sithami did?). Depending on the likelihood of Chester bringing in one or more breeding females (which I do not think is very likely due to seeing Maya on multiple visits and she is always on the outskirts which leads me to believe Thi is not very accepting of outsiders (just my personal opinion)) the breeding programme is likely to come to an end. Depending on the future of the Hi Way family Chester may be able to start over with a new herd of breeding females.
 
How pronounced is Thi’s arthritis and can it be successfully managed in the long term? Watching the episode my thoughts were of her ex-ZSL stablemate (and fellow Burmese rescue) Azizah and her ailments.
 
Wha males you beliefert that the elephant breeding may come to a "naturally close"? As you mentions yourself, there is still Sundara who is not even 15 years old and has many reproductive years left. She may not be the most maternal female, but she is raising her calves sucessfully (or would if they didnt die from EEHV). She will have many more calves unless the zoo decides otherwise. Plus they have Indali, who - in case she survives EEHV - will be ready to have babies in just a few years.

Regarding Thi's arthritis, I don't believe it is possible to look into the future. She is unlikely to become 50, though.
 
Yassa said:
Wha males you beliefert that the elephant breeding may come to a "naturally close"? As you mentions yourself, there is still Sundara who is not even 15 years old and has many reproductive years left. She may not be the most maternal female, but she is raising her calves sucessfully (or would if they didnt die from EEHV). She will have many more calves unless the zoo decides otherwise. Plus they have Indali, who - in case she survives EEHV - will be ready to have babies in just a few years.

Regarding Thi's arthritis, I don't believe it is possible to look into the future. She is unlikely to become 50, though.
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Thai is being retired from breeding but that doesn't mean her life expectancy will be a lot shorter just depends on how her arthritis affects her. If it can be controlled and she has a quality of life she could be around at Chester for a fair few years yet.
 
Yassa said:
Wha males you beliefert that the elephant breeding may come to a "naturally close"? As you mentions yourself, there is still Sundara who is not even 15 years old and has many reproductive years left. She may not be the most maternal female, but she is raising her calves sucessfully (or would if they didnt die from EEHV). She will have many more calves unless the zoo decides otherwise. Plus they have Indali, who - in case she survives EEHV - will be ready to have babies in just a few years.

Regarding Thi's arthritis, I don't believe it is possible to look into the future. She is unlikely to become 50, though.
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I have lost track of the Elephants how old is Indali?
 
katinakalinakaterina said:
According to Secret Life of the Zoo (season 6, episode 1, aired 31/10/2018) the elephant team and vets decided that Anjan will be Thi's ninth and final calf and they will no longer allow her to breed, throughout the episode they highlighted how difficult this pregnancy was for Thi citing her arthritis as a cause for concern. Given this information it seems as though the breeding programme will come to a natural close as Thi will no longer be bred, Maya is a non breeding female, Indali is too young to breed and is still at risk of EEHV which leaves only Sundara as a breeding female (according to previous SLOTZ episodes she is not the most experienced mum and does not seem to have that close of a relationship with Thi as Sithami did?). Depending on the likelihood of Chester bringing in one or more breeding females (which I do not think is very likely due to seeing Maya on multiple visits and she is always on the outskirts which leads me to believe Thi is not very accepting of outsiders (just my personal opinion)) the breeding programme is likely to come to an end. Depending on the future of the Hi Way family Chester may be able to start over with a new herd of breeding females.
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Out of interest, why is Maya a non-breeding female? And what is Sundara's track record with breeding like - i.e. has she raised any calves reasonably successfully to date?
 
Sand Cat said:
Out of interest, why is Maya a non-breeding female? And what is Sundara's track record with breeding like - i.e. has she raised any calves reasonably successfully to date?
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Maya is an older non-reproducing female that joined Chester's group after time at Belfast(?) and (briefly) Bristol Zoos. Presumably her reproductive system shut down from lack of breeding before she ever had access to males at Chester. There may be other reasons too that I'm not aware of.

Sundara is the incestuous daughter of Sithami x Upali(or was it Chang?) anyway, as all recent calves to date have now died from the EEHV she is yet to raise a calf.
 
Pertinax said:
Maya is an older non-reproducing female that joined Chester's group after time at Belfast(?) and (briefly) Bristol Zoos. Presumably her reproductive system shut down from lack of breeding before she ever had access to males at Chester. There may be other reasons too that I'm not aware of.

Sundara is the incestuous daughter of Sithami x Upali(or was it Chang?) anyway, as all recent calves to date have now died from the EEHV she is yet to raise a calf.
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Sundara is Sithami x Upali although originally it was believed that her father was Chang. It'll be a few more years before any more calves are born.
 
Pertinax said:
Maya is an older non-reproducing female that joined Chester's group after time at Belfast(?) and (briefly) Bristol Zoos....
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According to the on-line Elephant Database, "Maya" was born in 1966.

She arrived at Chester in 1990 after spending a short while at Chessington. Prior to Chessington, she had two spells at Bristol and two periods at Woburn.
 
Embu said:
Sundara is Sithami x Upali although originally it was believed that her father was Chang. It'll be a few more years before any more calves are born.
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Forgive my ignorance, but why would Chester breed from her if she’s the offspring of an incestuous mating? Surely that’s not good genetically or for the breeding programme?
 
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