Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Zoological Gardens in 2019

[DesertRhino150]

I appreciate that non-native species can cause damage, but I feel they get scapegoated, and other issues get missed. I'm aware this is not a fashionable opinion, and expect to be lambasted if anyone reads this.

Entirely agree with this statement - no lambasting here. The situation with the sacred ibis particularly is utterly ridiculous, considering that almost all the 'crimes' levelled against it have either no basis in fact or were (seemingly) deliberately misinterpreted. There was a 14-year study on the French population that I have included below which makes clear the facts surrounding the issue.

https://abp.bzh/pdfs/m/marion_sacred_ibis_crbiol2013_.pdf

Apologies for dragging the Dudley thread even further off-tangent.

 

[Maguari]

While we're making random suggestions for Inca's old home, and apologies if this was already raised and I've missed it, but North American Tree Porcupines would be a nice fit in terms of space, structure and hardiness.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Entirely agree with this statement - no lambasting here. The situation with the sacred ibis particularly is utterly ridiculous, considering that almost all the 'crimes' levelled against it have either no basis in fact or were (seemingly) deliberately misinterpreted. There was a 14-year study on the French population that I have included below which makes clear the facts surrounding the issue.

https://abp.bzh/pdfs/m/marion_sacred_ibis_crbiol2013_.pdf

Apologies for dragging the Dudley thread even further off-tangent.

Yes, me too! The new legislation is scientifically questionable and is already being used as a way to introduce (and get accepted), the idea of banning species. It is not being evenly enforced, thereby discriminating against some at the benefit of others; and it misses off spp which are politically 'difficult' to deal with. The one UK endemic which is in imminent danger of extinction due to the presence of an invasive spp is the Scottish Wildcat. IF this act was being evenly and fairly enforced, then the first taxon to be controlled/banned by it should have been the domestic cat. Clearly DEFRA are making their species choices using political and not scientific criteria, and if an exception can be made in this instance, then it can in any other less critical situation.

 

[Benosaurus]

Indian sloth bears - Considering that Whipsnade already has the Sri Lankan subspecies of this type of bear, it would be pretty nice IMO to see another UK Zoo house Sloth bears considering their small size despite how aggressive they can be (similarly to sun bears nethertheless). Plus, the enclosure would look far more suitable to house at least either 3 or 4 sloth bears or even a pair of Sun bears than any larger species of bear.

I think it's completely unacceptable to have any kind of bear exhibited in a small pit these days (Inca was an exception). Even though sloth and sun bears are relatively small, the enclosure still wouldn't feel big enough for them, especially for multiple individuals. Husbandry would also be really poor due to the constraints of the enclosure; no separate outdoor enclosure, no holding area, dens next door to each other. What if there were fights or cubs were born and the male had to be separated off?

Another reason why they won't get sloth or sun bears is because roughly this time next year there should be 3-4 European brown bears going into a naturalistic 1.5 acre enclosure in the Bear Ravine.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Yes they are. The UK has gone beyond the position of all/most other European countries and included both Nasua nasua and Nasua narica.

Interesting - I had heard this ridiculous idea of enforcing the rule at genus level was in place, but after Chester started to keep Indian Muntjac (congeneric with a species on the list) I thought perhaps sense had been seen!

Where/if Brexit affects this legislation, no-one will tell us; but Zoos seem to have accepted it without opposition - although in some European countries of course Zoos are exempted.

Given the fact that DEFRA are responsible for pushing so hard for the legislation, and enforcing it so strictly, I am not holding my breath.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Interesting - I had heard this ridiculous idea of enforcing the rule at genus level was in place, but after Chester started to keep Indian Muntjac (congeneric with a species on the list) I thought perhaps sense had been seen!

Not sure that what has been already done with Nasua can be taken that the same is being done at genus level for ALL spp. The risk-assessment we have is purely the one for Coatis and the implication therein is that these r/a's are being done on an individual basis.

A generic approach will have very interesting practical consequences when they get around to adding Canada Geese, domestic cats, bamboo, eucaluptus, miscanthus, buddleia.... Perhaps this is where the EU's target list of 10,000 'species' comes from?

It is most unfortunate that many zoos and zoo associations seem supportive of this ridiculous and unscientific legislation. It appears to have crept in from Brussels unchallenged, and even added to by our Government - we must hope that it is an early casualty of Brexit.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

It appears to have crept in from Brussels unchallenged, and even added to by our Government - we must hope that it is an early casualty of Brexit.

Time will tell, as you note.... though as I observed above, as this is something we pushed for Brussels to bring in, I fear it will be left untouched and unchallenged no matter what.

(Latest species on the list is Lampropeltis getula, in case anyone reading this thread hasn't heard - now that one will cause chaos!)

 

[Andrew Swales]

Time will tell, as you note.... though as I observed above, as this is something we pushed for Brussels to bring in, I fear it will be left untouched and unchallenged no matter what.

(Latest species on the list is Lampropeltis getula, in case anyone reading this thread hasn't heard - now that one will cause chaos!)

It will be interesting to see how many new 'alien' species establish themselves in the UK as a direct result of this legislation. Apparently the instances of dumped Raccoons and Raccoon Dogs are increasing dramatically...

 

[FBBird]

Entirely agree with this statement - no lambasting here. The situation with the sacred ibis particularly is utterly ridiculous, considering that almost all the 'crimes' levelled against it have either no basis in fact or were (seemingly) deliberately misinterpreted. There was a 14-year study on the French population that I have included below which makes clear the facts surrounding the issue.

https://abp.bzh/pdfs/m/marion_sacred_ibis_crbiol2013_.pdf

Apologies for dragging the Dudley thread even further off-tangent.

Wasn't there also a suggestion that some of the French birds were of wild origin?

It will be interesting to see how many new 'alien' species establish themselves in the UK as a direct result of this legislation. Apparently the instances of dumped Raccoons and Raccoon Dogs are increasing dramatically...

And NOBODY saw that coming.....

Not sure that what has been already done with Nasua can be taken that the same is being done at genus level for ALL spp. The risk-assessment we have is purely the one for Coatis and the implication therein is that these r/a's are being done on an individual basis.

A generic approach will have very interesting practical consequences when they get around to adding Canada Geese, domestic cats, bamboo, eucaluptus, miscanthus, buddleia.... Perhaps this is where the EU's target list of 10,000 'species' comes from?

It is most unfortunate that many zoos and zoo associations seem supportive of this ridiculous and unscientific legislation. It appears to have crept in from Brussels unchallenged, and even added to by our Government - we must hope that it is an early casualty of Brexit.

No way Canada Geese can be other than desirable -- handsome, musical, and delicious if there's a surplus. How can anything that weighs twelve pounds and tastes good, possibly be a nuisance?

Interesting - I had heard this ridiculous idea of enforcing the rule at genus level was in place, but after Chester started to keep Indian Muntjac (congeneric with a species on the list) I thought perhaps sense had been seen!



Given the fact that DEFRA are responsible for pushing so hard for the legislation, and enforcing it so strictly, I am not holding my breath.

Funny thing is, the reason we have Chinese (Reeves') Muntjac in UK, is that the Indian ones tried at Woburn, went round killing dogs. See 'The Years of Transition'.

Funny thing is, the reason we have Chinese (Reeves') Muntjac in UK, is that the Indian ones tried at Woburn, went round killing dogs. See 'The Years of Transition'.

I'm also told that muntjac are delicious.

 

[Angel]

Howler monkey siblings Tyler (5) and Shelby (4) who were both born at DZG have relocated to Jerusalem Biblical Zoo as part of an international breeding programme. A new life in Israel - Dudley Zoological Gardens

 

[Angel]

Two pancake tortoises are on show in the Reptile House having relocated from Bristol Zoo. They are a new species for DZG. As flat as a pancake! - Dudley Zoological Gardens

 

[Angel]

Two Bennett's wallaby joeys have been seen at DZG this spring Peepo! We see you! - Dudley Zoological Gardens

 

[Angel]

Three badger cubs have been spotted in the old wallaby enclosure behind the former elephant house - they are believed to be around 8-9 weeks old. Exciting update from badger watch! - Dudley Zoological Gardens

 

[Gigit]

Three badger cubs have been spotted in the old wallaby enclosure behind the former elephant house - they are believed to be around 8-9 weeks old. Exciting update from badger watch! - Dudley Zoological Gardens

Paignton used to get excited about having badgers on site

 

[pipaluk]

Paignton used to get excited about having badgers on site

I thought the same when I saw the article, I just hope that the badgers don't prove to be a negative for Dudley in the end. The consequences for Dudley would probably be far more serious if they suffered Paignton 's current issues

 

[Pertinax]

I thought the same when I saw the article, I just hope that the badgers don't prove to be a negative for Dudley in the end. The consequences for Dudley would probably be far more serious if they suffered Paignton 's current issues

I would think a badger population in Dudley is likely to be TB free due to being surrounded by urbanisation, so isolated from other populations?

 

[pipaluk]

I would think a badger population in Dudley is likely to be TB free due to being surrounded by urbanisation, so isolated from other populations?

We can hope you are right

 

[Benosaurus]

I would think a badger population in Dudley is likely to be TB free due to being surrounded by urbanisation, so isolated from other populations?

The risk is smaller but the zoo still needs to be very careful. There are several acres of woodland to the north of the zoo, woodland that is only 200 metres along a quiet road from the local Wren's Nest nature reserve, which itself is not too far from farmland, so they are not completely cut off.

As we know badgers can travel large distances in just one night in order to find food and other setts, as well as the potential for the disease to be carried by other animals such as rats/mice.

I'm surprised the zoo has tolerated the badgers for so many years given the potential risk of disease and damage. Not to mention the fact they have completely taken over one enclosure and their sett is underneath the foundations of the top of the vintage chairlift.

Apparently there are a further FIVE separate setts across the zoo's 40 acre site, but the zoo is quite secretive as to where they are. I think one of them may be behind the camel paddock as I remember following a trail of prints in the sand of the adjacent playground towards there as a child.

 

[Pertinax]

The risk is smaller but the zoo still needs to be very careful. There are several acres of woodland to the north of the zoo, woodland that is only 200 metres along a quiet road from the local Wren's Nest nature reserve, which itself is not too far from farmland, so they are not completely cut off.

As we know badgers can travel large distances in just one night in order to find food and other setts, as well as the potential for the disease to be carried by other animals such as rats/mice.

I'm surprised the zoo has tolerated the badgers for so many years given the potential risk of disease and damage. Not to mention the fact they have completely taken over one enclosure and their sett is underneath the foundations of the top of the vintage chairlift.

Apparently there are a further FIVE separate setts across the zoo's 40 acre site, but the zoo is quite secretive as to where they are. I think one of them may be behind the camel paddock as I remember following a trail of prints in the sand of the adjacent playground towards there as a child.

Not as isolated as I thought maybe... Badgers can certainly get everywhere- I saw large and very active setts on exposed coastal cliffs in the South West last week.

 

[TNT]

Not as isolated as I thought maybe... Badgers can certainly get everywhere- I saw large and very active setts on exposed coastal cliffs in the South West last week.

Where in the South west was that?