Maybe get some celebrity endorsements to generate footfall? In light of the marvellous new golfing enterprise, how about Tiger (Woods) Territory?
That’s having tongue FIRMLY in cheek btw!
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2019
- Thread starter Crowthorne
- Start date
Maybe get some celebrity endorsements to generate footfall? In light of the marvellous new golfing enterprise, how about Tiger (Woods) Territory?
That’s having tongue FIRMLY in cheek btw!
Maybe get some celebrity endorsements to generate footfall? In light of the marvellous new golfing enterprise, how about Tiger (Woods) Territory?
That’s having tongue FIRMLY in cheek btw!
You've been watching too much Fierce Creatures
I don't think footfall's the main problem here. A zoo with over a million visitors annually, at the prices they charge, really should be economically viable and self-sustaining (especially with the profile that ZSL has). Also, given the sites size, significant extra visitors may diminish the enjoyment of those visiting due to over-crowding -all the more reason to use the site they have well (and avoid dead areas).
ZSL's real problem would seem to be a poor management (in terms of spending versus outcomes) and loss of direction/ambition (mis-focus on big splashy enclosures at the expense of bringing the whole site up to scratch and seemingly drifting away from a key raison d'etre of displaying animals).
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
I think the part I have bolded slightly misses the mark. People laughed when a very poor Zurich Zoo built the world's best Spectacled bear exhibit in 1996. They're not laughing now:
I posit that the problem is not that London has been focused on specific projects to the detriment of the overall site (although the state of the north bank aviaries is shameful). And further, it's not even that new developments like the Clore renovation or Land of the Lions have disappointed (I still maintain that the latter is not nearly as bad as everyone says). Rather, I think it is that as time goes on it's becoming clear that ZSL is casting itself as a modern day Nero, but rather than Rome burning it is the Mappins that are crumbling. The failure to tackle this mouldering mountain is a millstone around the neck that grows heavier with every passing season. As each year another new project is taken up instead it becomes more and more obvious that there really isn't a plan. Maybe it's unfair to pin all the blame on ZSL, but with the closure of the Aquarium it really does feel like a monument to failure.
Therefore, I would suggest that what London needs is not less mega-projects but more. The development to end all developments: Mappins 2.0!
Which, I fear, would result in the following development entitled "Bankruptcy!"
I've lost count of the amount of times ZSL themselves have proposed various solutions to the Mappins ( Polar bears, gorillas, Sloth bears, Outback ) and I agree something needs to be done, as it is such an enormous structure that dominates not just the zoo but surrounding park. The problem is, as has been alluded to, ZSL have left it festering for far too long-with one consequence being the permanent closure of the once excellent Aquarium. The wheels should have been put into motion when the Sloth bears transferred to Whipsnade 10 years ago, before they started Penguin Beach.
How on earth are ZSL going to find the funds for a complete renovation, and how can they justify it? And, if they look for outside investment, who in this day-and-age would readily stump up the astronomical sums the site requires? A Heritage Lottery grant would be a mere drop in the ocean.
I hope I'm wrong but I fear the answer has been clear to all of us for a long time, and one ZSL has known since the bears departed: let it rot.
The crazy golf decision (and others like it) really does make it increasingly hard to defend the zoo on these forums.
Having just got back from Prague, it is astonishing what can be done with 'LBJ' and unusual species (exactly the sort of thing ZSL should focus on) to make them interesting to the general public. There were crowds around the brown hyenas, Etruscan shrews, honey badgers etc etc.
It is upsetting as a life-long London zoo-goer that the management either doesn't care to make the effort or believes that crazy golf, animatronic dinosaurs and silent discos (none, I appreciate, necessarily a bad thing in their own way) are bigger crow-pullers than living animals.
Having just got back from Prague, it is astonishing what can be done with 'LBJ' and unusual species (exactly the sort of thing ZSL should focus on) to make them interesting to the general public. There were crowds around the brown hyenas, Etruscan shrews, honey badgers etc etc.
It is upsetting as a life-long London zoo-goer that the management either doesn't care to make the effort or believes that crazy golf, animatronic dinosaurs and silent discos (none, I appreciate, necessarily a bad thing in their own way) are bigger crow-pullers than living animals.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Is this true? I’m not sure that it would be fair to describe the Zürich zoo of the early 90s as “very poor“; nor am I sure that the development of the spectacled bear enclosure drew criticism. Certainly, Zürich was then not where it is now, and was, in my opinion, a long way behind for example Basel, but it was not dissimilar to a number of urban German zoos in that it seemed a bit tired, a bit conservative. However, it was never anything other than tidy, cared for, and rich in what it had to show. The Exotarium alone would have made it a good place – and then on, on top of that, there was much else that was wonderful (even if the elephant house at the time was pretty grim). I would certainly swap the London of 2019 for the Zürich of 1996.
Announcement on Facebook that young Male Aye-Aye Malcolm/Peanut has moved to Bristol Zoo to pair with their female Tahiry
First visit in a while, but not much new apparent.
Saw mating by the Hyacinth Macaws, Dwarf Mongoose and, most excitingly, the Okapis!
The aquatic section of the Australian Water Rat enclosure has been redeveloped, the water level is much lower now.
The Emperor Tamarins were fighting a bit, looks looks there's some discord in the group.
Saw the infamous mini golf, but not many people using it. The old anteater viewing windows have been boarded up
Saw mating by the Hyacinth Macaws, Dwarf Mongoose and, most excitingly, the Okapis!
The aquatic section of the Australian Water Rat enclosure has been redeveloped, the water level is much lower now.
The Emperor Tamarins were fighting a bit, looks looks there's some discord in the group.
Saw the infamous mini golf, but not many people using it. The old anteater viewing windows have been boarded up
there is a new two tier wooden platform for the lions in the Station paddock of the Land of the Lions. Not sure if the Lions yet have access to it as they were in the pond paddock.
Animal Adventure reconstruction is clearly in progress
The 2 Tawny Frogmouth enclosures close to the large turnstile exit now appear empty. So as they were last of the aviaries occupied on the Snowdon Aviary side I would not be surprised if that path access was removed for the Snowdon Aviary construction.
Did notice a otter or two ( ie only saw one at any given time so cannot be certain I saw both) exploring their enclosure and pool yesterday afternoon although that may have been a short keeper monitored introduction.
Animal Adventure reconstruction is clearly in progress
The 2 Tawny Frogmouth enclosures close to the large turnstile exit now appear empty. So as they were last of the aviaries occupied on the Snowdon Aviary side I would not be surprised if that path access was removed for the Snowdon Aviary construction.
Did notice a otter or two ( ie only saw one at any given time so cannot be certain I saw both) exploring their enclosure and pool yesterday afternoon although that may have been a short keeper monitored introduction.
Are there new otters?
The three female otters that were at London have now moved to Whipsnade. London will now have a breeding couple but not sure when they will be in the holt
More info about the mini golf. It looks like it's run by an external company called 'Plonk', and there is no mention of an end-date
Crazy Golf in ZSL London Zoo | Mini Golf in North London
Crazy Golf in ZSL London Zoo | Mini Golf in North London
If it's any consolation, Chester removed its 'Conservation Golf' course a while ago. It never seemed to attract much custom. It has been replaced with 'Treetop Challenge' - a climbing course for 2 to 7 year olds with TWO mini zip lines (sic), which doesn't seem to get busy either.
The difference is that the area at Chester was previously just a path, grass and shrubs if I remember correctly, so no animals or exhibits were affected. I can't understand why ZSL keeps emptying their animal exhibits.
The difference is that the area at Chester was previously just a path, grass and shrubs if I remember correctly, so no animals or exhibits were affected. I can't understand why ZSL keeps emptying their animal exhibits.
I just can't see that money is the only issue here, the Society make a healthy surplus almost every year!!!
Lack of imagination I reckon. Where are the new developments for eagles, bears, honey badgers, fish, amphibians, hyenas, Clouded Leopards, Francois Langurs, Macaques, Gharials, King Cobras... Polar Bears at Whipsnade...
There are very few endangered or critically endangered species in the collection. Look at Chester and even Bristol on how to do things...
Lack of imagination I reckon. Where are the new developments for eagles, bears, honey badgers, fish, amphibians, hyenas, Clouded Leopards, Francois Langurs, Macaques, Gharials, King Cobras... Polar Bears at Whipsnade...
There are very few endangered or critically endangered species in the collection. Look at Chester and even Bristol on how to do things...
Bristol is a good model for how an inner city zoo should run. They do have space problems of course, but they have charismatic animals for the public but a whole bunch of non-charismatic but fascinating species also on-show. And all in a beautiful setting.
London could be similar if they fought to remove the protected status from some of the buildings which are no longer suitable for animals. London is still a great zoo but it does need to look itself in the mirror.
London could be similar if they fought to remove the protected status from some of the buildings which are no longer suitable for animals. London is still a great zoo but it does need to look itself in the mirror.
Tearing down the zoo's history - which won't happen anyway - would remove the last vestiges of what makes London special.
And, much as I love Bristol, I can't understand why it's suggested as a model. London has bigger collections of megafauna, small mammals, birds, herps, fish (for now), and invertebrates. It contributes vastly more to conservation and research, and exhibit quality is arguably higher. What is there to emulate?
And with a £6 individual entry (according to the Plonk website) I can see the same happening at London. Why would an average-size family of 4 bother when you have to factor in zoo entry costs, food and gift shop spend?
There are parallels between London and Bristol and there are differences.
Both have relatively small city centre sites, with associated rural sites in the same region. Both have problems with "iconic" listed buildings and with other old buildings which have become unfit for purpose. They even have very similar lists of 'star' species to attract visitors including Indian lions, gorillas, pygmy hippos, aye-ayes etc.
Of course London has a larger site and consequently has more species, more visitors and bigger problems too. Being in the capital city certainly brings higher costs and a great deal more media attention and publicity - both good and bad: on the other hand, I would suggest that this makes it easier to attract funding from bodies like the National Heritage Lottery Fund.
I have visited both zoos many times since 1971, including visits to both within the last month, so I feel well qualified to say that there are several ways that London could emulate Bristol.
a) Listed buildings: there are three Grade II listed buildings at Bristol Zoo, the two entrance buildings and what was the Giraffe House. The South Entrance is now closed, but the architecture is preserved. The Main Entrance has been modernised and extended inside the zoo, but the external facade is unchanged. The Giraffe House was modified when an extension was built for elephants (in the 1960s I think) and again when the gorillas moved in and the last elephant went across the house and then being replaced by okapis. In 2012 the interior was imaginatively reconstructed to provide more space for the gorillas, without altering the external structure. Surely the Casson elephant house and the Mappins are prime candidates for similarly radical internal adaptations: imagine the interior of the elephant house hollowed out and spanned by a walkway over a manatee pool; imagine the whole inner section of the Mappins changed into a shallow slope for a herd of antelope, leaving the four artificial mountains as the skyline: of course such projects would need careful negotiations with Historic England and a good deal of capital, but Bristol's experience shows that neither of these are impossible.
b) Modifying older buildings: the conversion of Bristol's old bear pit into an Aquarium is another example of using an existing space imaginatively. The result may not be absolutely ideal, I have never liked the walk-though central tank, but the other exhibits are very good. I also like Bug World, where a range of good exhibits have been fitted into an awkward space - B.U.G.S may be a nicer building, but the exhibit quality is weaker in my opinion. The conversion of the Sobell Pavilions into Gorilla Kingdom doesn't seem to work well for either the gorillas or the visitors and the other species seem to be random leftovers. It is only fair to add that both zoos still have spaces that could benefit from renewal, such as the North Bank at London and the interior of Forest of Birds and Smarty Plants at Bristol (I do hope they demolish the old Monkey Temple before some fool suggests listing it too). Let us hope that the work goes well at Zona Brasil and the Snowdon Aviary.
c) Use of space: both sites have limited space, but virtually all the space at Bristol is used and cared for: the latest development being the conversion of a small area beside the giant tortoise paddock into an Asian Turtle Breeding Room. ZooChatters might think that too much space is devoted to play areas, gardens and lawns, but they all seem to be well used and appreciated by visitors. I understand that London needs trees and shrubs to screen parts of the zoo from the Outer Circle and Regent's Park, indeed some spaces like the steep canal banks can only be used like this, but there are lots of small areas between existing exhibits that appear to be unused and unloved. London Zoo seems to have lost interest in planning and building new small exhibits, and even in looking after the ones they have. The outdoor enclosures at the Round House end of the Clore are overgrown, so is the Komodo dragon outdoor exhibit, and the windowed exhibit in the south wall of the Reptile House is boarded up. Am I being unfair in wondering why more care seems to have been taken in arranging the display of flip-flops at the fake shoe stall in Land of the Lions than in designing and maintaining the neighbouring mongoose exhibit?
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Is the Monkey Temple not listed at all at present? Or the Aquarium building? And what about the two 'restaurant' buildings along the sides of the zoo- though I appreciate they don't really feature in discussions about revamps, though the Bug World is in the upper floor of one of them.