ZooChat Cup Group C2: Beauval vs Bronx
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
I know very little in this regard for either collection, but I have a feeling Bronx has more species falling into one of the categories at hand than does Beauval.
It will the same situation for Beauval. I've never been but I doubt Bronx has more than 10 European species.
I can only post mammals and birds for now as I have to be off to school but I'll come back to post the rest later.
Bronx
-American Bison
-North American Cougar (three wild-rescued orphans)
-Striped Skunk
-Western Spotted Skunk
-California Sea Lion (various wild-rescued animals)
-White-Nosed Coati (found in the United States so should count)
-Grizzly Bear (four wild-rescued animals)
-Sitka Brown Bear (three wild-rescued orphans)
-California Mouse
-Cactus Mouse
-North American Deer Mouse
-North American Porcupine
-Merriam's Kangaroo-Rat
-Eurasian Harvest Mouse
-Western House Mouse
-Harris's Antelope Squirrel
-Yellow-Bellied Marmot (one wild-rescued individual)
-Black-Tailed Prairie Dog
-American Golden Eagle (one wild-rescued individual)
-Bald Eagle (two wild-rescued individuals)
-Ring-Necked Duck
-Canvasback
-Emperor Goose
-Trumpeter Swan
-Hooded Merganser
-Smew
-American Ruddy Duck
-Cinnamon Teal
-Bufflehead
-Eurasian Kestrel
-Tufted Puffin
-American Black Oystercatcher
-Eurasian Oystercatcher
-Forster's Tern
-Common Tern
-Pied Avocet
-Western Capercaillie
-Black-Billed Magpie
-Song Thrush
-Snowy Egret
-Black-Crowned Night-Heron
-Brown Pelican
-Roseate Spoonbill
-American Flamingo
-Monk Parakeet (imagine these don't count but they're heavily introduced to both continents so I included them for now)
-Burrowing Owl
-Eurasian Eagle-Owl
-Snowy Owl
-Great Horned Owl (ssp. heterocnemis)
-Barred Owl (wild-rescued individuals)
-Anhinga
The Bronx is the zoo that saved the American Bison from extinction. Their efforts are what pushed for governmental protection for the species and saw hundreds of animals reintroduced back into the wild all across the nation. Today, they are one of the few zoos still breeding herds of bison (they have over 30) and are committed to breeding genetically pure nominate animals, either through the import of new pure founders or through artificial insemination of impure animals with pure genes. The zoo is also the only one in the US to breed capercaillie, which they specifically imported from European zoos.
As I mentioned before, I'll come back later to finish the species list and post more about their conservation efforts.
~Thylo
Bronx
-American Bison
-North American Cougar (three wild-rescued orphans)
-Striped Skunk
-Western Spotted Skunk
-California Sea Lion (various wild-rescued animals)
-White-Nosed Coati (found in the United States so should count)
-Grizzly Bear (four wild-rescued animals)
-Sitka Brown Bear (three wild-rescued orphans)
-California Mouse
-Cactus Mouse
-North American Deer Mouse
-North American Porcupine
-Merriam's Kangaroo-Rat
-Eurasian Harvest Mouse
-Western House Mouse
-Harris's Antelope Squirrel
-Yellow-Bellied Marmot (one wild-rescued individual)
-Black-Tailed Prairie Dog
-American Golden Eagle (one wild-rescued individual)
-Bald Eagle (two wild-rescued individuals)
-Ring-Necked Duck
-Canvasback
-Emperor Goose
-Trumpeter Swan
-Hooded Merganser
-Smew
-American Ruddy Duck
-Cinnamon Teal
-Bufflehead
-Eurasian Kestrel
-Tufted Puffin
-American Black Oystercatcher
-Eurasian Oystercatcher
-Forster's Tern
-Common Tern
-Pied Avocet
-Western Capercaillie
-Black-Billed Magpie
-Song Thrush
-Snowy Egret
-Black-Crowned Night-Heron
-Brown Pelican
-Roseate Spoonbill
-American Flamingo
-Monk Parakeet (imagine these don't count but they're heavily introduced to both continents so I included them for now)
-Burrowing Owl
-Eurasian Eagle-Owl
-Snowy Owl
-Great Horned Owl (ssp. heterocnemis)
-Barred Owl (wild-rescued individuals)
-Anhinga
The Bronx is the zoo that saved the American Bison from extinction. Their efforts are what pushed for governmental protection for the species and saw hundreds of animals reintroduced back into the wild all across the nation. Today, they are one of the few zoos still breeding herds of bison (they have over 30) and are committed to breeding genetically pure nominate animals, either through the import of new pure founders or through artificial insemination of impure animals with pure genes. The zoo is also the only one in the US to breed capercaillie, which they specifically imported from European zoos.
As I mentioned before, I'll come back later to finish the species list and post more about their conservation efforts.
~Thylo
Is this right?
That's a wonderful list, and it's only mammals and birds so far! Voting 2-1 Bronx, escpecially for the European species and rodents. If someone makes a convincing argument for Beauval though...
My point is that Beauval has v.few European OR North American taxa, so Bronx will still best it.
Not true. I'm doing the species list now and its bird count exceeds Bronx's I think.
Yes they keep Song Thrush in their European forest enclosure with capercaillie, Smew, and Eurasian Goldfinch--which is a species I forgot to add to my above list.
I also think I left off a few waterfowl by mistake, too, but I'll check the list again later.
When using ZTL, try to check the listing to see if anyone's reported actually seeing the species recently in order to verify it's not an outdated listing.
~Thylo
Well here is what Beauval has to offer:
West Indian manatee
Barbary macaque
Cougar
European brown bear
Northern raccoon
Arctic wolf
American black vulture
American flamingo
Bald eagle
Bar-headed goose
Barnacle goose
Bearded vulture
Black-necked stilt
Blue-winged teal
Cape Barren goose
Common black kite
Common buzzard
Common mallard
Common pochard
Common shelduck
Eurasian black vulture
Eurasian wigeon
European eider
European scaup
European white stork
Ferruginous hawk
Fulvous whistling duck
Golden eagle
Great white pelican
Greater white fronted goose
Harris' hawk
Hawaiian goose
Hooded merganser
Hottentot teal
Lanner falcon
Long-legged buzzard
Marbled teal
Northern cardinal
Northern pintail
Red kite
Red-breasted goose
Red crested pochard
Snowy owl
Southern boat billed heron
Spectacled owl
Steppe eagle
Tufted duck
Turkey vulture
Western Eurasian griffon vulture
Western spindalis
White-cheeked pintail
White-headed duck
White-tailed sea eagle
Wood duck
That's 54 species. So it is 54-51 in favour of Beauval.
Btw, I don't think the Monk parakeets should count. I didn't count introduced species in my list and it is by no means their native range.
West Indian manatee
Barbary macaque
Cougar
European brown bear
Northern raccoon
Arctic wolf
American black vulture
American flamingo
Bald eagle
Bar-headed goose
Barnacle goose
Bearded vulture
Black-necked stilt
Blue-winged teal
Cape Barren goose
Common black kite
Common buzzard
Common mallard
Common pochard
Common shelduck
Eurasian black vulture
Eurasian wigeon
European eider
European scaup
European white stork
Ferruginous hawk
Fulvous whistling duck
Golden eagle
Great white pelican
Greater white fronted goose
Harris' hawk
Hawaiian goose
Hooded merganser
Hottentot teal
Lanner falcon
Long-legged buzzard
Marbled teal
Northern cardinal
Northern pintail
Red kite
Red-breasted goose
Red crested pochard
Snowy owl
Southern boat billed heron
Spectacled owl
Steppe eagle
Tufted duck
Turkey vulture
Western Eurasian griffon vulture
Western spindalis
White-cheeked pintail
White-headed duck
White-tailed sea eagle
Wood duck
That's 54 species. So it is 54-51 in favour of Beauval.
Btw, I don't think the Monk parakeets should count. I didn't count introduced species in my list and it is by no means their native range.
I'll look through the list properly later, but I can see at least three that wouldn't count:
Probably comes under South American and Central American.
Asian.
Island/Oceania
Probably comes under South American and Central American.
Asian.
Island/Oceania
That species of manatee is actually well-established in Florida, although the particular subspecies/origin of the European zoo manatees is not.
An important question for @CGSwans: is Mexico counted as part of North America or Central/South America? If it's the latter, there are a few more species in AL's list that need to be discounted, such as boat-billed heron and spectacled owl.
I made my list assuming Mexico doesn't count, but if it does Bronx's list is a little higher.
That's fair and I have no problem removing them, but then aren't Barbary Macaques introduced to Gibraltar..?
EDIT: Also Europe's "Arctic Wolves" are wolf-dog hybrids.
~Thylo
Precisely - we've been following subspecies where relevant so far.
Fairly sure he already suggested the latter?
Cape Barren Goose jumped out at me too... 
When? I don't remember Mexico ever being mentioned before.
From the rebooted thread:
- Central America fits better with South, not North America based on the types of species that live there, so the third category is ‘South and Central America’. Caribbean islands also belong here.
- North America and Europe, as Amur Leopard notes, aren’t categories that often cross the pond. A European zoo drawing ‘Europe’ against an American zoo will win by default, and vice-versa. Luckily, the species line-ups are broadly similar so North America and Europe will form a combined category, allowing zoos from both continents to be meaningfully compared.
The categories are zoogeographic so Mexico should fall in Central America which falls in South America. North America/Europe is basically a Palaearctic category.
- Central America fits better with South, not North America based on the types of species that live there, so the third category is ‘South and Central America’. Caribbean islands also belong here.
- North America and Europe, as Amur Leopard notes, aren’t categories that often cross the pond. A European zoo drawing ‘Europe’ against an American zoo will win by default, and vice-versa. Luckily, the species line-ups are broadly similar so North America and Europe will form a combined category, allowing zoos from both continents to be meaningfully compared.
The categories are zoogeographic so Mexico should fall in Central America which falls in South America. North America/Europe is basically a Palaearctic category.
Alright, noted. I wasn't sure because Mexico is not generally considered part of Central America (the region he explicitly mentioned), and much of Mexico's fauna is either Palaearctic or Neotropical depending on what part of the country you're in.
Yeah, exactly. It would seem obtuse to include Central America under South America because of the faunal similarities but to then include Mexico in North America with a lot of those same species.
If it were my game I would "forget about" Mexico because it is a mix. "North America" would be the USA and Canada; "South America" would start at Guatemala. Any species in the game's zoos which come from Mexico would easily fall under either a Palaearctic fauna or Neotropical fauna and be treated accordingly.
I don't think any of these species count.
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If Mexico is counted as part of North America, then it is fine.
They were not introduced - no-one knows how they got there but there was a native population.
Arctic wolves are found in North America btw.
@CGSwans never actually said anything about Mexico, but it will be interesting to find out. Only a small portion of Mexico is actually tropical due to its desertification in the North and the rainfall deficits caused by a plethora of geographical reasons, but the vast majority is desert, which would be Palearctic.