Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes, but we haven had any details of what these 'EU state aid rules' actually are.
I asked, but there hasn't been a reply yet...
UK zoos & lockdown going forward...
- Thread starter TriUK
- Start date
I asked, but there hasn't been a reply yet...
If the 800k thing is true, zoos should be allowed to make repeat applications - say, 800k every month until March 2021.
Let's use Chester as an example - if they get their 800k allotment from the fund every month, that's half their monthly running costs covered, with memberships, adoptions and visitors covering the other half, plus a little extra.
Continue like that for a few months, with the zoo putting the money left over in the piggy bank... they'd be financially self-sufficient by January.
Let's use Chester as an example - if they get their 800k allotment from the fund every month, that's half their monthly running costs covered, with memberships, adoptions and visitors covering the other half, plus a little extra.
Continue like that for a few months, with the zoo putting the money left over in the piggy bank... they'd be financially self-sufficient by January.
If a zoo gets £800,000 a month for 9 months, that's £7.2 million from a government that is heavily in debt. Surely, each zoo should look at its finances and perhaps cut salaries of directors on 6 figure sums and stop paying millions for new enclosures for animals that are common in zoos and are not part of a reintroduction programme.
If zoos co-ordinated their activities more, they could decide which zoos would keep a species and encourage visitors to visit another zoo to see different species. There is no justification to keep several meerkat exhibits in one zoo and this is a species that could gradually be phased out by stopping captive breeding, so few zoos kept it.
I have a bad feeling that some zoos will cut back support for saving species in the wild and that many species will become extinct, especially if zoo managers aren't interested in conserving the species by captive breeding.
If zoos co-ordinated their activities more, they could decide which zoos would keep a species and encourage visitors to visit another zoo to see different species. There is no justification to keep several meerkat exhibits in one zoo and this is a species that could gradually be phased out by stopping captive breeding, so few zoos kept it.
I have a bad feeling that some zoos will cut back support for saving species in the wild and that many species will become extinct, especially if zoo managers aren't interested in conserving the species by captive breeding.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Do you have access to information which has not been released elsewhere? Is there ANY mention of zoos being able to access £800,000 per month? Dr Redrobe's piece did not mention it.
It is a legal requirement under the ZLA for education programmes and in-situ conservation programmes to be supported. This had been tightened considerably in the last round of changes imposed last year. It will be interesting to see what happens in future inspections, when the answer is 'you didn't give us the money so we can't afford to do it - we are still paying off pour extended borrowings'.
Multiple meerkat exhibits really are small fry costs wise, when compared to some directors salaries and other exhibit costs.
It is difficult for zoos to co-ordinate their animal collection in the way you suggest, even if they wanted to. The general public is not interested in making multiple visits to several zoos, very few interested individuals might, but not the great majority. Zoos are still in commercial competition with each other, regardless of what some may receive in grants.
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It doesn't mean that they can't be cut. Local authorities are supposed to run a library service, but many libraries have been closed.
You're probably right, but how many visitors would prefer to see another meerkat exhibit, rather than another species?
I find this statement upsetting, although I accept it is probably true. If the trend you suggest continues, it could lead to each zoo having practically the same popular ABC species, while the unusual species will be allowed to die out, because other zoos don't want to house them. Surely zoos should be working together and encouraging visitors to attend other zoos. In fact, buying a membership to one zoo can allow access to other zoos. When I was a little boy, several zoos had large collections and could keep ABC animals, as well as XYZs. Unfortunately, many animals were kept in small enclosures, that were inadequate for their physical and mental health. Many enclosures are now far better than they were, but collections are far smaller and some species are no longer kept in the UK, while others are very common in zoos.
As many zoos are in a precarious financial condition, surely this is not the time to still be in financial competition. Otherwise, many more zoos are going to close down with many of their animals not being rehoused.
In hard times being in financial competition is more important.
However, I'm not sure that inter-zoo financial competition is much of an issue at the moment given limits on attendances.
How many zoos have "several meerkat exhibits"?
Edinburgh Zoo had 8 meerkat exhibits according to Zoochat.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes, we will have to see what changes are made to the ZLA and how it is administered.
Perhaps more than you would imagine?
In reality, I think the range of species is probably increasing rather than decreasing...
There is no way financial competition can stop, short of Nationalisation, and not perhaps even then. Zoos are even in competition for the Government grants, if the pot is finite.
Surely financial competition increases variation and species range, rather than decreases it, as Zoos seek to offer something different.
... and yes, if there really are 8 meerkat exhibits, I would have to agree and accept that that is probably enough, maybe even too many
At one point in August 2016 they did - as both myself and @ThylacineAlive can attest to through personal experience! The figure is now three exhibits, as of November 2019.
Not that most of the other exhibits are currently being put to other use - at least three were standing empty with one even including a "this space intentionally left blank to attract native vegetation and insects" sign
As for this question, it is several years since my last visit (July 2014 I think) so matters may well be otherwise now, but at the time Marwell had four meerkat exhibits.
Since the old Meerkat exhibit was demolished, I have seen them in 7 different enclosures at Marwell and certainly in at least 4 places on one visit
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I am very curious to know where these 7 enclosures were, and the 4 that were occupied on the single day you visited.
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New Exhibit
Both exhibits in desert house
Old Coati Island
Old yellow mongoose exhibit in lemur area
Old Red panda enclosure behind snow leopard
Enclosure on the lawn at back of the hall
I think the four at once were 2 groups in desert house, Coati Island and lawn, before New exhibit was finished and after there was at least one side of desert house with them in plus at least 2 of the others. This was commented on by myself and others in the Marwell threads at the time
Just out of interest once everything gets back to normality (whatever that will look like):
What changes/improvements would you like to see at your local zoo/safari? This obviously is in the long run as it could take many zoos a good 12 months to recoup their losses from this lockdown.
What changes/improvements would you like to see at your local zoo/safari? This obviously is in the long run as it could take many zoos a good 12 months to recoup their losses from this lockdown.
Most interesting; I never saw them on Coati Island or in the
Most interesting. I never saw them at Coati Island, nor in the former Yellow mongoose enclosure by the lemurs so assume that this must have been for a very short period, probably when the new stock was obtained and later mixed for the group that started the "new" enclosure although some of these animals were certainly off show. The "two" (or more when required) exhibits in the former desert carnivore house are all inter-connected so can be considered as one enclosure. As this is all off-topic perhaps this thread should be diverted to a Marwell one.
ired
I would like to see the extent of funding available based on typical feeding costs. Bigger zoos do tend to waste money to some extent, on extravagant exhibits, high salaries for management etc. but you can't cut costs in the short term when it comes to feeding your animals! So, I feel that would probably be the best way to determine who gets what - otherwise you could end up where one zoo gets more money than another simply because they pay their admin staff a higher wage.