Zoo Conservation in Latin America

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Moderator note: Thread split from this thread: Brown hyena



I do think (and have done for many years) that zoos in Mexico (and in wider Latin America for that matter) have enough to do in terms of ex-situ captive breeding programes for native and endemic species which should be the priority IMO (particularly as Mexico has the highest amount of mammal biodiversity in the world).

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

OC, I look forward to our conversation too.

Agreed very much on your last line too. There is ALPZA and the Mexican zoo association AZCARM that need and will step up the mark. A good number of species are very much likely candidates from Meso America and Mexico.

Also, the cross border cooperation needs to increase significantly between Mexico and US. Programs like white rhino and gorilla are not getting the support they need right now (the focus of many zoos in Mexico is on African species mind). Gorilla have been bred in the past here and yet despite a demonstrated need none have been forthcoming to restart any breeding program in Mexico since. Other example, white rhino breeding groups yet need to get off the ground again with lack of cows coming thru from up north (the reality has been that Mexican Zoos like Guadalajara, Morelia and Puebla did breed successfully and continuously long before breeding success in US zoos got more regular. These beside. the existing exchange programs for e.g. California condor and Mexican wolf where this does happen ...

BTW: WAZA has to become more inclusive there as currently half the world is in Category III. Just check the Board members section.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

OC, I look forward to our conversation too.

Agreed very much on your last line too. There is ALPZA and the Mexican zoo association AZCARM that need and will step up the mark. A good number of species are very much likely candidates from Meso America and Mexico.

Also, the cross border cooperation needs to increase significantly between Mexico and US. Programs like white rhino and gorilla are not getting the support they need right now (the focus of many zoos in Mexico is on African species mind). Gorilla have been bred in the past here and yet despite a demonstrated need none have been forthcoming to restart any breeding program in Mexico since. Other example, white rhino breeding groups yet need to get off the ground again with lack of cows coming thru from up north (the reality has been that Mexican Zoos like Guadalajara, Morelia and Puebla did breed successfully and continuously long before breeding success in US zoos got more regular. These beside. the existing exchange programs for e.g. California condor and Mexican wolf where this does happen ...

BTW: WAZA has to become more inclusive there as currently half the world is in Category III. Just check the Board members section.

For the reasons I've already described I personally find the inordinate focus on African or Asian species in Mexico and wider Latin America (big problem in Brazil too in my opinion) quite an unfortunate tendency. However, I do agree with you that much more could be done in terms of improving cross border cooperation.

I can't see any male gorillas coming to Guadalajara anytime soon which is quite unfortunate IMO. Especially considering the females kept there have been without a male for over a decade now and that they possess valuable genes.

White rhinos might be a bit easier though admittedly I really do wonder about whether this is really even necessary considering the status of the species and it's prevalence / ubiquity in zoos worldwide.

Very true, the crossborder cooperation in terms of species that historically ranged across both territories like the Mexican wolf and California condor at Chapultepec is much better. There is a fairly regular exchange of information and expertise between several zoos in US and Chapultepec (and to a lesser extent the other two Mexico city zoos) and has been some assistance with capacity building and training of Mexican colleagues from US institutions.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Re exotics: The Guadalajara females are now in their early 30's. The Chapultepec silverback that passed on in early 2010's was widely publicised.

Given that part of Mexico is semi arid / not tropical forest habitat, I think the African focus some zoos have like Puebla is fine. Admittedly, more could be done for local species..., but do not forget that many zoos take in rescues from Profepa - and this - for lack of a better word - can be a drain on new development.

Re cooperation: a lot hangs on personal contacts between zoos in Texas, Arizona/New Mexico and California

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Re exotics: The Guadalajara females are now in their early 30's. The Chapultepec silverback that passed on in early 2010's was widely publicised.

Given that part of Mexico is semi arid / not tropical forest habitat, I think the African focus some zoos have like Puebla is fine. Admittedly, more could be done for local species..., but do not forget that many zoos take in rescues from Profepa - and this - for lack of a better word - can be a drain on new development.

Re cooperation: a lot hangs on personal contacts between zoos in Texas, Arizona/New Mexico and California

Yes , poor old Bantu , I remember him well and he is greatly missed by everyone at Chapultepec.

I think that attempts to bring in a male to sire young with Chencha and Faustina are sort of doomed because of several reasons that pretty much all come down to insurmountable levels of bureaucracy. A very sad situation indeed and one that seemingly has no solution.

Oh I agree that zoos like Africam Safari do some valuable rescue work but I just think that the work that they do with native species like the Taylor's salamander, jaguar and Mexican wolf is much more valuable and interesting.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Oh I agree that zoos like Africam Safari do some valuable rescue work but I just think that the work that they do with native species like the Taylor's salamander, jaguar and Mexican wolf is much more valuable and interesting.

Do they have a captive program for the salamander? I've never known if any Mexican Ambystoma are in captive breeding programs besides andersoni, dumerilii, and of course Axolotl.

~Thylo

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Do they have a captive program for the salamander? I've never known if any Mexican Ambystoma are in captive breeding programs besides andersoni, dumerilii, and of course Axolotl.

~Thylo

Yes , I believe they do and they also do in-situ conservation research and environmental education for rural communities that live around the laguna Alchichica. As far as I remember they are funded and supported in their efforts mainly by the ZSL EDGE species programe.

Chapultepec zoo is probably the zoo in Mexico that is most involved in driving the conservation of many of the Ambystoma species forward though and particularly my former colleague Dr Erika Servin Zamora who is an expert in their conservation.

 

[Jonas]

Ok Look forward to hearing from you Kifaru !

Honestly I have no idea about the situation with the brown hyena but I do hope that it is not as dire as it is for many species.

I think that the fact that Mexico has comparatively more institutions than most countries that hold the species (I could have never predicted this would be the case , very surreal ) is curious and presents some interesting possibilities / opportunities.

Perhaps Mexican institutions could even eventually take an important or even a leading role in captive breeding of the species , right ? It could happen and anything is possible.

That said , I do think (and have done for many years) that zoos in Mexico (and in wider Latin America for that matter) have enough to do in terms of ex-situ captive breeding programes for native and endemic species which should be the priority IMO (particularly as Mexico has the highest amount of mammal biodiversity in the world).

really?

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

really?

Really what ? Sorry , I dont follow what you mean.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Do they have a captive program for the salamander? I've never known if any Mexican Ambystoma are in captive breeding programs besides andersoni, dumerilii, and of course Axolotl.

~Thylo

ThylacineAlive I think you might find this podcast from ZSL's EDGE of existence programe quite interesting. The episode is about the Taylors salamander and Africam safaris role in its conservation.

Episode 4 - Alfredo Hernandez and the Taylor's salamander by The ZSL EDGE of Existence Podcast • A podcast on Anchor

 

[David Matos Mendes]

For the reasons I've already described I personally find the inordinate focus on African or Asian species in Mexico and wider Latin America (big problem in Brazil too in my opinion) quite an unfortunate tendency. However, I do agree with you that much more could be done in terms of improving cross border cooperation.

I can't see any male gorillas coming to Guadalajara anytime soon which is quite unfortunate IMO. Especially considering the females kept there have been without a male for over a decade now and that they possess valuable genes.

White rhinos might be a bit easier though admittedly I really do wonder about whether this is really even necessary considering the status of the species and it's prevalence / ubiquity in zoos worldwide.

Very true, the crossborder cooperation in terms of species that historically ranged across both territories like the Mexican wolf and California condor at Chapultepec is much better. There is a fairly regular exchange of information and expertise between several zoos in US and Chapultepec (and to a lesser extent the other two Mexico city zoos) and has been some assistance with capacity building and training of Mexican colleagues from US institutions.

Geographically, transfering gorillas from the US to MX would come more in hand, but I think it would be also interesting if BH zoo sent one of the three male gorillas born here to GDL in the future, once both institutions are part of ALPZA, it would be great to have this cooperation, and help in the gorilla conservation in L. america. I just don't know how Belo Horizonte zoo's contracts with Howletts (the providers of the reproductive females) are running nowadays, but if transferences of the offspring are authorized, I consider this being a good alternative, having in mind the female gorillas up there in Mexico might get too old for reproduction if nothing is done in the following years.
Despite that, I'm afraid BH zoo's plans for now will be more focused in starting the construction of another exhibit to house the three male baby gorillas when they become adult, probably to start one more reproductive group inside the own zoo in the future. Even so, when the all the males become adult, there will be no way for them to reproduce if they are all in the same exhibit, so the zoo will need to transfer at least two of them anytime in the future, and I hope it happens in partnership with an institution like Guadalajara.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Geographically, transfering gorillas from the US to MX would come more in hand, but I think it would be also interesting if BH zoo sent one of the three male gorillas born here to GDL in the future, once both institutions are part of ALPZA, it would be great to have this cooperation, and help in the gorilla conservation in L. america. I just don't know how Belo Horizonte zoo's contracts with Howletts (the providers of the reproductive females) are running nowadays, but if transferences of the offspring are authorized, I consider this being a good alternative, having in mind the female gorillas up there in Mexico might get too old for reproduction if nothing is done in the following years.
Despite that, I'm afraid BH zoo's plans for now will be more focused in starting the construction of another exhibit to house the three male baby gorillas when they become adult, probably to start one more reproductive group inside the own zoo in the future. Even so, when the all the males become adult, there will be no way for them to reproduce if they are all in the same exhibit, so the zoo will need to transfer at least two of them anytime in the future, and I hope it happens in partnership with an institution like Guadalajara.

Sadly I would think that Faustina and Chencha would be beyond reproductive age by the time those male gorillas are mature enough to breed and it is probably unlikely that zoos in the USA would send gorillas down to Mexico.

Also, Howletts / Aspinall foundation seem to be keen on reintroducing their gorillas back to the wild so I think ultimately the females at Guadalajara are sort of doomed to be without males or to breed which is rather sad in some ways (but then again perhaps GDL could use that enclosure for endangered Mexican or Central American primates?).

 

[David Matos Mendes]

Sadly I would think that Faustina and Chencha would be beyond reproductive age by the time those male gorillas are mature enough to breed and it is probably unlikely that zoos in the USA would send gorillas down to Mexico.

Also, Howletts / Aspinall foundation seem to be keen on reintroducing their gorillas back to the wild so I think ultimately the females at Guadalajara are sort of doomed to be without males or to breed which is rather sad in some ways (but then again perhaps GDL could use that enclosure for endangered Mexican or Central American primates?).

Just wondering, a possible option would be bringing Chencha and Faustina to Minas Gerais, so they could join the present group at BH, although I think this might never happen, It would be an alternative for not letting them get too old to make their genetics go on.

I mentioned howletts because Imbi and Lou lou came from their hands, so if I'm not wrong, they control what happens to the babies here in BH. Do you think there's a real possibility of reintroducing the gorillas born here to the wild?

Returning to Mexico issues, it would be definitely a nice idea to use the present gorilla exhibit to house a native species in case the present inhabitants are transfered or when they pass away (wich I really hope that doesn't happen soon. It would be very sad to see them dying with no other contact with a real gorilla group).

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Just wondering, a possible option would be bringing Chencha and Faustina to Minas Gerais, so they could join the present group at BH, although I think this might never happen, It would be an alternative for not letting them get too old to make their genetics go on.

I mentioned howletts because Imbi and Lou lou came from their hands, so if I'm not wrong, they control what happens to the babies here in BH. Do you think there's a real possibility of reintroducing the gorillas born here to the wild?

Returning to Mexico issues, it would be definitely a nice idea to use the present gorilla exhibit to house a native species in case the present inhabitants are transfered or when they pass away (wich I really hope that doesn't happen soon. It would be very sad to see them dying with no other contact with a real gorilla group).

I have no idea about the possibility of the Mexican gorillas heading to Brazil but I would be inclined to think that GDL would be reluctant to do this and they would sorely miss their gorillas for both sentimental and practical reasons (they are one of the top attractions at the zoo).

I think it would also be extremely hard to introduce and integrate the two Mexican gorillas to the Brazilian breeding group. This mother and daughter have been alone with only eachother and the other daughter who is fairly recently deceased for a long time and without males since the death of the silverback Chato in the late 2000's.

I can't say I know much about gorilla social dynamics in captivity or indeed the wild but I think it is a given that it would be a delicate situation and I'm not sure that the Brazilian group would respond favourably to them. It could be very tricky to manage this and several things could go very wrong.

About the Aspinall park's reintroduction program, I can't really comment on it, other than I'm finding out more about it from my reading. My overall impression is that they seem very serious about their effort to send their gorillas back to Central Africa. However, I don't know what that this would imply for the gorillas born at BH or the females that originally came from Howlett's.

 

[David Matos Mendes]

I have no idea about the possibility of the Mexican gorillas heading to Brazil but I would be inclined to think that GDL would be reluctant to do this and they would sorely miss their gorillas for both sentimental and practical reasons (they are one of the top attractions at the zoo).

I think it would also be extremely hard to introduce and integrate the two Mexican gorillas to the Brazilian breeding group. This mother and daughter have been alone with only eachother and the other daughter who is fairly recently deceased for a long time and without males since the death of the silverback Chato in the late 2000's. I can't say I know much about gorilla social dynamics in captivity or indeed the wild but I think it is a given that it would be a delicate situation and I'm not sure that the Brazilian group would respond favourably to them and several things could go very wrong.

About the Aspinall park's reintroduction program, I can't really comment on it, other than I'm finding out more about it from my reading. My overall impression is that they seem very serious about their effort to send their gorillas back to Central Africa. I don't know what that this would imply for the gorillas born at BH or the females that originally came from Howlett's though.

Yes, I definitely don't think Guadalajara zoo would be in favor of sending their gorillas away. For conservation it would be probably good (although, as you said, they would maybe be hard to introduce to the group in BH). Anyway, it seems even more impossible when we remember Guadalajara and BH never made any contact for transference in the time we had a lone male (Idi) here, and they already had the females, so, if nothing happened in the time both institutions needed, I definitely don't think it would happen now, unfortunately.

I'm asking someone from BH's crew next week when I go there about the situation of the destiny of the babies born there...

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Yes, I definitely don't think Guadalajara zoo would be in favor of sending their gorillas away. For conservation it would be probably good (although, as you said, they would maybe be hard to introduce to the group in BH). Anyway, it seems even more impossible when we remember Guadalajara and BH never made any contact for transference in the time we had a lone male (Idi) here, and they already had the females, so, if nothing happened in the time both institutions needed, I definitely don't think it would happen now, unfortunately.

I'm asking someone from BH's crew next week when I go there about the situation of the destiny of the babies born there...

There are some connections for sure between Brazilian and Mexican zoos and particularly with Chapultepec and several institutions like SP and Brasilia zoos. I know that staff of all these institutions have occasional sporadic contact / correspondence with eachother. However, I don't think these Mexico-Brazil links are as strong as with other countries and they could do with being reinforced or strengthened.

I might be wrong of course but I really don't think there would be any chance of gorillas being sent from either country to the other in the near or distant future.

 

[David Matos Mendes]

There are some connections for sure between Brazilian and Mexican zoos and particularly with Chapultepec and several institutions like SP and Brasilia zoos as I know staff have occasional sporadic contact / correspondence with eachother.

However, I don't think these Mexico-Brazil links are as strong as with other countries and they could do with being reinforced or strengthened.

I don't think there is any chance of gorillas being sent from either country to the other.

Yeah, I agree... The own transference of gorillas from Howletts to BH was already a surprise. It lets me very happy everything went well though, and I think it was also good to increase the international reputation of brazilian zoos in general. After all, I hope we have some more surprises related to this gorilla issue in the future.

 

[carlos55]

According to mexican law , primates May only be imported or exported For scientific research, so movíng the Guadalajara gorilas is not likely.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Yeah, I agree... The own transference of gorillas from Howletts to BH was already a surprise. It lets me very happy everything went well though, and I think it was also good to increase the international reputation of brazilian zoos in general. After all, I hope we have some more surprises related to this gorilla issue in the future.

I think there will probably be further births in the gorilla group in BH zoo for sure in the future.

I also definitely think that exotic species kept within Brazilian zoos will continue to be bred (not sure how I feel about this really though) and exhibited to the public.

 

[Pertinax]

I can't say I know much about gorilla social dynamics in captivity or indeed the wild but I think it is a given that it would be a delicate situation and I'm not sure that the Brazilian group would respond favourably to them. It could be very tricky to manage this and several things could go very wrong.

About the Aspinall park's reintroduction program, I can't really comment on it, other than I'm finding out more about it from my reading. My overall impression is that they seem very serious about their effort to send their gorillas back to Central Africa. However, I don't know what that this would imply for the gorillas born at BH or the females that originally came from Howlett's.

The Silverback/male would almost certainly accept them into his group. But how happy the existing females would be is another question, and there might well be conflict. But it seems a hypothetical scenario anyway. I think any further gorilla reintroductions from Howletts/PL parks would not affect the gorillas from them that are already in BH. Howletts have a number of gorillas that have been sent to other zoos around the world and I think those would not be involved in further moves either.

From your reading have you found any talk of sending more gorillas from their two parks in Kent back to Africa?