How old is the Malayan tapir? Would it not be best to send it to the North Americas or Europe?
BioParque do Rio RioZoo news
- Thread starter devilfish
- Start date
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
It is almost definitely long gone and dead but if it was still around then I would say that Europe or North America would certainly be a better option, yes.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
*That is to say that if our long dead tapir was still alive it would be better placed within a US or European zoo for captive breeding purposes and because zoos within Latin America must arguably focus on native Tapirus species like the Baird's, mountain and lowland tapirs.
Like @Onychorhynchus coronatus said, the individual surely died a long ago; and if it was still there, it would be already a pretty old animal, very used to his place and not capable to breed anymore, so I would see no sense in sending it to EU or USA.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yeah good point actually and one that I missed in my last comment, if it wasn't a reproductively viable individual it probably wouldn't be able to contribute to captive breeding anyway.
Yeah, and there are many animals in similar situation in brazilian zoos nowadays, such as tigers, elephants, orangutans, etc, that are either too old or are hybrid individuals, that, if didn't presented these "problems", would be totally worth to be sent to places that actually would breed them for conservation. Besides that, even an animal that would breed in an old age, wouldn't be very happy to leave a place were he always lived, and might have problems for adaptation somewhere else.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.
I've always thought these species should be slowly phased out anyway and be gradually replaced by native species.
Also agree with you about not moving elderly individuals of a species between zoos and definitely not across continents, far too much stress for an animal and for what ?
I found some pictures on Facebook, from October 2015. They show a souther-pig-tailed macaque, and two baboons (one being Chack and another being from an unknown species, I think it's a yellow baboon). They were taken by André Sebastião, a man who frequently visited the zoo until it started its works.
I'd recommend visiting his page on Facebook and his blog. They were both created because he thought the zoo's former website was very incomplete.
Entrar no Facebook
Rio zoo
Entrar no Facebook
Rio zoo
I found some pictures on Facebook, from October 2015. They show a souther-pig-tailed macaque, and two baboons (one being Chack and another being from an unknown species, I think it's a yellow baboon). They were taken by André Sebastião, a man who frequently visited the zoo until it started its works.
I've heard about this guy you mentioned. He's indeed a big fan of Riozoo; he answers almost every single comment in the zoo's instagram and facebook, especially if it's from an anti zoo person
Nice to see these pictures. The macaque is no longer part of the zoo's collection, right? I've been thinking about the baboons permanence at the zoo too, and I tend to think they will be phased out as well, due to the new population plan that we previously mentioned.
I don't think the zoo still holds any macaques, but if they do, I'd say the only ones kept there are the rhesus ones. And I don't think they plan to phase out the baboons, as there will be a whole new primate section and they might get some specimens to make companion for the two already in Rio. About André, I do appreciate his work. If it wasn't for him, I'd never find the old video from the 1950's about the zoo.I've heard about this guy you mentioned. He's indeed a big fan of Riozoo; he answers almost every single comment in the zoo's instagram and facebook, especially if it's from an anti zoo person
Nice to see these pictures. The macaque is no longer part of the zoo's collection, right? I've been thinking about the baboons permanence at the zoo too, and I tend to think they will be phased out as well, due to the new population plan that we previously mentioned.
Last edited:
I thought they would keep only chimps and orangs as exotics, but if they continue keeping the baboons, they might import more individuals from Africa, once they're already gonna bring many animals from some country in there.
And yes, André's work is pretty nice. He's surely a passionate for the zoo and it's animals.
I have just remembered that André also has an Instagram profile dedicated to the zoo, where he posts some pictures:
https://www.instagram.com/fotosriozoo/
https://www.instagram.com/fotosriozoo/
I'm curious about how the zoo deals with him. Does he have authorization to share content about the institution in sites, facebook, etc? It's nice that he is so interested and dedicated, but a site with the name of the zoo and pages in social media only for sharing stuff about the zoo would not be legal, even more now that it's a private institution...
I think they will still allow him to take pictures and show the zoo's progress, because it is promoting the zoo in many ways and since it's a private institution, due to its dependance of profit from people who are users of their services (in that case, visiting the zoo), every single piece of positive propanga will probably be welcomed.
Yeah, I understand what you mean, but being controversial institutions, zoos can be misunderstanded in many ways if something is published in a slightly wrong way; that's why zoos have their own marketing/propaganda crew to publish their official information. But yes, this guy seems to know what he's doing; he probably understands enough about the zoo to spread things the right way. Hope he continues keeping up with true and accurate informations to be able to keep passing quality content.
I agree that this is particularly true for zoos in Latino nations. The same phenomenon is rife in countries like Espagna and Italia. However, it is in my view the failure by the general public and some of the zoos to evolve their rationale // their design. In reality, this very anti sentiment is actually more like assisted prevention of major upgrades, renovations and rebuilding of zoos to take place / go forward.
On the part of the SZB zoos, what is required is to raise the bars of maintaining wild animals in zoos in Brasil and create an environment through workshops and capacity building to improve zoo designs in general (from "cage/chain link" to natural nature replicating habitats). RioZoo underlines that this can be done re-using (cradle to cradle) of old structures into new modern, appealing and attractive zoo exhibits and public areas.
Second subject matter: Where you observed the problematic keeping of orang utan, tiger, elephant and great ape, it has as much to do with low numbers, the sometimes hybrid origin of some individuals (am I right in saying that the phenomenon of white lions and white tigers or hybrid Bengal is still rife) or that their exhibits are antiquated (beyond relief).
I might agree on most, ... however in the case of great apes, it requires a determination on behalf of SZB to set up country-wide collection planning where zoos are directed to have ex situ conservation breeding programs for designated exotic species (and not at random or short supply / difficult to obtain exotic species) as well as native or South American species in need of captive programs.
Looking at the 2015 animal collection there are many local native species on the list that are in non-breeding groups or haphazard singletons or many species without any idea what they are supposed to bring over to the general public or their rationale for being kept in inadequate numbers. In particular, this is true for the primates of Brasil where many species require captive programs and are in dire straits: a variety of tamarins, marmosets, spider and howler and capuchin monkeys ... to name but a few. The new look RioZoo Bioparco as well as a good number of the major and smaller zoos in Brasil need to replicate this first and foremost, right?
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
That is correct Kifaru and very well said.
This is a big problem in terms of what needs to be done for captive programes for native species in zoos here.
As I've said many times on this forum a focus on exotics in Latin American zoos can often come at the expense of either interest or even maintenance of native species by these institutions. This has to stop and it has to be challenged and any zoo doing that really needs to put their priorities in order.
This is why I believe that it is ultimately a good idea that exotic African, Asian, North American European and Australasian species are gradually phased out through non-breeding. The space that is left as they die out naturally in terms of enclosures could then be given over to native species and resources and attention can be allocated similarly.
Moreover, this is also why I do not think it is at all constructive for zoos in Brazil or elsewhere in the region to be importing elephants, gorillas, orangutan, tiger etc.
Cooperation and exchange of South or Central American or Mexican species for ex-situ conservation purposes is a different matter entirely and I believe this is both justified and ultimately the right way forward.
Last edited:
@OC, I am not in favour of complete dismantling of exotic species in Brasilian zoos. I am simply underlining that the SZB and zoo community in Brasil need to make informed choices. I would favour that species from North America and Eurasia are phased out in favour of more tropical exotics (and in the latter case, an informed choice for designated species ..., say gorilla tick box, chimpanzee phase out, orang utan (will be through natural attrition I believe as the S.American population in general has never been that large), Asiatic elephants (I believe the population is elderly right, so this will also diminish through attrition), tigers (there is a case for large South American Carnivora like jaguar and puma to have more captive spaces and facilities, but I would not recommend total phase out, only maintain one subspecies of pure-bred origins - not the hybrid/crossbreeds white tiger).
There is nothing wrong in well thought out displays and exhibits for African or Asian tropical species in Brasilian and South American zoos for that matter, it needs to be informed choice and better improved exhibits and eco displays! This, to give the general public also a perspective beyond its own borders and with a good selection of local and South American species of conservation concern or educational value zoos in Brasil (and ALPZA region for South America) would be doing a great job for ex situ conservation and with strong linkages to in situ with support and active participation in local recovery and species restoration programs ... the country would be well on its way to fundamentally change the narrative on zoos in general and why and how important they are for in situ conservation (which is true of any other Continent and zoogeographical region with a zoo association national or transnational).
There is nothing wrong in well thought out displays and exhibits for African or Asian tropical species in Brasilian and South American zoos for that matter, it needs to be informed choice and better improved exhibits and eco displays! This, to give the general public also a perspective beyond its own borders and with a good selection of local and South American species of conservation concern or educational value zoos in Brasil (and ALPZA region for South America) would be doing a great job for ex situ conservation and with strong linkages to in situ with support and active participation in local recovery and species restoration programs ... the country would be well on its way to fundamentally change the narrative on zoos in general and why and how important they are for in situ conservation (which is true of any other Continent and zoogeographical region with a zoo association national or transnational).
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Regarding Asiatic (and African) elephants, yes, these are all elderly animals. As with the death of Raisa recently at the Sorocaba zoo these animals will all eventually pass away and when this happens space and resources may be freed up.
In regards to tigers, the only subspecies that I know that are definitely purebred was the old Sumatran tiger at Chapultepec zoo in Mexico who has now passed away if I'm not mistaken and Siberian tigers held by a few other Mexican collections (El Nido for example). There are apparently Siberian tigers also in Brazilian zoos but I am a little cynical as to whether these are purebred individuals.
The rest held by zoos are supposedly "tigres de Bengala" but I am sure that these are invariably all "zoomix" tigers and therefore absolutely useless for conservation purposes so I don't know why they are even being bred or kept for that matter.
In terms of chimpanzees, yes, I believe they must be phased out too as they are not useful for any kind of ex-situ conservation and as I've said before they are more trouble than they are worth. However, there are unfortunately zoos that are still breeding them in this area of the world.
Similarly with orangutangs, many of these are hybrids anyway, there are apparently Bornean orangutangs out there held by zoos but a good number of these are ageing individuals which like the elephants will eventually pass away and free up much needed space and resources.
The gorillas are a bit of a special case, as the population in Mexico (unless something is done) will eventually die out naturally anyway without breeding. The only others are at Belo Horizonte zoo and seeing as they have in recent years bred them and have succeeded in forming a breeding group I suppose it could be argued that this should continue (though never at the expense of native primate species).
Last edited: