Mixed species exhibit with Chimpanzees?

[Philipine eagle]

I see, I've seen pictures of her in the gallery and she is a very distinctive looking animal indeed.

Ok... again, I am still not understanding where this subject of the gorilla being raised by chimpanzees came from or what exactly you mean by this.

Are you saying that this is a hypothesis of yours or that the zoo actually confirmed that this occurred in this animals early life in the correspondence they exchanged with you ?

Or if not then where did the chimp hypothesis come from ?

Certainly not. I'm saying it's an explanation which has been suggested in the past on local (Dutch or Flemish) forums. The zoo did not confirmed this, not in the personal correspondence I had nor, as far as I know, on other occasions.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Certainly not. I'm saying it's an explanation which has been suggested in the past on local (Dutch or Flemish) forums. The zoo did not confirmed this, not in the personal correspondence I had nor, as far as I know, on other occasions.

Well, its an interesting hypothesis but I don't know how it could be the case if the zoo hasn't specifically stated that they kept these great apes in this kind of a setup.

I don't know for sure but I think this could be a behaviour that purely arises in captivity with gorillas.

At least I don't think there have been any reports from field studies of gorillas preying upon other primate species as has been observed with long term field studies of chimps hunting colobus, guenons, galagos, duiker, bushpigs and humans or orangutangs hunting lorises or nestling birds.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I very much doubt Amohoro at Antwerp was ever 'raised by Chimpanzees'- there might be a possibility she had some Chimpanzee companionship in early captivity in Africa perhaps- but she would never have learned to hunt monkeys that way, she would have had to watch adult chimps hunting. We know other gorillas have killed monkeys in other zoos too, so I think more likely it was just chance if she was the culprit that killed the Antwerp monkeys. I think Valencia had the same mix- gorilla and Hamlyn monkeys at one stage and again it probably failed for similar reasons. Dreadful that rare species like Hamlyn's have been used in these past mixes but hopefully not any more.

I think Amahoro's 'intense' look is more likely just her species' appearance rather than an individual trait resulting from her past background.

Thank you for your comment @Pertinax !

I am also cynical towards the idea about "Amohoro" having been raised by chimpanzees.

Out of curiosity, what do you think drives this aggressive behaviour towards monkeys by captive gorillas within mixed species enclosures ?

Yes, I think you could be right that it is just the species appearance and my own wild hypothesis / inference.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

This is from a paper called "Talapoin monkeys Miopithecus spp in European zoos: status and management in mixed-species exhibits" which makes specific mention of incidence of the agonistic behaviour by talapoin monkeys towards gorillas which shared the same enclosure at Valencia:

"Additionally, the other species in the enclosure are possibly regarded by the talapoins as ‘common enemies’, which could strengthen group cohesion among these <<. This bachelor group has been seen successfully and cooperatively chasing a 6 year-old < Western lowland gorilla Gorilla gorilla gorilla from the talapoins’ indoor communal sleeping box when the gorilla unexpectedly entered the talapoin area of the shared primate holding space."

I wonder if in the case of "Amohoro" and other cases of gorillas which killed guenons and other monkey species which shared their enclosure something like this could have happened ?

Perhaps agonistic behaviour was displayed by the monkeys towards the gorilla which then reacted violently in response ?

 

[Zoovolunteer]

The first example is not a mixed species exhibit proper though is it ? I mean it is just a rotation exhibit.

Ok, thats quite interesting about the hybrids, purely anthropogenic though as it would never occur in the wild with the geographical barriers of the rivers that separate the species.

There was natural hybridization of chimpanzee and bonobo in the past though - central chimpanzees carry a small percentage of bonobo ancestry (similar to non-African modern humans and Neandertahls + Denisovans): Chimps and bonobos had flings—and swapped genes—in the past

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

There was natural hybridization of chimpanzee and bonobo in the past though - central chimpanzees carry a small percentage of bonobo ancestry (similar to non-African modern humans and Neandertahls + Denisovans): Chimps and bonobos had flings—and swapped genes—in the past

Wow ! Thank you for sharing @Zoovolunteer !

I had no idea about this, this is very interesting and I'll read this with interest.

I always assumed that the geographical barriers of rivers between the two species would have prevented hybridization but evidently it did occur.

 

[JT]

I think, regarding gorillas and monkeys, these gorillas have never seen any other species and when confronted with them they probably just get territorial and protective as gorillas are already known to be. I think it’s also important to consider that they’re naturally a lot bigger and stronger.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I think, regarding gorillas and monkeys, these gorillas have never seen any other species and when confronted with them they probably just get territorial and protective as gorillas are already known to be. I think it’s also important to consider that they’re naturally a lot bigger and stronger.

Yes, but I don't think agonistic behaviour occurs immediately after being introduced to eachother, I see what you mean, but the thing is that these apes would already be habituated to living alongside these monkeys for periods of time in the mixed-species exhibit.

For whatever reason (and I would be interested to find out if there are any theories for why this happens) an individual gorilla then like "Amohoro" then suddenly seemingly out of nowhere attacks and kills a monkey.

 

[Pertinax]

Yes, but I don't think agonistic behaviour occurs immediately after being introduced to eachother, I see what you mean, but the thing is that these apes would already be habituated to living alongside these monkeys for periods of time in the mixed-species exhibit.

For whatever reason (and I would be interested to find out if there are any theories for why this happens) an individual gorilla then like "Amohoro" then suddenly seemingly out of nowhere attacks and kills a monkey.

Boredom, or some other redirected behaviour perhaps? In captivity there is a lot of 'spare time' not available in the wild. And remember in the wild these species don't naturally exist in close contact. In some cases they may inhabit the same forests, but the monkeys are usually up in the canopy, and the gorillas far below. In captivity they are forced into much closer contact. Its possible adult gorillas watch the monkeys right from the initial mixing, but that nothing happens until suddenly there is the chance to catch one, maybe months later.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Boredom, or some other redirected behaviour perhaps? In captivity there is a lot of 'spare time' not available in the wild. And remember in the wild these species don't naturally exist in close contact. In some cases they may inhabit the same forests, but the monkeys are usually up in the canopy, and the gorillas far below. In captivity they are forced into much closer contact. Its possible adult gorillas watch the monkeys right from the initial mixing, but that nothing happens until suddenly there is the chance to catch one, maybe months later.

Yes, maybe you are right, but of the explanations you've given I tend to think that the unnatural close proximity in enclosures is probably the likeliest explanation.

Out of curiosity, do you know if there are any reports of gorillas killing monkeys or other primates in the wild ?

 

[PossumRoach]

Kobe Oji Zoo has kept their gorilla Zark with a female chimpanzee named Lily. From what I can tell by the blog, Lily was given to Zark as a companion because he got stressed out after getting alone.

スタッフBLOG｜神戸市立王子動物園

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes, maybe you are right, but of the explanations you've given I tend to think that the unnatural close proximity in enclosures is probably the likeliest explanation.

Out of curiosity, do you know if there are any reports of gorillas killing monkeys or other primates in the wild ?

DNA from monkeys and Duiker were found in the faeces of Western lowland gorillas, suggesting they form an occasional component of their diet: First Proof Gorillas Eat Monkeys?

The same study acknowledged it may have come from ants eating the carcasses; and then being consumed by the gorillas in turn, however - I’d be interested to know either way!

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

DNA from monkeys and Duiker were found in the faeces of Western lowland gorillas, suggesting they form an occasional component of their diet: First Proof Gorillas Eat Monkeys?

The same study acknowledged it may have come from ants eating the carcasses; and then being consumed by the gorillas in turn, however - I’d be interested to know either way!

Thanks for sharing @Zoofan15 ! This is really interesting stuff !

As the study does acknowledge though there could be other explanations for the presence of this DNA.

I would imagine that conculsive proof would only be obtained from observation of this behaviour during field studies.

 

[Azamat Shackleford]

I also just don't see the point with mixing chimps with other species either considering that they seem to have interesting values in their own right.

I just wonder why the chimp-jackal mixed exhibit at Taronga was even approved in the first place...

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I also just don't see the point with mixing chimps with other species either considering that they seem to have interesting values in their own right.

I just wonder why the chimp-jackal mixed exhibit at Taronga was even approved in the first place...

Maybe it was just done on a whim ?

I can't imagine any serious person with any knowledge of chimps actually thinking that this would be a workable set-up.

It seems like it was more like either a very callous or absent minded experiment like those at South Lakes zoo.

 

[Zoofan15]

I just wonder why the chimp-jackal mixed exhibit at Taronga was even approved in the first place...

Unlike the Common chimpanzee/Patas monkey exhibit, which was stupidity personified; I’m guessing they believed neither species would bother the other - similar to the Southern white rhinoceros/Cheetah exhibits you see.

Two jackals were hardly a pack, but another danger in that experiment was an infant chimpanzee wandering off from it’s mother (as they invariably do) and falling prey to the jackals.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Unlike the Common chimpanzee/Patas monkey exhibit, which was stupidity personified; I’m guessing they believed neither species would bother the other - similar to the Southern white rhinoceros/Cheetah exhibits you see.

Two jackals were hardly a pack, but another danger in that experiment was an infant chimpanzee wandering off from it’s mother (as they invariably do) and falling prey to the jackals.

But even still don't you think it was a bit strange that they didn't anticipate that the chimpanzees would behave violently towards the jackals ?

 

[Zoofan15]

But even still don't you think it was a bit strange that they didn't anticipate that the chimpanzees would behave violently towards the jackals ?

100%. Even ignoring the obvious incidents that were likely to occur e.g. the males detecting it as a threat to the troop or an over protective mother (one female almost ripped off the arm off an immigrant juvenile chimp); there were several adolescent males in the troop at the time, who would have been performing loud, aggressive displays the jackals could have been caught up in.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

100%. Even ignoring the obvious incidents that were likely to occur e.g. the males detecting it as a threat to the troop or an over protective mother (one female almost ripped off the arm off an immigrant juvenile chimp); there were several adolescent males in the troop at the time, who would have been performing loud, aggressive displays the jackals could have been caught up in.

It would be interesting to get the bottom of this, I mean I know it is quite a long time ago now but is it possible to know who made this decision ? or who the curator was at this particular time ?

 

[Zoofan15]

It would be interesting to get the bottom of this, I mean I know it is quite a long time ago now but is it possible to know who made this decision ? or who the curator was at this particular time ?

I can’t seem to find the curator/director of that time period. Sir Edward Hallstrom (chairman and honorary life director) died in 1970; and John Kelly took over in 1987 (he famously offered the parents of the keeper killed by the tiger in 1988 the opportunity to euthanise the tiger), but I know little about the interim director/directors sorry. I see from a search that John Kelly died in 2018.