animals we feel sorry for

C

Coquinguy

Well-Known Member
with all the talk about rigo i thought it might be interesting to know what animals people feels sorry for in australian zoos? this can be for a whole range of reasons-inadequate social groupings, bad enclosures, etc. im not talking about cruelty here, nor knocking the good work of zoos, jus tnominating some perceived flaws.
taronga zoo for example has a pair of rescued sun bears, who pace almost constantly despite being provided with an enriched enclosure, varied diet and feeding schedule, etc. but because they pace, and (the fact that they'd be dead anyway if they werent rescued) seems to illicit a negative and sympathetic focus from the public.
so i nominate...
the sun bears
burma the elephant at western plains zoo.
rigo the gorilla at melbourne
 
i should post that i can fully rationalise the decision to keep burma at wpz, by herself, lets call a spade a spade and say shes a basket case really. old, aggressive, cant be handled without protected contact, has lived alongside african elephants. on the other hand, the staff at WPZ do an amzing job keeping her enriched and active.
i just feel sorry for her
 
and if there are any lurkers from ZPB of nsw viewing this, do something about informing the public about the sun bears. i have seen dozens upon dozens of people turn away from those animals talking badly about the zoo and its duty of care.
the zoo should inform the public why the animals behave the way they do
 
Sunbears

My pick would be the sunbears at Wellington Zoo .
The enclosure is long and narrow , appears to be all concrete , and too small for solitary creatures . If you ever see them whenever the keeper is not around and doing the Sunbear Presentation , they always seem to be pacing .
Whether this is normal behaviour or not , I dont know . But the public seem to think that the bears are bored out of their brains . ( Perhaps thats why they have succeeded breeding ? )
 
i would say bears in general get a bad deal in zoos. i for one have always felt sorry for melbournes brown bears and by no means think enrichment alone is a substitute for such a small enclosure. for one sunbears love to climb and sleep high in the trees. their lifestyle doesn't particuarly lend itself to a good zoo exhibit. i think zoos need to get over the fear of having animals off display, or less likely to see and just encourage a good experience with the animals that the visitor DOES encounter.

we should by no means give up on displaying rare and shy species like sunbear - but i think zoos can do a better job of making the most of each species by letting them do what they do naturally more and somehow incorporating that into what people experience.

does that make sense?
 
totally, absolutely. i think taronga's kodiak bear exhibit, though, is well designed for the individuals it houses. the exhibit was custom built to house the zoos ageing bears, with heated rocks to reduce athritis, deep, soft substrate to encourage digging and reduce joint impact, etc. i also believe this exhibit can be succesfully re-adapted for sun bears by installing plenty of vertical/horizontal climbing structures.
on the issue of sun bears perth zoo's exhibit is probably the regions premier facility.
 
At basel, the sun bears are very similar to the ones at nigel's description at Wellington. They are always pacing and their claws are HUGELY overgrown.
 
at melbourne i feel pretty sorry for:

subsp. hybrid emp tamarin - kept solitary from the zoos purebreds.
the GL tamarins - cage is pathetically small
the CT tamarins - same as above
melbournes brown bears - very small enclosure.
melbournes seals - very small and VERY shallow pool.
melbournes baboons - arguably the worst enclosure left in any zoo in any major zoo in australia. very small, very concrete.
any ape who is unfortunate enough to have to live in the great ape grottoes.

and to a lesser extent most the inhabitants of the arboreal boardwalk. for the most part the enclosures are too small especially for the WC gibbons.

i suppose for the most part you'll see that enclosure size is a bit of an issue for me. for some reason we'd feel sorry for a dog kept in a tiny courtyard all day and never walked or allowed inside but not a coati in an exhibit exactly the same size. keeper-made "enrichment" is all very good and well and to the animals benefit - but lets lets be honest...

many zoos are often, to this day, outrageously stingy when it comes to animal space.
 
Writhedhornbill said:
At basel, the sun bears are very similar to the ones at nigel's description at Wellington. They are always pacing and their claws are HUGELY overgrown.
Click to expand...

No, their claws are NOT hugely overgrown. This is a common mistake. Sun and Sloth bears NATURALLY have very long claws designed for scooping out e.g. honey from bees nests(sun bear) or digging into Termite mounds(sloth Bear) I have even heard a VET on T.V. criticise a zoo for keeping sloth bears with 'overgrown claws'- that's ignorance on his part!

Re the situation of bears in captivity, both in Australasian zoos and elsewhere. They do tend to get a bad deal, or did in the past. Some modern enclosures are very good - Melbourne's Syrian Bear enclosure is an example, but they still can't offer the bears the huge distances they travel in the course of foraging etc, so even in captivity they still 'pace' Sun bears seem particularly stereotyped in this fashion. I've never understood why there was a general move to stop Polar Bears being kept in small enclosures in Zoos, but this didn't seem to extend to all the other bear species too...
 
patrick said:
at melbourne i feel pretty sorry for:melbournes brown bears - very small enclosure.
melbournes baboons - arguably the worst enclosure left in any zoo in any major zoo in australia. very small, very concrete.
keeper-made "enrichment" is all very good and well and to the animals benefit - but lets lets be honest...many zoos are often, to this day, outrageously stingy when it comes to animal space.
Click to expand...

A few responses to Pat's comments;

1. I'm interested you think Melbourne's Bear enclosure is small- from memory its one of the better ones I've seen, and relatively spacious too. There are still a lot of bad,cramped and dismal ones in those European zoos which haven't phased out bears altogether.
2. Baboons- agreed, for a major zoo such as Melbourne its amazing that those cages weren't a priority project for demolition years ago and it wouldn't be a very expensive undertaking. To have them STILL being used in 2007 is pretty wierd.
3. 'Keeper enrichment' often has to substitute for an expensive overhaul or extention in size of an animals quarters. Its a lot cheaper to add more ropes, swings, artificial termite mounds or feeding sites or whatever than the staggering cost of new, larger enclosures, in most cases keeper enrichment is the only realistic way of improving the animals' existence until that far-off day when something new can be built.
 
the reason why polar bears were phased out is (i think)...
1-for starters they are cute, and attracted the attention of animal liberationists, at a time (80s and 90s) when lets face it, practically all zoo animals, cute or ugly, were still living in crap eclosures &
2-the cost of creating an exhibit for polar bears that is good is huge. i mean, you cant do for pola rbears what rome zoo, for example, has done for brown bears without a massive difference in cost. youve got substrate issues, water clarity issues, temperature issues, it goes on and on
plus the fact that brown bears are alot more numerous in zoos than polar bears in regions, such as england, where they were phased out, that getting rid of polars was alot easier. the fact there wasnt alot of them, and the fact that they were proving difficult to breed, mad eit pretty easy.
 
just quickly, whilst were on melbourne zoo's bear exhibit, i dont think its that bad either, or that good. its one of those exhibits that will do for another 5-10 years whilst other exhibits more in need of a renovation can come first.
in england many safari parks and open range zoos keep brown and black bears, something that would be a good idea in australia if they werent being phased out. at woburn, you drive through a mixed species exhibit of black bears and grey wolves, which is quite exciting.
its true that in the wild bears do travel large distances, and they are so intelligent and therefore prone to stereotyping. but i think this can be turned around into a positive thing. with imagination, time and resources intelligent animals like bears can thrive in an enriched environment. taronga's bears are probably too old to be bothered pacing at all, but i know that in the case of the two kodiaks alot of effort goes into these animals...varied feeding routines, a variety of foods, enrichment, etc. they also have a good view out of the exhibit too, which i imagine a bear would find stimulating.
i look forward to the day that the sun bears can live in this exhibit, with soaring limbs of ironbarks, horizontal beams and platforms, enrichment devices and feeders up in the trees and hammocks. on the ground, the zoo could trial a termite mound feeder, and an artificial log with feeders built into it!
but before any of that bethel and cythia have to kick the bucket!
 
The main reason that all zoos in this region agreed not to display polar bears was almost entirely due to the temperature issues. It was felt that polar bears sufferred very much from the heat (and other issues), in all of the exhibits that had held polar bears, up until the time the decision was made.

The second reason was that there didn't seem much point in using large amounts of zoo resources to display a species where there was limited space for any offspring that might have been born, and the region decided to focus on south-east asian bear species (sun bears) instead.

Sea World, who have subsequently imported and displayed polar bears, have built an exhibit that controls the air and water temperature to suit the species' needs, and in an world-class exhibit that works really well for the animals. Granted, it does not provide anywhere near the amount of space that polar bears would use in the wild, but then we are talking about a metropolitan zoo. It's certainly one of the best polar bear exhibits I've ever seen.
 
i was talking about english zoos, i know off-topic, but inresponse to grants posts.
as far as polar bear exhibits in australia go, well, you really just said it all
 
do seaworld's bears stereotype? whenever i see them, granted it son tv, they are ALWAYS active, doing stuff. and animal welfare is surprisingly quiet on the issue. could this be that seaworld is commited to giving this species loads of enrichment and a good habitat, and that the animals are doing well? if seaworld can do it for polars, which are a challenging species, then other zoos can no doubt do a bette rjob at keeping sunnies and browns
 
Whilst I'm of course, not speaking on behalf of Sea World, my experience with the Polar Bear Shores facility has always shown that there are more than enough staff to provide continual enrichment throught the day (and night), and to observe that the animals are not in any way displaying stereotypic behaviour.

Enrichment in the form of hiding food in the exhibit (in many different places, which are changed regularly); reducing and increasing temperature; misting the exhibit, and having "rain" periods in the exhibit, with chilled water and mist; large plastic drums and other toys in the water; and conditioning work with the animals is provided on a regular basis.

I agree with glyn's comment about the animals being active, and this is not just footage used on TV. I've visited Sea World on many occasions, and the animals are always active. I've never seen any behaviour in those bears that I would consider to be the result of boredom, or husbandry or exhibit-related.

Whilst I agree with other comments in this thread about bears generally being housed in inferior conditions in most zoos, I certainly don't think this is the case at Sea World, where the exhibit gets a big thumbs up from me!
 
agreed - i'v never been to seaworld but from what i have heard oevre and over again -its one of teh best in the world.

grant, to answer your question on why i dislike mebournes brown bear exhibit - the simple answer is that its tiny. also i've read the pool was created too deep so the bears can't catch fish that get put it it - its now half empty (i'm not a half full guy ;)) which doesn't look too crash hot - but hopefully this is to give the bears something to do. its also mostly concrete with very little dirt areas. not doubt we all agree bears are smart, active creatures and maybe my expectations are a little higher than most others, but i think i'de be secretly lying to myself if i didn't say those bears must be pretty %*$@ bored.

i think when housing bears we should look at enclosure sizes and designs more reminiscent of what we provide great apes rather than big cats...
 
yea when i went to melb, i was so excited to see the bear exhibit, but when i got there, it was the worst exhibit in the zoo, and pat said, the pool at front is shallow, and looks silly with huge walls up to the foreground of exhibit. defintally, if melbourne continues to keep bears, this exhibit needs to be renovated next. maybe more thematic?

on this what sp./ sun species are they, could they be themed into an asian exhibit?
 
patrick said:
grant, to answer your question on why i dislike mebournes brown bear exhibit - the simple answer is that its tiny. Its also mostly concrete with very little dirt areas. not doubt we all agree bears are smart, active creatures and maybe my expectations are a little higher than most others, but i think i'de be secretly lying to myself if i didn't say those bears must be pretty %*$@ bored. i think when housing bears we should look at enclosure sizes and designs more reminiscent of what we provide great apes rather than big cats...
Click to expand...

I suppose its small in comparison to the open range facilities offered to bears by some wildlife and safari parks(as Glyn mentioned) but quite roomy as far as many Urban zoo enclosures go. Do they still have Syrian bears in it?

I've seen Brown Bears in the wild in both Alaska and Kamchatka(Russia) At some seasons they travel through the scrub on clearly defined trails which become so well used they're visible from the air. Often while travelling, they break into a RUN, using a sort of rocking canter to cover the big distances (several kilometres)from the foothills where they sleep to the beach where they feed.(we saw them doing this) They probably travel these routes daily for several weeks.
This will probably just make you feel worse about seeing bears in zoos.....:(

I agree, they're very intelligent and perhaps in need of something of a total rethink regarding captive management. In Australia perhaps a focus on the tropical species- Sun Bear and Sloth Bear would be a good idea considering your warm climate. Are there any Spectacled Bears in your region?
 
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