Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

[Swanson02]

I found a better picture showing all four girls at TWPZ (sorry it's low quality). You can see Anjalee is a little hidden behind Thong Dee. It's good to see that they are already quite close after only knowing each other for a few weeks. I wonder if she has been introduced to Sabai yet who I assume would be her next introduction after the cows.

 

[Zoofan15]

View attachment 543032
I found a better picture showing all four girls at TWPZ (sorry it's low quality). You can see Anjalee is a little hidden behind Thong Dee. It's good to see that they are already quite close after only knowing each other for a few weeks. I wonder if she has been introduced to Sabai yet who I assume would be her next introduction after the cows.

Wow, she’s significantly taller than Thong Dee. Kanlaya is looking tall too - she’s clearly Porntip’s daughter.

Depending on how much time Sabai is spending time with the matriarchal herd would determine how soon they’re introduced. As a playful young bull, I have no doubt these two will hit it off.

Depending on breeding plans, I’d guess the next step after that will be to introduce her to Pathi Harn. I imagine they’ll let her take some more time to integrate into the herd before they complicate personalities with pregnancy hormones. Clearly, all is going well so far!

 

[Jambo]

Wow, she’s significantly taller than Thong Dee. Kanlaya is looking tall too - she’s clearly Porntip’s daughter.

Depending on how much time Sabai is spending time with the matriarchal herd would determine how soon they’re introduced. As a playful young bull, I have no doubt these two will hit it off.

Depending on breeding plans, I’d guess the next step after that will be to introduce her to Pathi Harn. I imagine they’ll let her take some more time to integrate into the herd before they complicate personalities with pregnancy hormones. Clearly, all is going well so far!

Thong Dee's always been a very short and stocky female.

Sabai spends around half the week with the females, and the other half with Pathi Harn at the moment, so i'd imagine he would be the next introduction to allow Sabai to continue to be with the cows for the same amount of time.

Although we do hope for breeding from her in Pathi Harn in the future, I can see Dubbo using Gung first, as he's an experienced bull and Anjalee does need to breed asap.

 

[Zoofan15]

Thong Dee's always been a very short and stocky female.

Sabai spends around half the week with the females, and the other half with Pathi Harn at the moment, so i'd imagine he would be the next introduction to allow Sabai to continue to be with the cows for the same amount of time.

Although we do hope for breeding from her in Pathi Harn in the future, I can see Dubbo using Gung first, as he's an experienced bull and Anjalee does need to breed asap.

I remember Thong Dee’s short stature contributed to her age being estimated as six years (the same age as Gung) on arrival. Her birth year being adjusted to 1997 was done due to an assessment that considered aspects like the development of her tushes and her reproductive development (though cows can easily conceive at seven or younger).

Pathi Harn is considered proven after mating with the cows (outside of estrus) upon an intro in 2018. Assuming he’s fertile, I see no reason why they couldn’t breed him with Anjalee. That said, Gung’s sole representation is via one female, so it may be advantageous to create a new line through him and Anjalee.

Similarly, I’d expect Thong Dee’s next calf to be sired by Pathi Harn (or Putra Mas via AI), given both her sons are via Gung. A third male calf from Gung and Thong Dee would be completely redundant to the breeding programme.

 

[Jambo]

I remember Thong Dee’s short stature contributed to her age being estimated as six years (the same age as Gung) on arrival. Her birth year being adjusted to 1997 was done due to an assessment that considered aspects like the development of her tushes and her reproductive development (though cows can easily conceive at seven or younger).

Pathi Harn is considered proven after mating with the cows (outside of estrus) upon an intro in 2018. Assuming he’s fertile, I see no reason why they couldn’t breed him with Anjalee. That said, Gung’s sole representation is via one female, so it may be advantageous to create a new line through him and Anjalee.

Similarly, I’d expect Thong Dee’s next calf to be sired by Pathi Harn (or Putra Mas via AI), given both her sons are via Gung. A third male calf from Gung and Thong Dee would be completely redundant to the breeding programme.

Obviously there are many advantages either way of breeding Anjalee with either Gung or Pathi Harn first. It'll be interesting to see which they chose. Maybe they'll give Pathi Harn a go at the start, and then let Gung have a chance afterwards, being the proven, fertile bull.

It's been five and a half years now since Thong Dee last gave birth. Factoring in her previous breeding gap, we should see Dubbo beginning to attempt to breed from her very soon. I can see Dubbo breeding their cows in a sort of plan along the lines of this:

2024- Anjalee and Thong Dee
2028- Anjalee and Porntip
2032- Kanlaya and Thong Dee, Porntip (if needed)
2036- Anjalee and *possible* 2024 born female calves

From 2032 I don't see Dubbo breeding from Porntip and Thong Dee. Thong Dee will have four calves, including many descendants at Werribee and Porntip too will have four calves, including a male who may be used for future breeding at Dubbo.

 

[Zoofan15]

Obviously there are many advantages either way of breeding Anjalee with either Gung or Pathi Harn first. It'll be interesting to see which they chose. Maybe they'll give Pathi Harn a go at the start, and then let Gung have a chance afterwards, being the proven, fertile bull.

It's been five and a half years now since Thong Dee last gave birth. Factoring in her previous breeding gap, we should see Dubbo beginning to attempt to breed from her very soon. I can see Dubbo breeding their cows in a sort of plan along the lines of this:

2024- Anjalee and Thong Dee
2028- Anjalee and Porntip
2032- Kanlaya and Thong Dee, Porntip (if needed)
2036- Anjalee and *possible* 2024 born female calves

From 2032 I don't see Dubbo breeding from Porntip and Thong Dee. Thong Dee will have four calves, including many descendants at Werribee and Porntip too will have four calves, including a male who may be used for future breeding at Dubbo.

That sounds like a good plan. The only change I'd make is breeding from Porntip prior to 2028. They may be happy to risk a 10 year gap with Thong Dee, who will be well represented; but as it stands, Porntip only has two descendants, including one who is several years away from being out of the danger zone for EEHV.

Factor in that Porntip is the matriach and they will likely want to support her in that role (as well as the fact she models the best maternal care) and it presents a strong case for her breeding alongside Anjalee to give birth to their respective calves in 2024. Kanlaya would be six, which is also an ideal time to observe the maternal process through her mother.

Thong Dee could then breed in 2026 and again in 2030 (alongside Kanlaya). Keeping Porntip and Kanlaya in seperate breeding rotations means they're in a better position to offer each other support versus both having newborns at the same time.

 

[Jambo]

That sounds like a good plan. The only change I'd make is breeding from Porntip prior to 2028. They may be happy to risk a 10 year gap with Thong Dee, who will be well represented; but as it stands, Porntip only has two descendants, including one who is several years away from being out of the danger zone for EEHV.

Factor in that Porntip is the matriach and they will likely want to support her in that role (as well as the fact she models the best maternal care) and it presents a strong case for her breeding alongside Anjalee to give birth to their respective calves in 2024. Kanlaya would be six, which is also an ideal time to observe the maternal process through her mother.

Thong Dee could then breed in 2026 and again in 2030 (alongside Kanlaya). Keeping Porntip and Kanlaya in seperate breeding rotations means they're in a better position to offer each other support versus both having newborns at the same time.

So an updated plan looks like:

2024- Anjalee, Porntip
2026- Thong Dee
2030- Anjalee, Porntip
2032- Thong Dee, Kanlaya

Works incredibely well. By the time Kanlaya first gives birth she'll have witnessed the births of more than five calves, and will have assisted with raising two with her mother. Thong Dee and Porntip will be bred twice more (to give them four offspring each).

 

[Zoofan15]

So an updated plan looks like:

2024- Anjalee, Porntip
2026- Thong Dee
2030- Anjalee, Porntip
2032- Thong Dee, Kanlaya

Works incredibely well. By the time Kanlaya first gives birth she'll have witnessed the births of more than five calves, and will have assisted with raising two with her mother. Thong Dee and Porntip will be bred twice more (to give them four offspring each).

Looks good to me. Statistically speaking, the chance of at least one stillbirth or neonatal death amongst those seven births is reasonable, but this can be factored in with that cow joining the next breeding rotation.

Clusters (or at least pairs) of calves born around the same time keeps the mindset of the herd focused on young calves versus a single calf born years after the last cohort and being surrounded by juveniles crashing around and engaging in robust play. By the time the 2030 calves are born, any 2024 bulls will be beginning to transition out of the herd like Sabai is now.

Six year gaps between the calves works well given space isn't infinite; and are preferable to 8-10 year gaps for reproductive health reasons. They still need to be mindful of placements for bull calves, so will likely look at exporting some - especially from Thong Dee and Porntip-Kanlaya's lines.

 

[Swanson02]

So an updated plan looks like:

2024- Anjalee, Porntip
2026- Thong Dee
2030- Anjalee, Porntip
2032- Thong Dee, Kanlaya

Works incredibely well. By the time Kanlaya first gives birth she'll have witnessed the births of more than five calves, and will have assisted with raising two with her mother. Thong Dee and Porntip will be bred twice more (to give them four offspring each).

We've discussed this before but I think you can't forget Pak Boon in this equation it'd be a massive waste to never breed from her again. I'd say a transfer of her and Tang Mo to TWPZ in the next 4-5 years is more than likely

 

[Zoofan15]

We've discussed this before but I think you can't forget Pak Boon in this equation it'd be a massive waste to never breed from her again. I'd say a transfer of her and Tang Mo to TWPZ in the next 4-5 years is more than likely

Fair point. Pak Boon is a viable founder and a calf from her at this point would be considerably more valuable than a third calf from Porntip or Thong Dee. She’s essentially of equivalent genetic value to Anjalee (more so, considering Anjalee has known relatives within the captive population).

A revised breeding plan could look like:

2024: Porntip and Anjalee

2026: Pak Boon and Thong Dee

2030: Porntip and Anjalee

2032: Pak Boon and Kanlaya

This would see Thong Dee (the most represented cow) breed once more; Porntip and Pak Boon breed twice more; and Anjalee and Kanlaya begin their reproductive journeys.

If Pak Boon can’t rejoin the herd in the next couple of years, they may need to look at AI to avoid the gap since her last birth (2017) becoming too large.

 

[Jambo]

Fair point. Pak Boon is a viable founder and a calf from her at this point would be considerably more valuable than a third calf from Porntip or Thong Dee. She’s essentially of equivalent genetic value to Anjalee (more so, considering Anjalee has known relatives within the captive population).

A revised breeding plan could look like:

2024: Porntip and Anjalee

2026: Pak Boon and Thong Dee

2030: Porntip and Anjalee

2032: Pak Boon and Kanlaya

This would see Thong Dee (the most represented cow) breed once more; Porntip and Pak Boon breed twice more; and Anjalee and Kanlaya begin their reproductive journeys.

If Pak Boon can’t rejoin the herd in the next couple of years, they may need to look at AI to avoid the gap since her last birth (2017) becoming too large.

I don't imagine Taronga have any immediate plans to move Pak Boon and Tang Mo. In fact, despite what we all hope to happen (them moving to Dubbo), I wouldn't be suprised if Pak Boon is AI'd in the near future. A move may occur soon, but not within the next few years.

I'd imagine Pak Boon joining the rotation will depend on when she arrives. I think it's inevitable she and Tang Mo are sent eventually, but for all we know that could be in a decades time. It all depends on whether Pak Boon has a calf from AI. If she does, there would be no rush to breed her upon arrival at Dubbo depending on how long into the future she's sent.

 

[Zoofan15]

I don't imagine Taronga have any immediate plans to move Pak Boon and Tang Mo. In fact, despite what we all hope to happen (them moving to Dubbo), I wouldn't be suprised if Pak Boon is AI'd in the near future. A move may occur soon, but not within the next few years.

I'd imagine Pak Boon joining the rotation will depend on when she arrives. I think it's inevitable she and Tang Mo are sent eventually, but for all we know that could be in a decades time. It all depends on whether Pak Boon has a calf from AI. If she does, there would be no rush to breed her upon arrival at Dubbo depending on how long into the future she's sent.

I’m under the impression Taronga are fairly committed to elephants long term (after all they’ll be anxious not to concede a notable point of difference to Sydney Zoo); and if so, the transfer of Pak Boon and Tang Mo would require elephants to take their place.

All Dubbo really have to send them at this point in time is Sabai, so they may delay the transfer until calves from the next cohort at Dubbo are available for transfer (up to a decade away).

Alternatively, things could be sped up if Taronga is designated as a retirement destination for Burma and Permai (unlikely, but not out of the question). If this was to happen in the next couple of years, it’d coincide with Dubbo completing their new cow facility and being in a stronger position to receive Pak Boon and Tang Mo.

 

[Jambo]

An overhead view of Taronga Western Plain's elephant complex (via google earth):

Google Earth view of Asian Elephant exhibits.

• Jambo
• 14 Oct 2020
• 1

TWPZ have five Asian Elephant exhibits, three on display, and two off display; alongside two barns.

 

[Zoofan15]

An overhead view of Taronga Western Plain's elephant complex (via google earth):

Google Earth view of Asian Elephant exhibits.

• Jambo
• 14 Oct 2020
• 1

TWPZ have five Asian Elephant exhibits, three on display, and two off display; alongside two barns.

Some additional notes on the Dubbo elephant facility:

Enclosure 2 and Enclosure 3 are used for introductions. The dividing fence line serves as a site for visual and protected contact introductions; while gates can be opened to form a round house style paddock that enables elephants to flee a pursuant. This is especially important in mating introductions where the cow isn't interested in the bull's advances and wishes to escape.

Enclosure 3 is the only one of the five exhibits without a pool. All pools are drained during winter to save water as the elephants don't make use of them during this time.

The plan is to build an additional off display paddock, which will be used to house the matriachal herd intermittently to save wear and tear on the other enclosures. It will also feature a large barn (the fourth at Dubbo) capable of housing the matriachal herd indoors for extended periods during the winter.

 

[Jambo]

Some additional notes on the Dubbo elephant facility:

Enclosure 2 and Enclosure 3 are used for introductions. The dividing fence line serves as a site for visual and protected contact introductions; while gates can be opened to form a round house style paddock that enables elephants to flee a pursuant. This is especially important in mating introductions where the cow isn't interested in the bull's advances and wishes to escape.

Enclosure 3 is the only one of the five exhibits without a pool. All pools are drained during winter to save water as the elephants don't make use of them during this time.

The plan is to build an additional off display paddock, which will be used to house the matriachal herd intermittently to save wear and tear on the other enclosures. It will also feature a large barn (the fourth at Dubbo) capable of housing the matriachal herd indoors for extended periods during the winter.

I think a barn like this one at Whipsnade will be great for Dubbo. It will be big enough to house the matriarchal herd during times they cannot go out (such as during harsh winters); and also serves as two seperate, still decently sized pens if separation is needed (such as mothers and newborn calves).

 

[ZCChip]

Some additional notes on the Dubbo elephant facility:

Enclosure 2 and Enclosure 3 are used for introductions. The dividing fence line serves as a site for visual and protected contact introductions; while gates can be opened to form a round house style paddock that enables elephants to flee a pursuant. This is especially important in mating introductions where the cow isn't interested in the bull's advances and wishes to escape.

Enclosure 3 is the only one of the five exhibits without a pool. All pools are drained during winter to save water as the elephants don't make use of them during this time.

The plan is to build an additional off display paddock, which will be used to house the matriachal herd intermittently to save wear and tear on the other enclosures. It will also feature a large barn (the fourth at Dubbo) capable of housing the matriachal herd indoors for extended periods during the winter.

Then what are the square pens across the off display pen 2 for? Unless they manage the cows in full contact still?

 

[Jambo]

Then what are the square pens across the off display pen 2 for? Unless they manage the cows in full contact still?

The cows are not still managed in free contact. I don't believe the pens your referring too are related directly to housing the elephants. They may be former contact pens though as they used to hold their African elephants in free contact, up until around a decade ago.

 

[Zoofan15]

Then what are the square pens across the off display pen 2 for? Unless they manage the cows in full contact still?

Free contact was abandoned at Taronga following the 2012 incident, where a two year old calf crushed a his keeper against a bollard. She fortunately survived, but subsequently free contact was ceased at both Taronga and Zoos Victoria.

I'll ask my friend who's a frequent visitor as to the use of the pens you noted, but irregardless of their purpose I think they'd be ideal for native marsupials, which sometimes have an off display set up like this (bar the one at the end which appears to have troughs).

 

[Zoofan15]

Auckland Zoo - Update on Burma

Burma is enjoying the attention that comes from being the zoo’s only elephant. While she and Anjalee were amicable, they were largely independent of each other and also enjoyed their own company.

I spoke to a keeper who advised the zoo have given up on trying to relocate her within the region as there’s no Australian zoos that are suitable or willing to receive her.

The search for a new zoo is now focussed on the USA. I will tag @Elephant Enthusiast who has an extensive knowledge of their facilities and has prepared a list of the most likely host candidates.

 

[Elephant Enthusiast]

Auckland Zoo - Update on Burma

Burma is enjoying the attention that comes from being the zoo’s only elephant. While she and Anjalee were amicable, they were largely independent of each other and also enjoyed their own company.

I spoke to a keeper who advised the zoo have given up on trying to relocate her within the region as there’s no Australian zoos that are suitable or willing to receive her.

The search for a new zoo is now focussed on the USA. I will tag @Elephant Enthusiast who has an extensive knowledge of their facilities and has prepared a list of the most likely host candidates.

Thank you, @Zoofan15. The following American zoological institutions would be the most probable/possible candidates to receive Burma.

Honolulu Zoo - Honolulu, Hawaii
• Honolulu would be the perfect forever home for Burma! Honolulu currently has two cows, Mari (7 years older than Burma) and Vaigai (3 years younger than Burma), who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma. Also, adding Burma to their herd would enhance the current dynamics at Honolulu, and bring the herd to three, the minimum number by AZA standards. In addition, the elephant facility received a major upgrade a few years back, so Burma would be living in a state-of-the-art facility. Further, the climate in Honolulu is comparable to that of Southeast Asia. Honolulu checks all the boxes.

Los Angeles Zoo - Los Angeles, California
• Los Angeles currently has three older cows and a mature bull, who would, theoretically, make great companions for Burma. Also, their elephant facility is one of the best in the country, and has the space to accommodate more elephants.

San Diego Zoo - San Diego, California
• San Diego currently has two older Asian cows, who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma, especially Mary, the social butterfly of the herd. Also, San Diego specializes in caring for elephants in their golden years, so Burma would receive the best of care as she gets older. However, with the recent acquisition of two adolescent African bulls, it appears San Diego may be transitioning from geriatric to bachelor.

Miami Zoo - Miami, Florida
• Miami currently has two (1.1) older Asian elephants, who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma, and Ongard, the adolescent Asian bull from Melbourne. I'm not sure if Miami intends to transition from geriatric to breeding once Dalip and Nellie pass away but, regardless, Miami does have a great facility for their elephants.

Audubon Zoo - New Orleans, Louisiana
• Audubon currently has three older cows (two of which are pretty much the same age as Burma), who would, theoretically, be great companions for Burma. Also, the elephant facility received a significant upgrade a few years back, so Burma would be living in a state-of-the-art facility.