Future of Zoos SA zoos (Speculation)

[Zoofan15]

Regarding antelope importation I am going to believe it when I see it. One would believe with our climate and huge open range zoos many antelope species would thrive,at the end of the day it comes down to the guys running the show, if they would rather spend the money on hotel’s then thats the way it goes. As we have seen with the resent importation of zebra it took two small regional family zoos to do the largest importation of zebra into Australia. This would have been pocket money for any of our major zoos but they would rather have badly inbred animals it would seem.

@Swanson02 likely hit the nail on the head by mentioning zoo’s are quick to prioritise imports for the high profile species, while allowing the low key species to inbreed for generations.

The general public know our elephants and great apes by name and would wax lyrical about incest on social media if they were bred with close relatives. However, nobody can identify any communal herd living Bovid from its herd mates; let alone learn its name or recite it’s genealogy.

 

[Jambo]

I've heard Kudu mentioned at Monarto before by a volunteer (Although I heard they carry many diseases). I've also heard Gemsbok and I think they fit the best with the Namibian "Etosha" theme of Wild Africa. They could tie gemsbok in with Werribee, the only caveat is I don't know how well they go in large multi-species exhibits.

Kudu would be good, although Werribee did phase them out, they were breeding them well though which is a shame. Gemsbok could fit in nicely in a large multi-species exhibit. They're in held in such enclosures by many zoos worldwide.

I hope they focus on rejuvenating some populations first, namely Indian Antelope, Eland, Addax, Bison, Scimitar-horned oryx, Barbary sheep, Himalayan tahr, and Bongo before introducing anything new into the mix. All it requires is 2-3 males for all of those species named, that's just 16-24 animals, and we would be set up for at least a decade or 2.

Blackbuck are doing quite well in the region, but do need new genetics. Same with Addax, Eland, Bison and Scimitar Horned Oryx. Although considering the declining populations of Barbary Sheep, Himalayan Tahr and Bongo, new imports are needed either way. It's a shame Taronga didn't keep their Himalayan Tahr. Their former enclosure (with the mountain still inact) still sits there as it's heritage listed. A view of the Lions with the Tahr in the background would be amazing, despite it not being entirely geographically correct.

 

[Zorro]

With Werribee's new masterplan, I can definitely see them obtaining some new bovine species in the near future. They were interested in Gemsbok in the past, and I would love to see them back in Australian Zoo's again. Werribee's iconic Savannah is down to just six species in total so it'll be great for them to add to that.

I can see Werribee also possibly be interested in Bongo too. Besides Taronga and Monarto, the region will soon desire another holder, and Werribee's perfect for it.

Regarding savanna exhibits I believe Australia zoos African savanna holds giraffe and white rhino plus just two Zebras not a real lot of diversity not even at ostrich in sight lol

 

[Swanson02]

Regarding antelope importation I am going to believe it when I see it. One would believe with our climate and huge open range zoos many antelope species would thrive,at the end of the day it comes down to the guys running the show, if they would rather spend the money on hotel’s then thats the way it goes. As we have seen with the resent importation of zebra it took two small regional family zoos to do the largest importation of zebra into Australia. This would have been pocket money for any of our major zoos but they would rather have badly inbred animals it would seem.

Agreed I'll believe it when I see it too. However, I understand the low interest in genetic rejuvenation imports from major zoos as are just a pit for money, providing no returns.

@Swanson02
The general public know our elephants and great apes by name and would wax lyrical about incest on social media if they were bred with close relatives. However, nobody can identify any communal herd living Bovid from its herd mates; let alone learn its name or recite it’s genealogy.

Do they still bother with studbooks for prolific breeders like Indian antelope? Or has it got to the point where it's just guesswork?

 

[Jambo]

Regarding savanna exhibits I believe Australia zoos African savanna holds giraffe and white rhino plus just two Zebras not a real lot of diversity not even at ostrich in sight lol

The African savannah is not the only thing Australia needs to look at improving! In reality, rhinos, giraffe and zebra are all the public care about seeing in an African Savannah enclosure. Other antelope species would be beneficial though, especially with the whole 'savannah' feeling. Australia zoo have the space.

 

[Swanson02]

Regarding savanna exhibits I believe Australia zoos African savanna holds giraffe and white rhino plus just two Zebras not a real lot of diversity not even at ostrich in sight lol

I barely have hope in ZoosVic, ZoosSA and Taronga let alone Australia Zoo. Australia Zoo would rather build some "Crocodilic-super-mega-deluxe-Bindi's and Rob's ice cream stall" than even think about importing a single ostrich .

 

[Zoofan15]

Do they still bother with studbooks for prolific breeders like Indian antelope? Or has it got to the point where it's just guesswork?

Not sure about studbooks, but they’re all recorded on ZIMS with a dam and a sire if known (in some cases, listed as multiple sire).

 

[Zorro]

The African savannah is not the only thing Australia needs to look at improving! In reality, rhinos, giraffe and zebra are all the public care about seeing in an African Savannah enclosure. Other antelope species would be beneficial though, especially with the whole 'savannah' feeling. Australia zoo have the space.

As far as I am aware not one antelope has ever set foot into the zoo to date

 

[Zoofan15]

As far as I am aware not one antelope has ever set foot into the zoo to date

At a minimum, Australia Zoo should be looking at species which can be integrated into their Savannah e.g. Nyala and Ostrich and building exhibits for species like Cheetah, which are off display.

They’d ideally be looking at acquiring species within the region such as African wild dog and Spotted hyena to add some diversity to their collection.

And if they really wanted to impress us, imports from overseas - both of new species and to supplement existing populations.

Every now and then they surprise us, but typically they struggle with the basics - namely operating a decent mixed species Savannah.

 

[Zorro]

At a minimum, Australia Zoo should be looking at species which can be integrated into their Savannah e.g. Nyala and Ostrich and building exhibits for species like Cheetah, which are off display.

They’d ideally be looking at acquiring species within the region such as African wild dog and Spotted hyena to add some diversity to their collection.

And if they really wanted to impress us, imports from overseas - both of new species and to supplement existing populations.

Every now and then they surprise us, but typically they struggle with the basics - namely operating a decent mixed species Savannah.

There were proud announcements when the savanna opened that it was the only muti species African exhibit in Queensland. With ALL 3 species

 

[tetrapod]

People need to be aware that certain bovid species are not allowed to be imported - all goats, sheep and cattle are banned (so no tahr, barbary sheep or bison). It's similar to the protection given to the pig industry. Ironically several domestic rare breeds are also threatened with extinction due to the difficulty/impossibility of importing fresh stock/semen.
Also wildebeest are not allowed to be brought in (a specific disease). Not sure whether close relatives like topi and blesbok are similarly affected.

 

[Swanson02]

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone knows if Adelaide Zoo has even considered making any attempts since 2019 at breeding their male Brazilian Tapir Arturo (2006) with their youngest female Chiquita (2002). I understand Chiquita is getting on a bit but in 2019 (when Arturo was introduced) she was only 18, 3 years older than Talara (1987) was (15) when she herself had Chiquita. Chiquita is also still 5 to 10 years short of her life expectancy (25-30) plenty of time to raise a calf, her mother however has amazingly exceeded it now at 35.

Saying this I don't know tapirs too well, so could it be a problem with infertility later in life? I also understand inbreeding could be an issue but that factor hasn't stopped other zoos in the region with literally every other species of ungulate bar maybe rhinos.
It's just if Darling Downs is planning on an import (which obviously entails breeding animals). I thought maybe we could at least maximize the genetic potential of our current geriatric population instead of letting them die off and then running into genetic bottle ends in the future with just say 2.2 new founding individuals.

Also is it possible that Adelaide could send Arturo up to DDZ to breed with their female (ignoring inbreeding), also I don't know how old she is, so this might be a dumb idea.
Otherwise, they should at least use Arturo as a founding bull if any imports do arrive. It's better to have the foundations of a breeding program already before imports arrive rather than a group of geriatric phase-outs.

 

[Zoofan15]

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone knows if Adelaide Zoo has even considered making any attempts since 2019 at breeding their male Brazilian Tapir Arturo (2006) with their youngest female Chiquita (2002). I understand Chiquita is getting on a bit but in 2019 (when Arturo was introduced) she was only 18, 3 years older than Talara (1987) was (15) when she herself had Chiquita. Chiquita is also still 5 to 10 years short of her life expectancy (25-30) plenty of time to raise a calf, her mother however has amazingly exceeded it now at 35.

Saying this I don't know tapirs too well, so could it be a problem with infertility later in life? I also understand inbreeding could be an issue but that factor hasn't stopped other zoos in the region with literally every other species of ungulate bar maybe rhinos.
It's just if Darling Downs is planning on an import (which obviously entails breeding animals). I thought maybe we could at least maximize the genetic potential of our current geriatric population instead of letting them die off and then running into genetic bottle ends in the future with just say 2.2 new founding individuals.

Also is it possible that Adelaide could send Arturo up to DDZ to breed with their female (ignoring inbreeding), also I don't know how old she is, so this might be a dumb idea.
Otherwise, they should at least use Arturo as a founding bull if any imports do arrive. It's better to have the foundations of a breeding program already before imports arrive rather than a group of geriatric phase-outs.

As far as I’m aware, Adelaide Zoo have indeed been trying to breed from Arturo and Chiquita without success since his arrival. Though her mother was similar in age at her last birth, she’d produced offspring throughout her life versus Chiquita, who has never bred.

Compatibility does seem to be an issue with this species. Hamilton Zoo similarly failed to breed their pair over the 20+ years they had together; while successful pairs seem to produce multiple offspring.

Darling Downs Zoo’s female is four years older, so that’s presumably why they’re attempting to breed from the younger Adelaide female.

This is a species of interest with regards to importing, so hopefully some new founders aren’t too far off.

Adelaide Zoo:

1.0 Arturo (2006)
0.1 Talara (1987)
0.1 Chiquita (2002)

Darling Downs Zoo:

0.1 Tiquie (1998)

 

[Jambo]

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone knows if Adelaide Zoo has even considered making any attempts since 2019 at breeding their male Brazilian Tapir Arturo (2006) with their youngest female Chiquita (2002). I understand Chiquita is getting on a bit but in 2019 (when Arturo was introduced) she was only 18, 3 years older than Talara (1987) was (15) when she herself had Chiquita. Chiquita is also still 5 to 10 years short of her life expectancy (25-30) plenty of time to raise a calf, her mother however has amazingly exceeded it now at 35.

Saying this I don't know tapirs too well, so could it be a problem with infertility later in life? I also understand inbreeding could be an issue but that factor hasn't stopped other zoos in the region with literally every other species of ungulate bar maybe rhinos.
It's just if Darling Downs is planning on an import (which obviously entails breeding animals). I thought maybe we could at least maximize the genetic potential of our current geriatric population instead of letting them die off and then running into genetic bottle ends in the future with just say 2.2 new founding individuals.

Also is it possible that Adelaide could send Arturo up to DDZ to breed with their female (ignoring inbreeding), also I don't know how old she is, so this might be a dumb idea.
Otherwise, they should at least use Arturo as a founding bull if any imports do arrive. It's better to have the foundations of a breeding program already before imports arrive rather than a group of geriatric phase-outs.

I believe that was the whole purpose of sending Arturo there; so i'd assume they've made further attempts. I'm imagining it may be something regarding her age in that Chiquita wasn't given the opportunity to breed until she was eighteen. Maybe they experience reproductive issues similar to those experienced with elephants, rhinos ect.

The female at Darling Downs is Tiquie, who is Talara's other daughter. She's four years older than Chiquita, so Adelaide may as well continue to attempt to breed with their current pair.

Hopefully new genetics can help reboot the population. Both Adelaide and Darling Downs seem keen on this species, and unlike Malayans these tapirs don't suffer from eye problems.

 

[Zorro]

I do hope Monarto import the original species of chosen antelope for our region namely the impala and Sable antelope which would in my view be a perfect choice for the new huge African safari. I never thought a zoo of this calibre would appear in our region considering how small our population is compared to Europe or the US. The possibilities are great but so far looking good, I hope now the new IRA is completed they take full advantage of it. I want to visit sometime in the future after the rhinos arrive this project excites me it will be worth the plane trip

 

[Swanson02]

I believe that was the whole purpose of sending Arturo there; so i'd assume they've made further attempts. I'm imagining it may be something regarding her age in that Chiquita wasn't given the opportunity to breed until she was eighteen. Maybe they experience reproductive issues similar to those experienced with elephants, rhinos ect.

The female at Darling Downs is Tiquie, who is Talara's other daughter. She's four years older than Chiquita, so Adelaide may as well continue to attempt to breed with their current pair.

Hopefully, new genetics can help reboot the population. Both Adelaide and Darling Downs seem keen on this species, and unlike Malayans these tapirs don't suffer from eye problems.

Chiquita to me from my visits seems like a highly shy tapir, even more so than her mother, so that may suggest some breeding failure. Otherwise, this is just a theory and I couldn't find any info on it, but is it possible that she could be suffering from estrus suppression from her mother? We know it's an issue with White Rhino mother and daughter duos. So could it be an issue with rhinos' closest relatives Tapirs too? There would exist little evidence in all other rhino species and tapirs as they are all apart from White Rhinos highly solitary.

Also, would DDZ and Adelaide have to clear a separate IRA for Tapirs, or are they encompassed in the bovine IRA, or even rhino or equid IRA as they are a perissodactyl?

 

[Jambo]

Chiquita to me from my visits seems like a highly shy tapir, even more so than her mother, so that may suggest some breeding failure. Otherwise, this is just a theory and I couldn't find any info on it, but is it possible that she could be suffering from estrus suppression from her mother? We know it's an issue with White Rhino mother and daughter duos. So could it be an issue with rhinos' closest relatives Tapirs too? There would exist little evidence in all other rhino species and tapirs as they are all apart from White Rhinos highly solitary.

Also, would DDZ and Adelaide have to clear a separate IRA for Tapirs, or are they encompassed in the bovine IRA, or even rhino or equid IRA as they are a perissodactyl?

That's a possibility re. her shyness. This has been a factor with primates in the past; some females have been unwilling to breed for various reasons. Arturo was always very active at Melbourne, always up to something. It could very well be a personality clash too.

That's an interesting theory regarding estrus suppression. It could very well be a factor, although i've never heard of it affecting tapirs before.

In the past, most tapirs have been paired up one on one. So, f she's been introduced to Arturo alongside Talara, that may be part of the issue, especially if Talara is more dominant over Chiquita.

A seperate IRA would need to be created for tapirs. Darling Downs and Adelaide would have to complete it together as it's rather hard for a single zoo to get it done; they need the support of other zoos within the region.

 

[Zoofan15]

Also, would DDZ and Adelaide have to clear a separate IRA for Tapirs, or are they encompassed in the bovine IRA, or even rhino or equid IRA as they are a perissodactyl?

A seperate IRA would need to be created for tapirs. Darling Downs and Adelaide would have to complete it together as it's rather hard for a single zoo to get it done; they need the support of other zoos within the region.

It appears tapir come under the perissodactyl IRA along with rhinoceros, zebras, Przewalski’s horses and other non-domesticated equida:

https://www.awe.gov.au/sites/defaul...6/2012-11_Final_Policy_Zoo_Perissodactyls.pdf

 

[Zoofan15]

I do hope Monarto import the original species of chosen antelope for our region namely the impala and Sable antelope which would in my view be a perfect choice for the new huge African safari. I never thought a zoo of this calibre would appear in our region considering how small our population is compared to Europe or the US. The possibilities are great but so far looking good, I hope now the new IRA is completed they take full advantage of it. I want to visit sometime in the future after the rhinos arrive this project excites me it will be worth the plane trip

Monarto is on track to becoming one of the best Safari parks in the world. They’ve gone from strength to strength over the past two decades from a relatively unknown zoo (outside of SA and the zoo community) and are constructing exhibits on a scale the region has never seen before.

Typical of an open range zoo, their investments seem to be based around offering the animals space as opposed to aesthetics; though this in itself is a sight to behold and one I look forward to seeing take shape.

Large herds of ungulates have been a focus of Monarto and with the IRA complete, there’s plenty of opportunities available to them.

 

[Randomname0183]

Would it be possible to bring in giraffes to the region to add some genetic diversity? From what I’ve been told about the serious inbreeding and lack of care for genetic purity, perhaps they could import some hybrids from the US or Europe, or phase them all,out and start fresh with one of the subspecies kept overseas (that’d be Reticulated, Rothschild, Cape, Masai or Kordofan).