It looks like Leipzig is preparing for the births.
https://www.facebook.com/101944485539600/posts/190210730046308/?d=n
https://www.facebook.com/101944485539600/posts/190210730046308/?d=n
Asian Elephants in Europe 2022
- Thread starter Hyak_II
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From comments it appears Dong Chung and Rani may be the pair expecting.
The first birth is scheduled for October, but could very well happen this month.
No, it was announced earlier this year that Thuza and Pantha are the pregnant cows but I hope Rani falls pregnant soon as well if she hasn't already. Pretty sure Don Chung is a non breeding cow...
Fingers crossed all goes well with both births and we have at least one female calf! Both girls are young first time moms but have had experience around calves so things should go fine.
Axf
actually it was the speculation that Don Chung and Rani will be on one side with Kewa and her expecting daughters, Thuza and Pantha in the center with Astra on the far right by herself. There is some people saying Don Chung is aggressive to the calves and there was an incident back in 2002 (I believe?). Edgar will be with Voi Nam.
I do wonder why Rani has not been bred or they are solely focusing on creating on developing a Kewa line?
actually it was the speculation that Don Chung and Rani will be on one side with Kewa and her expecting daughters, Thuza and Pantha in the center with Astra on the far right by herself. There is some people saying Don Chung is aggressive to the calves and there was an incident back in 2002 (I believe?). Edgar will be with Voi Nam.
I do wonder why Rani has not been bred or they are solely focusing on creating on developing a Kewa line?
Rani's still young and did give birth to Kiran only two years ago. Her line is also decently represented.
Yes he died of herpes virus shortly after.
i went to earlier to this thread and Don Chung was to be moved but this has not occurred yet.
It's only been two years since Rani last give birth, so adding the 22 month gestation, at earliest, she'll only be in the early to mid stages of pregnancy.
Do you mean to another facility?
At Planckendael: Kanvar is still crate training but the EEP has not assigned a new destination for him yet. In the mean time he will be allowed to attempt to produce offspring with May Tagu or Kai Mook. Whenever Suki and Tun Kai Are in cycle Kanvar will be moved to his bull paddock.
Why not allow him stay long term? So he can mate with Suki and Tun Kai when they come to age? And possibly the other cows at least twice. He does not share the same family with any of the living captive elephants.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Kanvar is the only surviving offspring of both his mother and father making him extremely genetically valuable
correct but they are crate training him for transport?
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Yes they are crate training him for transport, due to him not being successful in mating May Tagu and Kai Mook
oh okay. Thanks. I wasn’t aware of that. Hopefully he will be successful at some point.
The EEP wants them to witness a birth before themselves being pregnant. So they can learn how to be mothers. And Kanvar lacking in mating is the reason they are looking for another Bull. Kanvar will probably be successful at another zoo, he is still young. However the Zoo welcomes if he would succeed. They are just wary of the cows cycles stopping, so they requested a larger bull. The last bull was 6 ton (Chang) and Kanvar is still on the smaller side 4 or 5 ton.(Not sure the exact weight) The crate training is going relatively well btw.
The herd at Planckendael is also relatively interesting Khaing Phyo Phyo only has 3 surviving offspring: May Tagu, Kai Mook and Timber.
Thanks. It sounds logical to do that.
If EEP has no recommendations as of yet then perhaps they are still hoping Kanvar will succeed. I certainly hope so. It’s hard to find a place for a bull where he can socialize with others and perhaps witness mating.
yes, Chang was big! Unfortunately he has passed on. I do not know of any proven mature bulls that are needing to be relocated in the UK though?
That sounds about right; smaller bulls can often struggle to successfully mate larger cows. I'm not sure how big the Planckendeal cows are, but if they are quite large females this would make sense as to why Kanvar hasn't breed yet, especially if he's a small male himself.
At the moment, no. An option would be Anjan who's four, but he won't be moved until at least another two or three years time.
It’s a variety of issues at Plankendael. Kanvar does not need any “lessons” from an older bull. He both knows what to do, and has the desire to breed cows. He regularly mounts and breeds with Yu Yu Yin, Suki, and Tun Kai, although obviously nothing comes of these matings.
For whatever reason though, Kai Mook and May Tagu will not allow him to successfully breed them, generally in the form of them simply not stopping walking for Kanvar to properly mount them.
Kanvar is the largest elephant at Plankendael, in both height and weight. He’s not huge, but definitely the biggest by a noticeable degree. The issue likely stems more from a lack of assertiveness from Kanvar. He seems to mostly just gently chase the cows around when he wants to breed, which apparently isn’t working for the two breeding cows.
Also in regards to transferring, as mentioned, Kanvar is EXTREMELY genetically valuable, he is essentially a founder, the only living descendant from two wild caught parents. May Tagu is also fairly genetically valuable as well. The other three girls are all of only moderate genetic value through their well represented sires sides, but it’s still a priority to breed from them to help flesh out their herd structure. Ultimately it’s just wasting Kanvar‘s genetic value by retaining him at Plankendael, until he sires some offspring there’s always a risk he could potentially die without having any living descendants, so it’s best to get him off to a herd that will accept his more gentle approach to the cows. Personally I think Pairi Daiza would be a good place for him to go, they can send Po Chin off to bachelor holding, and in his place Kanvar will have 9 cows of assorted ages to breed with, all of which barring the few youngest having extensive experience with births in a herd setting.
For whatever reason though, Kai Mook and May Tagu will not allow him to successfully breed them, generally in the form of them simply not stopping walking for Kanvar to properly mount them.
Kanvar is the largest elephant at Plankendael, in both height and weight. He’s not huge, but definitely the biggest by a noticeable degree. The issue likely stems more from a lack of assertiveness from Kanvar. He seems to mostly just gently chase the cows around when he wants to breed, which apparently isn’t working for the two breeding cows.
Also in regards to transferring, as mentioned, Kanvar is EXTREMELY genetically valuable, he is essentially a founder, the only living descendant from two wild caught parents. May Tagu is also fairly genetically valuable as well. The other three girls are all of only moderate genetic value through their well represented sires sides, but it’s still a priority to breed from them to help flesh out their herd structure. Ultimately it’s just wasting Kanvar‘s genetic value by retaining him at Plankendael, until he sires some offspring there’s always a risk he could potentially die without having any living descendants, so it’s best to get him off to a herd that will accept his more gentle approach to the cows. Personally I think Pairi Daiza would be a good place for him to go, they can send Po Chin off to bachelor holding, and in his place Kanvar will have 9 cows of assorted ages to breed with, all of which barring the few youngest having extensive experience with births in a herd setting.
Honesty, it’s not really surprising with better nutrition that the zoo provides.
And that’s why I asked earlier about crate training. What’s the intention?
Hopefully Kanvar will eventually figure it out.
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