Australasian Baboon Population - Research and Discussion

[Zoofan15]

Chacmas seem very rare in Zoos nowadays. A quick look at Zootierliste shows none in Europe, I'm not sure about the USA. I've only ever seen them once afaik- in the 1960's- a small group at Munich Zoo in Germany.

Chacma baboon are indeed rare in captivity. No AZA zoos hold them and the last Chacma baboons in Australasia died in 2011 - a male at Auckland Zoo; and a female at Zion Wildlife Gardens (descended from Auckland’s troop).

I only know of the Johannesburg Zoo who hold them at this point in time.

They were once held by a number of Australasian zoos including Auckland, Wellington, Melbourne and Taronga. Auckland was the last of these to hold them - with plans to phase them out in place from the early 1990’s. I enjoyed seeing the remnants of their troop in the 2000’s.

 

[Pertinax]

Chacma baboon are indeed rare in captivity. No AZA zoos hold them and the last Chacma baboons in Australasia died in 2011 - a male at Auckland Zoo; and a female at Zion Wildlife Gardens (descended from Auckland’s troop).

I only know of the Johannesburg Zoo who hold them at this point in time.

They were once held by a number of Australasian zoos including Auckland, Wellington, Melbourne and Taronga. Auckland was the last of these to hold them - with plans to phase them out in place from the early 1990’s. I enjoyed seeing the remnants of their troop in the 2000’s.

Strange, I visited all four of the zoos you mention here around that period, but don't remember seeing them at any of them, might have done so though...

 

[tetrapod]

...(apparently the notorious privately owned Notre Dame Zoo at Mulgoa near Fernhill Estate had [B]Allen's Swamp Monkeys[/B] and De Brazzas Guenons besides an array of big cats, marsupials, hoofstock etc until they were shut down in '96/'97).

Steve, have you got a reference for these guys? Never heard of ASM in Australia before.

 

[Jambo]

Chacma baboon are indeed rare in captivity. No AZA zoos hold them and the last Chacma baboons in Australasia died in 2011 - a male at Auckland Zoo; and a female at Zion Wildlife Gardens (descended from Auckland’s troop).

I only know of the Johannesburg Zoo who hold them at this point in time.

They were once held by a number of Australasian zoos including Auckland, Wellington, Melbourne and Taronga. Auckland was the last of these to hold them - with plans to phase them out in place from the early 1990’s. I enjoyed seeing the remnants of their troop in the 2000’s.

Strange, I visited all four of the zoos you mention here around that period, but don't remember seeing them at any of them, might have done so though...

Auckland certainly held Chacma baboons; they were in a a cage near the entrance as of the mid 90's, and were then moved into the current Hamadryads Baboon exhibit when the African Extension opened in 1999.

Melbourne held Chacmas, Hamadryads, Olives, Geladas and Mandrills in their Baboon row all at one point - probably going back into the 70's.

Taronga also definitely held Chacmas too going back too; I believe they may have supplied Auckland with some of their individuals if I can recall correctly.

Wellington's group may have been derived from Auckland's, but had all died during the 80's.

 

[tetrapod]

Auckland certainly held Chacma baboons; they were in a a cage near the entrance as of the mid 90's, and were then moved into the current Hamadryads Baboon exhibit when the African Extension opened in 1999.

Melbourne held Chacmas, Hamadryads, Olives, Geladas and Mandrills in their Baboon row all at one point - probably going back into the 70's.

Taronga also definitely held Chacmas too going back too; I believe they may have supplied Auckland with some of their individuals if I can recall correctly.

Re: Melbourne. Definitely all those species going back into the 70s. Also held Lesser(?) spot-nosed guenon and European badger is this row during this time too.

 

[Jambo]

Re: Melbourne. Definitely all those species going back into the 70s. Also held Lesser(?) spot-nosed guenon and European badger is this row during this time too.

Yes, they were Lesser Spot Nosed Guenons. Melbourne did import two females in 1982 from the US, but presumably had them prior to this as well (ie. going back into the 70's).

Melbourne Zoo indeed breed their Badgers very well in the past; the last dying in 2009.

 

[tetrapod]

Yes, they were Lesser Spot Nosed Guenons. Melbourne did import two females in 1982 from the US, but presumably had them prior to this as well (ie. going back into the 70's).

Melbourne Zoo indeed breed their Badgers very well in the past; the last dying in 2009.

Not sure whether the guenons were there in the 70s, but recall seeing them once in the 80s. Presumably they were earmarked for the Arboreal Primate complex when space was available. Shame that MZ never imported a male. Do we know when they died out?
I recall the last badgers were moved to an exhibit by the Syrian bears.

 

[Zoofan15]

Strange, I visited all four of the zoos you mention here around that period, but don't remember seeing them at any of them, might have done so though...

Auckland Zoo held Chacma baboon in an extremely outdated cage adjacent to the Jaguar cage. It was within a short distance of the lion pit. Their troop, which had decreased to 4.3 baboons were relocated to a new exhibit as part of the Pridelands precinct in 1999.

Interestingly, a lot of visitors used to miss the main viewing area of this exhibit as you could bypass it, walking via the elephants; but if you looked up, you’d usually see them walking over the hill. The last of that troop died in 2008, with a loaned male rotating use of the exhibit with a troop of Hamadryas baboon, that was founded in 2009.

Wellington Zoo held Chacma baboon in a cage, which in classic taxonomic arrangement was next to the original Hamadryas baboon cage. I don’t have the date the last one passed, but would have been around the 1980’s.

Melbourne’s Chacma baboon troop were in a row, which at one point included Mandrill, Chacma baboon, Hamadryas baboon and Southern pig-tailed macaque. The Chacma baboon troop were euthansied in the early 1990’s.

 

[Zoofan15]

@tetrapod @Jambo

A reminder this is a thread to discuss baboons of the region, not general Melbourne Zoo history or other species in the region.

Please continue unrelated discussions in one of the many Melbourne Zoo history threads.

 

[steveroberts]

Steve, have you got a reference for these guys? Never heard of ASM in Australia before.

Hey I'll email you a screenshot of the online conversation I had with where I was told. Its not much to go on and tbh I was quite surprised too. A glimpse at cites too showed no mention of any ASM's being imported 1975-1990s which led me to wonder if it was accurate or my speculation was perhaps Bullen's Animal World had one or two in the late 1960s's/early 1970's which they gave to Emmanuelle Margolin the eccentric owner of Notre Dame Zoo.

 

[Pertinax]

They were once held by a number of Australasian zoos including Auckland, Wellington, Melbourne and Taronga. Auckland was the last of these to hold them - with plans to phase them out in place from the early 1990’s. I enjoyed seeing the remnants of their troop in the 2000’s.

Do you know if there are any photos of any of these Chacmas in the Australasian Zoochat galleries?

 

[Zoofan15]

Do you know if there are any photos of any of these Chacmas in the Australasian Zoochat galleries?

Auckland Zoo Photos

This is a photo by @CarLarchameleon of Auckland Zoo’s old exhibit from the mid-90’s:



This is a photo by @JimmyBanks in 2008 of a Chacma baboon in the new/current exhibit (opened 1999):



Here’s a photo by myself from 2021 of the new/current exhibit (opened 1999), which now houses Hamadryas baboon. Chacma baboon occupied this exhibit (rotating with Hamadryas baboon from 2009) until the death of the last Chacma baboon in 2011:

 

[Pertinax]

Auckland Zoo Photos

This is a photo by @CarLarchameleon of Auckland Zoo’s old exhibit from the mid-90’s:

View attachment 589810

This is a photo by @JimmyBanks in 2008 of a Chacma baboon in the new/current exhibit (opened 1999):

View attachment 589811

Here’s a photo by myself from 2021 of the new/current exhibit (opened 1999), which now houses Hamadryas baboon. Chacma baboon occupied this exhibit (rotating with Hamadryas baboon from 2009) until the death of the last Chacma baboon in 2011:

View attachment 589812

Thankyou for looking these out. Very interesting. I certainly visited Auckland during that period but don't recollect the cage or inmate(s) sadly.

 

[steveroberts]

Thankgod the last Chacma's got to get out of that abomination of a cage and live for a few years in the current Hamadryas exhibit, a paradise in comparison to the jail cell they were in before just by looking at the photo comparisons. Pretty much identical architecture and set-up situation to that the Hamadryas Baboons & Sulawesi Macaques at Perth Zoo endured until '96; and Taronga's '49-'94 setup for their Orangutans (and Chimps' until 1980). Sorry @Zoofan15 not to diverge from topic again.

Sadly the setup at the Baboon research facility is more setup like the horrible archaic enclosures, but being connected to one another gives the probably mistaken look of the Baboons having potentially more space to roam if sliding doors were opened up..but tbh think the centre only having a handful of TAFE animal husbandry students visiting and that's it from outside public seeing the place they don't have to concern themselves with the public backlash of maintaining their Baboons in the out-dated manner they do. A class-mate of mine took photos of the visit, havent been in contact with her for a number of years now sadly but if her number and or email is still the same will drop her a line to say hello and see if she still has copies of the photos she took and if could get copies from her.

found this in meantime: https://www.news.com.au/technology/...t/news-story/88babacbd7577c791aa6843360cc788a

 

[Zoofan15]

Thankgod the last Chacma's got to get out of that abomination of a cage and live for a few years in the current Hamadryas exhibit, a paradise in comparison to the jail cell they were in before just by looking at the photo comparisons.

The cage certainly looks archaic by today’s standards. There was a clip of it in the first season of The Zoo in 1999, which was interesting to see years later. The zoo had 4.3 adults at the time of the move, but previously held a troop which reached double figures.

I don’t know what year Auckland Zoo acquired Chacma baboon, but they were there and breeding from at least the 1950’s and could have been imported as early as the 1920’s (the decade the zoo opened).

 

[Abbey]

The cage certainly looks archaic by today’s standards. There was a clip of it in the first season of The Zoo in 1999, which was interesting to see years later. The zoo had 4.3 adults at the time of the move, but previously held a troop which reached double figures.

I don’t know what year Auckland Zoo acquired Chacma baboon, but they were there and breeding from at least the 1950’s and could have been imported as early as the 1920’s (the decade the zoo opened).

The episode of The Zoo you're referring to was, I believe, on YouTube, although when I looked for it yesterday, I couldn't seem to find it.

If I do track it down, I'll post the link in one of the Auckland Zoo threads.

 

[Zoofan15]

The episode of The Zoo you're referring to was, I believe, on YouTube, although when I looked for it yesterday, I couldn't seem to find it.

If I do track it down, I'll post the link in one of the Auckland Zoo threads.

That’s right. It’s been appearing and disappearing about every two years on YouTube - a previous link somebody posted on here notes it’s currently been taken down.

The original/full episode also showed the Chacma baboon’s back of house facilities. The Best of the Zoo series just showed a shot of the old exhibit, which was interesting nonetheless.

 

[Zoofan15]

Phase One - Research Current Population: Crocodylus Park

Crocodylus Park has 3.0 Hamadryas baboon:

From Alma Park Zoo:

1.0 Dolus (1993)
1.0 Scooby (1999) Dolus x Unknown

From Unknown:

1.0 Ruben (2013)

Information required:

Parentage for all three baboons; and zoo of origin for Ruben (I’m assuming Darling Downs Zoo, but confirmation would be appreciated).

——————————————

Phase One - Research Current Population: Banana Cabana

Banana Cabana has 2.0 Hamadryas baboon:

From Darling Downs Zoo:

1.0 Troth (2016)
1.0 Babi (2018)

Information required:

Parentage of these two males.

 

[Zoofan15]

Phase One - Research Current Population: Wildlife HQ

Wildlife HQ has 2.4 Hamadryas baboon:

From Wellington Zoo (via Melbourne Zoo):

0.1 Abeba (2004) Albert x Grit

From Alma Park Zoo:

0.1 Genie (2000)
0.1 Layla (2010) Scooby x Genie
1.0 Tehuti (2011) Scooby x Genie

Born at Wildlife HQ:

0.1 Zola (2014) Scooby x Genie
0.1 Zendaya (2021) Tehuti x Abeba

Information required:

Parentage of Genie.

 

[Jambo]

Re. Adelaide.

What happened to Horus?

Also it appears from photos the mother of the newest infant is indeed Chappi - dosen’t look to be a young female.