ZooChat Challenge Global 2023 - 10th Anniversary Special!

[ThylacineAlive]

One other clarification regarding a challenge. I know during the North American Mammals challenge, Central America was not considered part of North America, even though geographically it is part of the continent. For this passerine challenge, can Central American species Count or does the species need to be native to Mexico, USA, and/or Canda?

I am counting Central America in order to make this a little easier on everyone! Let's leave out the Caribbean, though, I think, since the Lesser Antilles in particular get a lot of birds from South America and I don't want to complicate things by making only part of the Caribbean count.

~Thylo

 

[CGSwans]

Hmm I'm a little torn on this. For one, there is a reason the rule exists. These games have had issues with people choosing to be extremely vague in their reporting. On the other hand, you're correct in that it's a bit of a daunting task here, and entirely unnecessary really in the challenges where the select animals you're targeting are already listed out for you.

I think if people preferred we could relax on the rules here for this one, but only where it really is clear. For lesser known species (I would argue including the death adder in your example even) and for any fishes and inverts some may choose to include, please add the scientific name still. The exception being for challenges like Embrace the ABCs or Usborne where the species are already chosen for you.

If we're doing this, though, I'm not going to hold myself or @ZooBinh to having to work extra hard to police everyone. If anyone clearly is adding species ambiguously and ignores a warning, we're likely going to just stop tracking your score as opposed to continuously egging on about it. I trust everyone here, though, to know well enough when something needs more clarity!

~Thylo

Thanks for the considered response. I think we can reasonably police it collectively: if a game participant has reason to think a species ID is unclear they can request confirmation of the Latin name. The player claiming the species can then do the necessary work to confirm the ID on an as-required basis, without the labour of looking up/transcribing what may prove to be hundreds of names just in case.

 

[CGSwans]

Oh, one more thing. For the Australian natives challenge, please reconsider the inclusion of Australian magpie. They are a very common urban species here, and consequently are only generally kept in captivity as non-releasable rescued individuals. I have access to the ZAA census from January 2020, at which point they were only present in four collections. Including this species makes the challenge a fair bit harder than I suspect you intended it to be.

 

[15399]

Hmm I'm a little torn on this. For one, there is a reason the rule exists. These games have had issues with people choosing to be extremely vague in their reporting. On the other hand, you're correct in that it's a bit of a daunting task here, and entirely unnecessary really in the challenges where the select animals you're targeting are already listed out for you.

I think if people preferred we could relax on the rules here for this one, but only where it really is clear. For lesser known species (I would argue including the death adder in your example even) and for any fishes and inverts some may choose to include, please add the scientific name still. The exception being for challenges like Embrace the ABCs or Usborne where the species are already chosen for you.

If we're doing this, though, I'm not going to hold myself or @ZooBinh to having to work extra hard to police everyone. If anyone clearly is adding species ambiguously and ignores a warning, we're likely going to just stop tracking your score as opposed to continuously egging on about it. I trust everyone here, though, to know well enough when something needs more clarity!

~Thylo

Personally, I go the other way on this one. If only one name is to be required, it should be the scientific name instead of the common name, especially since this is a global challenge. There are way too many species with either multiple common names (oftentimes different common names in different locations, hence the problem with this being a global challenge), or one common name applying to multiple species (especially an issue with reptiles, fish, Invertebrates, etc.) Sure, there is a number of common names with a universal meaning (e.g. everyone should know that "Tiger" means Panthera tigris), however there are way more common names that are ambiguous- including some common zoo animals. I could easily see this being a big problem rather quickly, especially due to some common names being regionally used, leading to North American members confused about a name used by European members or vice versa. Latin names are easily definable, and everyone has access to the same database of names, leading to a reliable, universal naming system that will make this challenge more understandable for all of us.

 

[Skukuza]

Excited for this challenge! wont be in contention to win it but will have fun participating!

Just headed over to this years North America challenge thread to see how people are reporting their progress as I was unsure on how to present back so much info!

I see quite a large excel spreadsheet in my future!

 

[CGSwans]

Personally, I go the other way on this one. If only one name is to be required, it should be the scientific name instead of the common name, especially since this is a global challenge. There are way too many species with either multiple common names (oftentimes different common names in different locations, hence the problem with this being a global challenge), or one common name applying to multiple species (especially an issue with reptiles, fish, Invertebrates, etc.) Sure, there is a number of common names with a universal meaning (e.g. everyone should know that "Tiger" means Panthera tigris), however there are way more common names that are ambiguous- including some common zoo animals. I could easily see this being a big problem rather quickly, especially due to some common names being regionally used, leading to North American members confused about a name used by European members or vice versa. Latin names are easily definable, and everyone has access to the same database of names, leading to a reliable, universal naming system that will make this challenge more understandable for all of us.

Except that most of us don’t know a lot of Latin names off the top of our heads. Your suggestion still requires a whole lot of research and bookkeeping in order to play. Honestly, it was just barely worth it for some of the more speciose challenges of recent years as it is.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Thanks for the considered response. I think we can reasonably police it collectively: if a game participant has reason to think a species ID is unclear they can request confirmation of the Latin name. The player claiming the species can then do the necessary work to confirm the ID on an as-required basis, without the labour of looking up/transcribing what may prove to be hundreds of names just in case.

Personally, I go the other way on this one. If only one name is to be required, it should be the scientific name instead of the common name, especially since this is a global challenge. There are way too many species with either multiple common names (oftentimes different common names in different locations, hence the problem with this being a global challenge), or one common name applying to multiple species (especially an issue with reptiles, fish, Invertebrates, etc.) Sure, there is a number of common names with a universal meaning (e.g. everyone should know that "Tiger" means Panthera tigris), however there are way more common names that are ambiguous- including some common zoo animals. I could easily see this being a big problem rather quickly, especially due to some common names being regionally used, leading to North American members confused about a name used by European members or vice versa. Latin names are easily definable, and everyone has access to the same database of names, leading to a reliable, universal naming system that will make this challenge more understandable for all of us.

I share your concern @Neil chace, however I'm willing to see how it goes.

I would ask that people do be mindful where species share the same general name in different regions. I do not want to see simply "blackbird" or "robin" given as anyone's answer!

~Thylo

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Oh, one more thing. For the Australian natives challenge, please reconsider the inclusion of Australian magpie. They are a very common urban species here, and consequently are only generally kept in captivity as non-releasable rescued individuals. I have access to the ZAA census from January 2020, at which point they were only present in four collections. Including this species makes the challenge a fair bit harder than I suspect you intended it to be.

You would be correct there! Would Blue-Faced Honeyeater be a more acceptable passerine?

~Thylo

 

[15399]

You would be correct there! Would Blue-Faced Honeyeater be a more acceptable passerine?

~Thylo

I was under the impression that challenge was meant to be on the difficult side. Especially given the blue Iguana for us North American participants, which while present in approx. 20 collections has a strong regional bias to it (i.e. none in Canada, none in Pacific northwest, none in Plains states, only one holder in northeast). Also the barn Owl, which is going to be difficult to confirm as specifically American Barn Owls, judging by the fact every zoo I've been to signs this species simply as "Barn Owl"- with no regards to American vs. European.

 

[CGSwans]

You would be correct there! Would Blue-Faced Honeyeater be a more acceptable passerine?

~Thylo

I think so, though it’s already featured in another challenge. If you wanted a relatively common passerine for that challenge, a good option might be the Gouldian finch, which I think is probably present in at least one collection in each major population centre (@WhistlingKite24 might need to confirm for SE Qld.)

The other one that comes to mind as a potential problem is the hissing cockroaches, which I don’t *think* are present in Australia (I’ve never been much of an invert guy). Our ‘ABC’ invert is probably the goliath stick insect.

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

The other one that comes to mind as a potential problem is the hissing cockroaches, which I don’t *think* are present in Australia (I’ve never been much of an invert guy). Our ‘ABC’ invert is probably the goliath stick insect.

That kinda surprises me. I can't speak for Australians, being British and all, but I've always imagined the Hissing Cockroach as THE "must-have" invertebrate for any zoo....basically the meerkat of insects.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I think so, though it’s already featured in another challenge. If you wanted a relatively common passerine for that challenge, a good option might be the Gouldian finch, which I think is probably present in at least one collection in each major population centre (@WhistlingKite24 might need to confirm for SE Qld.)

The other one that comes to mind as a potential problem is the hissing cockroaches, which I don’t *think* are present in Australia (I’ve never been much of an invert guy). Our ‘ABC’ invert is probably the goliath stick insect.

I think a finch would be good. How does Double-Barred Finch work for Australia?

I'm okay with the stick insect as a substitute.

I was under the impression that challenge was meant to be on the difficult side. Especially given the blue Iguana for us North American participants, which while present in approx. 20 collections has a strong regional bias to it (i.e. none in Canada, none in Pacific northwest, none in Plains states, only one holder in northeast). Also the barn Owl, which is going to be difficult to confirm as specifically American Barn Owls, judging by the fact every zoo I've been to signs this species simply as "Barn Owl"- with no regards to American vs. European.

It can be difficult, but doesn't need to be "only kept in 4 rescue centers" difficult

~Thylo

 

[CGSwans]

That kinda surprises me. I can't speak for Australians, being British and all, but I've always imagined the Hissing Cockroach as THE "must-have" invertebrate for any zoo....basically the meerkat of insects.

They are indeed the flamingoes of the undergrowth. Oh. Wait.

 

[15399]

I think a finch would be good. How does Double-Barred Finch work for Australia?

I'm okay with the stick insect as a substitute.


It can be difficult, but doesn't need to be "only kept in 4 rescue centers" difficult

~Thylo

What then constitutes an "American Barn Owl"? I've never heard of American being attached to barn owl before today, and every zoo I've been to has labeled them as just "Barn Owl", with the scientific name Tyto alba. Are these all "American" Barn Owls, or is this a more specific designation? If so, how would one go about determining if the Barn Owls at a certain zoo are "American"?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

What then constitutes an "American Barn Owl"? I've never heard of American being attached to barn owl before today, and every zoo I've been to has labeled them as just "Barn Owl", with the scientific name Tyto alba. Are these all "American" Barn Owls, or is this a more specific designation? If so, how would one go about determining if the Barn Owls at a certain zoo are "American"?

All the barn owls in the US are the North American taxa bar a few individuals at the World Bird Sanctuary. Should WBS somehow be where someone gets a barn owl, you can still count it regardless.

~Thylo

 

[Ursus]

Personally, I go the other way on this one. If only one name is to be required, it should be the scientific name instead of the common name, especially since this is a global challenge. There are way too many species with either multiple common names (oftentimes different common names in different locations, hence the problem with this being a global challenge), or one common name applying to multiple species (especially an issue with reptiles, fish, Invertebrates, etc.) Sure, there is a number of common names with a universal meaning (e.g. everyone should know that "Tiger" means Panthera tigris), however there are way more common names that are ambiguous- including some common zoo animals. I could easily see this being a big problem rather quickly, especially due to some common names being regionally used, leading to North American members confused about a name used by European members or vice versa. Latin names are easily definable, and everyone has access to the same database of names, leading to a reliable, universal naming system that will make this challenge more understandable for all of us.

if done with scientific only names it would also be best to fully write out the names and not abbreviate like you will see people do from time to time. So Panthera tigris instead of P. tigris or
P. t. altaica

Cause whilst with mammals this may be more obvious, with fishes and reptiles not everyone knows all the genera, so the it becomes just as annoying to figure out which exact species is being refered to.

 

[Chlidonias]

Most of these challenges are impossible to complete (or even to start, in many cases) in New Zealand

However regarding this particular challenge below, it is specifically for NZ and yet is still impossible to complete:

Native Species Challenge (based off NA 2021)
See all 5 assigned species native to your continent. No mix-matching for you international players.

• New Zealand: New Zealand Fur Seal, Blue Duck, Northland Green Gecko, Leiopelma sp., New Zealand Longfin Eel

There are no NZ Fur Seals in captivity in NZ any more. The only pinniped in any zoo here is one Subantarctic Fur Seal at Auckland Zoo.

Also the only Leiopelma on display is at Auckland Zoo. (Wellington technically has a species on display but it is not an exhibit in which it is possible to see the animal in reality, and the last time I was there the tank was completely empty anyway).

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Most of these challenges are impossible to complete (or even to start, in many cases) in New Zealand

However regarding this particular challenge below, it is specifically for NZ and yet is still impossible to complete:


There are no NZ Fur Seals in captivity in NZ any more. The only pinniped in any zoo here is one Subantarctic Fur Seal at Auckland Zoo.

Also the only Leiopelma on display is at Auckland Zoo. (Wellington technically has a species on display but it is not an exhibit in which it is possible to see the animal in reality, and the last time I was there the tank was completely empty anyway).

Noted!

~Thylo

 

[Kalaw]

2022: Don't Turn On the Lights
See 10 species of ANY kind in a nocturnal exhibit. The exhibit does not have to be a full nocturnal house, any reverse-lighting or purposefully dim-lit exhibit counts. If you visit a nocturnal exhibit and the lights haven't been reversed yet, that still counts!
~Thylo

Is it pushing the definition too far to count reverse-lighting or dim-lit indoor exhibits even when outdoors are present (naturally assuming that you saw the animals indoors)?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Is it pushing the definition too far to count reverse-lighting or dim-lit indoor exhibits even when outdoors are present (naturally assuming that you saw the animals indoors)?

What do you mean by this?

~Thylo