Edinburgh Zoo Farewell Plans for Giant Pandas at Edinburgh Zoo

[Rajang-GOAT]

Giant farewell plans for panda pair at Edinburgh Zoo | Edinburgh Zoo
"Yang Guang and Tian Tian arrived in Edinburgh in December 2011 as part of a 10-year arrangement between RZSS and the China Wildlife Conservation Association, which was extended by two years due to the Covid-19 pandemic. The giant pandas could leave the capital as early as the end of October 2023 with travel details to be confirmed closer to the time."
" RZSS has pledged to reverse the decline of at least 50 species by 2030 and the charity intends to convert the zoo’s giant panda habitat to welcome a new animal in the future."

This is a news article on the looming departure of Edinburgh Zoo's pair of Giant Pandas, as early as October 2023 as their contact ends this year. It also mentions their "Giant farewell" plans for 2023, and a vague idea of some of their plans for the future with the area freed up.

 

[dillotest0]

Giant farewell plans for panda pair at Edinburgh Zoo | Edinburgh Zoo
"Yang Guang and Tian Tian arrived in Edinburgh in December 2011 as part of a 10-year arrangement between RZSS and the China Wildlife Conservation Association, which was extended by two years due to the Covid-19 pandemic. The giant pandas could leave the capital as early as the end of October 2023 with travel details to be confirmed closer to the time."
" RZSS has pledged to reverse the decline of at least 50 species by 2030 and the charity intends to convert the zoo’s giant panda habitat to welcome a new animal in the future."

This is a news article on the looming departure of Edinburgh Zoo's pair of Giant Pandas, as early as October 2023 as their contact ends this year. It also mentions their "Giant farewell" plans for 2023, and a vague idea of some of their plans for the future with the area freed up.

Part of me worries for Edinburgh's future without pandas - as their animal collection in general has declined over the last several years, Edinburgh Zoo will be left as a place without much incentive other than its location ...

 

[Daubentoniidae]

Part of me worries for Edinburgh's future without pandas - as their animal collection in general has declined over the last several years, Edinburgh Zoo will be left as a place without much incentive other than its location ...

At least they can boast having the giraffes now as well as the only koalas outside of Longleat. Those are still merits for the place as well a few other key species. Perhaps with the departure of the pandas the collection might also start to recover.

 

[Rajang21]

Part of me worries for Edinburgh's future without pandas - as their animal collection in general has declined over the last several years, Edinburgh Zoo will be left as a place without much incentive other than its location ...

The continued cost of the pandas has likely been involved in that decline in species held. Hopefully the money saved on their loan fee and upkeep will be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Dassie rat]

Colin Tudge wrote 'Last Animals in the Zoo'. He said that zoos should have at least 2 giant pandas competing for the attention of a female in oestrus. Most zoos have 1 male and 1 female.

 

[Rajang-GOAT]

I also hope that this can become almost as much of a positive as it is a negative, but I think the biggest question left by this departure is which UK zoo will be next to obtain Giant Pandas, or will Edinburgh Zoo's pair not be replaced in the UK for the foreseeable future?

 

[lintworm]

Part of me worries for Edinburgh's future without pandas - as their animal collection in general has declined over the last several years, Edinburgh Zoo will be left as a place without much incentive other than its location ...

Economic studies have shown that pandas actually cost you money on the longer term, especially if you don't get them to breed. So this should be a way in which money is freed to invest in more than just blob bears. Many of the zoos that recently obtained panda would do it for the prestige alone and not care about the cost. That works if you have a rich owner or are an economical powerhouse, but not if you are Edinburgh...

I also hope that this can become almost as much of a positive as it is a negative, but I think the biggest question left by this departure is which UK zoo will be next to obtain Giant Pandas, or will Edinburgh Zoo's pair not be replaced in the UK for the foreseeable future?

I wouldn't expect new pandas soon, they are increasingly a political tool from China, which already took a lot of lobbying from high government officials to obtain. With worsening European - Chinese relations, I wouldn't expect a lot....

 

[Quincey]

Tickets for the following events and experiences will be available from Monday 9 January.
Please read our FAQs below before booking.

Bamboo Brunch

Wake up and smell the bamboo! On select dates between March and July, start your day with a guided tour up to Yang Guang and Tian Tian’s home here at the zoo.

Join a one-hour tour where you will discover more about this beloved species with our charity's giant panda experts before enjoying a delicious brunch in our mansion house and exploring the zoo for the rest of the day.

Price

Adult: £48.50 (Adult RZSS member/patron: £32.50)

Carer: £17

Child: £30 (Child RZSS member/patron: £18)

Pandas and Pancakes
Have a BEAR-rilliant breakfast and tour! On select dates between February and July, start your day with a guided tour up to visit Yang Guang and Tian Tian’s home at the zoo.

Learn all about this beloved species during a one-hour tour with our giant panda experts which will be followed by a delicious breakfast and themed crafts. Children will also make their own panda cuddly toy before roaming the zoo for the rest of the day!

Price

Adult: £29 (Adult RZSS member/patron: £15)

Carer: £13

Child: £33 (Child RZSS member/patron: £23)

Under 3s (no activity): £6 / Under 3s (with activity): £23

Giant Panda Magic Moments
We are excited to be able to offer an incredibly limited number of opportunities for RZSS members, patrons and giant panda adopters to feed giant panda Yang Guang before he returns to China.

Get closer than you ever imagined with our 30-minute Giant Panda Magic Moment. With this experience you’ll go behind-the-scenes and help our expert keepers feed Yang Guang a special treat while learning all about this beloved species. 

Become a member for the chance to book on Monday 9 January.

Price

Adult RZSS member/patron/giant panda adopter: £500

Please note this experience is for ages 16+ only.

Pandamonium Tours
To thank RZSS members, patrons and giant panda adopters for their support, we are offering the chance to book exclusive, free tours on select dates between February and July. Start your day with one of our experts for a one-hour guided tour up to Yang Guang and Tian Tian’s home at the top of the hill before we open our gates to other visitors.

This experience is available on a first come first served basis for RZSS members, patrons and giant panda adopters only. Become a member for the chance to book on Monday 9 January.

Price

RZSS member/patron/giant panda adopter: Free, booking required

Carer: Free, booking required

Directors Tour of Edinburgh Zoo
Create your own bespoke VIP experience for two at Edinburgh Zoo and enjoy Joint Patronage of the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland for one year!

This unique opportunity takes you behind-the-scenes to meet the animals you love most with RZSS director David Field as your expert guide. For a limited time only, this includes guaranteed access to meet and feed a giant panda – plus, four more animals of your choice. Directors Tours also include a luxurious breakfast, champagne lunch and unparalleled access to the zoo.

Price

£5,000 for two people

Giant panda Farewell | Edinburgh Zoo

 

[GeeZee]

The continued cost of the pandas has likely been involved in that decline in species held. Hopefully the money saved on their loan fee and upkeep will be better spent elsewhere.

I think comments like these are slightly too cynical, Yes the Pandas were expensive but i recently submitted a FOI request to the Scottish Government which highlights the finances of Edinburgh Zoo to be in a very good position as of the summer of 2022.

Before the Pandas arrived the Zoo was struggling, and visitor numbers were dropping (If i remember they were almost forced to sell some of their land), But the year after the pandas arrived visitor numbers went up by 200% and apart from the pandemic numbers have increased gradually each year. Seems like, they were a good investment after all. In general, Edinburgh will be much poorer without them.

Heres an article from 2010 (the year prior to the pandas arrival), given examples like these - I think people actually underestimate the significance of the pandas. Sadly, given the current political situation with China, I highly doubt Scotland , or the UK in general will get pandas again in my lifetime.

Edinburgh Zoo faces cuts after visitor numbers drop

 

[Charles]

Does anyone know what will replace them?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

But the year after the pandas arrived visitor numbers went up by 200%

That is an extremely wild and blatant exaggeration they actually went up by 51% from 536,000 to 811,000. A 200% rise would imply visitor numbers in 2012 of around 1,640,000!

and apart from the pandemic numbers have increased gradually each year. Seems like, they were a good investment after all.

That is also entirely untrue, as demonstrated by the visitor numbers cited within the annual reports released by RZSS - after the initial "panda boom" visitor numbers have been continuously falling, with pre-pandemic visitor numbers reaching figures lower than those prior to the arrival of the pandas. Considering the aforementioned annual reports directly cite the 2008-2010 recession as the primary cause of poor visitor numbers in the late 2000s, it says a lot that the zoo was doing worse prior to the pandemic than it was during a recession!

2009: 606,900 visitors
2010: 546,000 visitors
2011: 536,000 visitors
2012: 811,000 visitors (panda arrival)
2013: 761,000 visitors
2014: 672,000 visitors
2015: 633,000 visitors
2016: 574,000 visitors
2017: 520,000 visitors
2018: 510,000 visitors
2019: 529,000 visitors (new panda exhibit)

So, after the first four years of the giant pandas being present, visitor numbers were falling below those during the recession and pre-panda years, and contrary to your claims they have not increased at all beyond the first full year.

 

[felis silvestris]

That is an extremely wild and blatant exaggeration they actually went up by 51% from 546,000 to 811,000. A 200% rise would imply visitor numbers in 2012 of around 1,640,000!



That is also entirely untrue, as demonstrated by the visitor numbers cited within the annual reports released by RZSS - after the initial "panda boom" visitor numbers have been continuously falling, with pre-pandemic visitor numbers reaching figures lower than those prior to the arrival of the pandas. Considering the aforementioned annual reports directly cite the 2008-2010 recession as the primary cause of poor visitor numbers in the late 2000s, it says a lot that the zoo was doing worse prior to the pandemic than it was during a recession!

2009: 606,900 visitors
2010: 536,000 visitors
2011: 546,000 visitors
2012: 811,000 visitors (panda arrival)
2013: 761,000 visitors
2014: 672,000 visitors
2015: 633,000 visitors
2016: 574,000 visitors
2017: 520,000 visitors
2018: 510,000 visitors
2019: 529,000 visitors (new panda exhibit)

So, after the first four years of the giant pandas being present, visitor numbers were below those during the recession and pre-panda years, and contrary to your claims they have not increased at all beyond the first year.

Even apart from this, I think it is amazing that they got pandas since they a so rare in zoos and it is really something they will look on happily

 

[felis silvestris]

Does anyone know what will replace them?

According to the website, they haven’t decided yet.

 

[GeeZee]

That is an extremely wild and blatant exaggeration they actually went up by 51% from 536,000 to 811,000. A 200% rise would imply visitor numbers in 2012 of around 1,640,000!



That is also entirely untrue, as demonstrated by the visitor numbers cited within the annual reports released by RZSS - after the initial "panda boom" visitor numbers have been continuously falling, with pre-pandemic visitor numbers reaching figures lower than those prior to the arrival of the pandas. Considering the aforementioned annual reports directly cite the 2008-2010 recession as the primary cause of poor visitor numbers in the late 2000s, it says a lot that the zoo was doing worse prior to the pandemic than it was during a recession!

2009: 606,900 visitors
2010: 546,000 visitors
2011: 536,000 visitors
2012: 811,000 visitors (panda arrival)
2013: 761,000 visitors
2014: 672,000 visitors
2015: 633,000 visitors
2016: 574,000 visitors
2017: 520,000 visitors
2018: 510,000 visitors
2019: 529,000 visitors (new panda exhibit)

So, after the first four years of the giant pandas being present, visitor numbers were falling below those during the recession and pre-panda years, and contrary to your claims they have not increased at all beyond the first full year.

Hi there, didn’t expect a moderator to respond! I’m not so sure about that however, because it was reported in several media outlets at the time and this doesn’t take in account financial gains due to marketing / merchandise & sponsorship.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/panda-pair-increase-edinburgh-zoo-visitors-200-1645016?amp

The zoo also reported a 53% rise in profits the year of arrival which was double what the RZSS predicted at the time , compare that to the previous year which was almost a £1 million deficit….

https://www.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-zoo-pandas-bring-big-rise-profits-1576086?amp

I’m happy to provide some more figures and details, But I don’t think those figures you provided are entirely correct and contextual. Have you got the actual source of them?

I only say this because the figures given by the ALVA which is often cited in reports, including those of a governmental nature are a lot different from the ones you provided.

For example you say in 2018 there was only 510,000 yet according to the ALVA the zoo had 597,326 visitors that year which makes for a 8.5% rise from 2017. Odd.

As for the other things I’ve mentioned, I obtained them myself direct from the Scottish government, so maybe some might disagree - but I do believe that is a credible source.

 

[GeeZee]

The only thing that may be why they are a deficiency in the numbers (and this is entirely my speculation) perhaps your figures don’t include events, such as member tours / after dark tours or events like the Giant Lanterns of China , of which the Giant Pandas played a key role in, and we’re a mascot of.

 

[Rajang-GOAT]

Out of interest, what were the last Giant Pandas in the UK prior to the pair at Edinburgh, and when were they around?

 

[GeeZee]

Out of interest, what were the last Giant Pandas in the UK prior to the pair at Edinburgh, and when were they around?

In response to the previous question about what will replace them my guess is maybe some sort of primate, perhaps a gorilla or something like that.

I believe it was London Zoo that last had Pandas in the early 1990s.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Hi there, didn’t expect a moderator to respond!

My response is as a member of the community, rather than as a moderator as someone with quite a bit of love for Edinburgh Zoo I have something of a vested interest in keeping tabs on how they are faring!

I’m happy to provide some more figures and details, But I don’t think those figures you provided are entirely correct and contextual. Have you got the actual source of them?

The figures come directly from the RZSS Annual Reports, which are uploaded to their website each year - the last half-dozen of which are still available now, and prior editions are lurking around on the Wayback Machine, on the hard drives of those who downloaded them originally, and as paper copies sent to members.

RZSS Annual General Meeting | RZSS

To give the 2018 figures as an example, as you specifically questioned those and they're easy enough to screenshot from the PDF file on my phone:



It should be noted that I had the figures ready to hand from a prior discussion of this sort, in any case

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Checking the Scotsman article you cited, I've found the reason for your confusion re: the increase in visitors after the panda pair first arrived - the claimed 200% increase pertains specifically to visitors in December 2011 and January 2012 compared to the same period in 2010/11, not the entirety of 2012!



Note the date the article was published

The second article confirms the overall increase in visitors in 2012 was 51%, incidentally!

 

[GeeZee]

My response is as a member of the community, rather than as a moderator as someone with quite a bit of love for Edinburgh Zoo I have something of a vested interest in keeping tabs on how they are faring!



The figures come directly from the RZSS Annual Reports, which are uploaded to their website each year - the last half-dozen of which are still available now, and prior editions are lurking around on the Wayback Machine, on the hard drives of those who downloaded them originally, and as paper copies sent to members.

RZSS Annual General Meeting | RZSS

To give the 2018 figures as an example, as you specifically questioned those and they're easy enough to screenshot from the PDF file on my phone:

View attachment 600955

It should be noted that I had the figures ready to hand from a prior discussion of this sort, in any case

I have seen some of those reports before, but I’ll have a look so thanks for these, I believe on the RZSS site somewhere there are the more detailed annual reports & financial statements which are quite interesting.

Like I say though, these figures may not include events and things like that. Check out the figures given by the ALVA though too because they give a lot of information about a lot of prominent attractions all over the UK, from Zoos to castles.

Regardless, I believe the Zoo is in a much better position now as a result of the pandas and reports past and present will support that. I’m sure im not alone in being sorry to see them go.