Melbourne Zoo Future of Melbourne Zoo 2023 (Speculation / Fantasy)

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Holdings of Syrian brown bears have dwindled worldwide and even within Europe, there’s only a handful of holders. They were phased out of Australasian zoos to concentrate on the Malayan sun bear, which was seen as a better fit for the region being a tropical, South East Asian species.

Bears are extremely charismatic and I’m certain the public would love Sloth bears as much as we would.

I’m not aware of the ZAA having any interest in importing Corsac fox. It’s not on the live import list and there may be difficulties getting it added due to the risk of it establishing as a pest if accidentally released.

Malayan sun bear certainly didn’t pan out as anticipated… As much as I love sloth bear, and I certainly want them to get added to the region, part of me wants another bear species that might be a little rarer. I’m not sure what that would entail, but I fell like with sun bear on the way out, sloth bear or something has to place it. Can the region really feed off one bear species is the question

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

Malayan sun bear certainly didn’t pan out as anticipated… As much as I love sloth bear, and I certainly want them to get added to the region, part of me wants another bear species that might be a little rarer. I’m not sure what that would entail, but I fell like with sun bear on the way out, sloth bear or something has to place it. Can the region really feed off one bear species is the question

Do you mean rare for zoos, or rarer in the wild?

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Do you mean rare for zoos, or rarer in the wild?

A bit of both. The public would appreciate a more common bear that’s rarer in the region, but I’m completely impartial. Whether it be brown bear or Andean bear I’d appreciate either. I mean of course we can hope for a spirit bear to randomly turn up

 

[Zoofan15]

Malayan sun bear certainly didn’t pan out as anticipated… As much as I love sloth bear, and I certainly want them to get added to the region, part of me wants another bear species that might be a little rarer. I’m not sure what that would entail, but I fell like with sun bear on the way out, sloth bear or something has to place it. Can the region really feed off one bear species is the question

Most bear species including the Malayan sun bear, Sloth bear, Asiatic black bear and Andean bear are listed as Vulnerable. Ultimately the decision on whether to acquire one of these species needs to be made based on suitability to our region (especially with regards to the climate) and availability - both short term (to acquire) and long term (to ensure succession).

A bear species such as Sloth bear, which is held by many zoos globally and breeds readily indicates we’ll have no problems with sourcing them in decades to come - unlike the sun bear, which has similarly bred poorly in European and North American zoos.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Most bear species including the Malayan sun bear, Sloth bear, Asiatic black bear and Andean bear are listed as Vulnerable. Ultimately the decision on whether to acquire one of these species needs to be made based on suitability to our region (especially with regards to the climate) and availability - both short term (to acquire) and long term (to ensure succession).

A bear species such as Sloth bear, which is held by many zoos globally and breeds readily indicates we’ll have no problems with sourcing them in decades to come - unlike the sun bear, which has similarly bred poorly in European and North American zoos.

It’s a shame sun bears are being phased out of multiple regions. This is a species that really needs our help and I’m not sure where that help is coming from. Are any facilities In Australia actually a chance of producing cubs?

 

[Zoofan15]

It’s a shame sun bears are being phased out of multiple regions. This is a species that really needs our help and I’m not sure where that help is coming from. Are any facilities In Australia actually a chance of producing cubs?

Unfortunately not. Perth Zoo aren’t breeding due to space and the National Zoo have tried unsuccessfully to breed their pair for a number of years. Both are now elderly and the male has had health issues in recent years.

The other holders all have middle aged females, who could potentially breed if paired with a viable male. Ideally, Perth’s male would be paired with either Mary or Sasa (the third female is his daughter); but Perth have previously mentioned his trauma suffered at the hands of humans and I agree with their assessment it’s best for his welfare to remain at Perth Zoo.

 

[Jambo]

I’d love to see banteng. It’s very u likely unfortunately. Now maybe just maybe they could be an interim replacement considering they are endangered. I’d prefer to see chiral and blackbuck in with the Indian rhinos with filter gates that allow the smaller ungulates to pass through, but not the rhinos. @Jambo i heard someone mention that sloth bear and langur may be compatible, which would make for a great enclosure. Amazing you got to see semangka in her pool and a mini talk. Would love to see something like that myself

Sloth Bear and Langur have been trialed in zoos before. Not sure of the results, but I don’t think Melbourne would try such a thing. I’d like to see the first elephant enclosure used for Langurs, of which could potentially be grouped with Indian Rhino. The enclosure has that small temple like building overlooking the pool which I think the Langurs would fit perfectly theming wise. I personally think Sloth Bears would fit the final enclosure; due to its design.

 

[Jambo]

A bear mountain as suggested before would be amazing.
Indian rhino would be great but part of me feels that if they were to move to Werribee in 10 years, why not just start them at Werribee and be done with.
The main reason I point out that Indrah and Hutan will not be housed together is because Indrah is well known as the least social of the three tigers they had (back when Binjai was alive) and that Hutan and Binjai were housed near each other with the on-display enclosure Hutan is seen in today, and a sizeable off-display enclosure that is adjacent.
The two tigers would not be put in an enclosure together, and there isn't the same space to have the two over at Lion Gorge. If they were consolidated it would be more likely that Indrah would be moved over to the off-display enclosure in TOTE (probably with the two rotating enclosures) but again I'd highly doubt that, as from the way a keeper put it recently they have found it beneficial to have the two further away from each other in order to keep them both happier. Binjai and Hutan were happy in proximity together (though not in the same enclosure) where as Indrah was found to be less than happy in the proximity to the other two.
I think we are stuck with having them in two enclosures.

Although there is no current plans or talks to import any new tiger to breed, when Indrah and Hutan (or both) pass on, I feel MZ will at that stage import a new breeding pair, and would keep the two current on-display enclosures in order to still have the space for the species.

A bear mountain could be accomplished in the final elephant enclosure. It already has a bit of a ‘mountain feel to it’.

Re. Indian Rhinos, I fully agree. I think realistically, they’ll probably be end up at Werribee if anything. But considering Melbourne’s made the effort to largely move away from large ungulates since the start of the century, I doubt they’d go and add another back (even if it was to replace the elephants).

I’ve heard the same re. Indrah. But the statement that she dosen’t like being around Binjai and Hutan I think is largely untrue. She was rotating habitat with Hutan for many years without problems. And then did so with Binjai for a period when Binjai moved back to the TOTE complex. Melbourne initially planned to move Hutan to the Carnivores trail exhibit but he wasn’t able to be crate trained quick enough. He’s very lazy (they call him a sleepy head) and not as curious as Indrah and Binjai.

Melbourne will hopefully import a breeding pair once Indrah and Hutan pass; of which will probably rotate the TOTE enclosure. There’s adequate space behind that enclosure. They have a whole complex for big cats; and as far as I’m aware, it’s currently sitting empty. Melbourne could afford to hold surplus cubs there.

 

[Zoofan15]

A bear mountain could be accomplished in the final elephant enclosure. It already has a bit of a ‘mountain feel to it’.

Re. Indian Rhinos, I fully agree. I think realistically, they’ll probably be end up at Werribee if anything. But considering Melbourne’s made the effort to largely move away from large ungulates since the start of the century, I doubt they’d go and add another back (even if it was to replace the elephants).

I’ve heard the same re. Indrah. But the statement that she dosen’t like being around Binjai and Hutan I think is largely untrue. She was rotating habitat with Hutan for many years without problems. And then did so with Binjai for a period when Binjai moved back to the TOTE complex. Melbourne initially planned to move Hutan to the Carnivores trail exhibit but he wasn’t able to be crate trained quick enough. He’s very lazy (they call him a sleepy head) and not as curious as Indrah and Binjai.

Melbourne will hopefully import a breeding pair once Indrah and Hutan pass; of which will probably rotate the TOTE enclosure. There’s adequate space behind that enclosure. They have a whole complex for big cats; and as far as I’m aware, it’s currently sitting empty. Melbourne could afford to hold surplus cubs there.

Sloth Bear Mountain is the obvious solution to Melbourne’s problem of needing an attraction to replace the elephants.

The four biggest public drawcards are elephants, great apes, big cats and bears - with the latter being a notable gap in their collection (especially when you consider Taronga, Adelaide and Perth all have bears).

Bears are charismatic. They conjure up nostalgic memories for those who visited zoos in an era where multiple species of bears and big cats were on display; as well as being a species that’s fully ingrained in pop culture (children’s stories, cartoons etc).

An adequate bear exhibit would be underwhelming. Melbourne need to seize the opportunity to design an architectural masterpiece that like the Lion Park and Gorilla Rainforest, inspire generations of visitors for decades to come.

 

[Jambo]

Sloth Bear Mountain is the obvious solution to Melbourne’s problem of needing an attraction to replace the elephants.

The four biggest public drawcards are elephants, great apes, big cats and bears - with the latter being a notable gap in their collection (especially when you consider Taronga, Adelaide and Perth all have bears).

Bears are charismatic. They conjure up nostalgic memories for those who visited zoos in an era where multiple species of bears and big cats were on display; as well as being a species that’s fully ingrained in pop culture (children’s stories, cartoons etc).

An adequate bear exhibit would be underwhelming. Melbourne need to seize the opportunity to design an architectural masterpiece that like the Lion Park and Gorilla Rainforest, inspire generations of visitors for decades to come.

I really like the design of the old bear enclosure, and I feel like something similar (yet on a grander scale) could be reproduced in the final enclosure of TOTE.

Here's a photo of it:

You can see that there's a lot of space to work with, and the rocky designs already semi simulate different climbing opportunities. The exhibit also slopes away before the path, so they already have a decent barrier. They'd just need to add a more suitable fence line around the back of the enclosure. I feel like if they allow grass to grow, and more trees were incorporated in this enclosure, it could quite a wonderful exhibit. They would also have the opportunity to add a viewing window to the left of this photo, where there's a viewing area that comes right up to the current paddock.

This would be a perfect fit in my eyes and should definitely be something Melbourne consider.

 

[Jambo]

Here's an interesting comparison of the former Bear and Snow Leopard enclosure from virtually the same viewpoint (taken a decade apart):

Old Syrian Bear enclosure (2008)

Current Snow Leopard enclosure (2018)

 

[Zoofan15]

I really like the design of the old bear enclosure, and I feel like something similar (yet on a grander scale) could be reproduced in the final enclosure of TOTE.

Here's a photo of it:

You can see that there's a lot of space to work with, and the rocky designs already semi simulate different climbing opportunities. The exhibit also slopes away before the path, so they already have a decent barrier. They'd just need to add a more suitable fence line around the back of the enclosure. I feel like if they allow grass to grow, and more trees were incorporated in this enclosure, it could quite a wonderful exhibit. They would also have the opportunity to add a viewing window to the left of this photo, where there's a viewing area that comes right up to the current paddock.

This would be a perfect fit in my eyes and should definitely be something Melbourne consider.

I was thinking of something more along the lines of a modern day Mappin Terraces. By incorporating all three elephant paddocks, a large mountain face could be constructed, with the main bear exhibits down below.

The langurs would inhabit the cliff face, with the bears able to traverse terraces that extend the length of the mountain.

There would be the additional option to house an ungulate species on the lowest level (seperate from the bears) - this way ensuring multiple species are represented.

Potentially, an aquarium could be built within the cavity of the mountain, which would obviously be a hollow shell.

Mappin Terraces and Pavilion | London Zoo

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

@Zoofan15 @Jambo
What do you envision the foliage looking like? Would you want a jungle feel or a dry feel with hints of foliage? I personally think it would be interesting to have 2 enclosures for sloth bear, one more luscious than the other. This would mean Indian Rhino would be at WORZ if in Victoria at all. That leaves the final exhibit up to interpretation. The aforementioned Sri Lankan leopard is from the same area, while Gaur and other asian ungulates could be good options. If this is a theme to go with then potentially one of the rarely used aviaries could house Indian Muntjac or mouse deer? Wouldn’t be a draw card but a certain destination

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 @Jambo
What do you envision the foliage looking like? Would you want a jungle feel or a dry feel with hints of foliage? I personally think it would be interesting to have 2 enclosures for sloth bear, one more luscious than the other. This would mean Indian Rhino would be at WORZ if in Victoria at all. That leaves the final exhibit up to interpretation. The aforementioned Sri Lankan leopard is from the same area, while Gaur and other asian ungulates could be good options. If this is a theme to go with then potentially one of the rarely used aviaries could house Indian Muntjac or mouse deer? Wouldn’t be a draw card but a certain destination

Sloth bear inhabit a range of habitats from grasslands to dry and wet tropical forests. We want visitors to see the bears and we don’t want dense foliage to shield the view of the langurs above, so my preference would be for relatively sparse foliage cover - with nothing beyond the shade requirements and a couple of trees for climbing.

With regards to integrating the Sri Lankan leopards, they would need to put them on the same level as the bears (below the langurs; above the ungulates) - as they’d otherwise dislike the presence of the bears above them. My preference would be to have three mountain peaks corresponding to three exhibits - two with bears; one with leopards.

 

[Jambo]

@Zoofan15 @Jambo
What do you envision the foliage looking like? Would you want a jungle feel or a dry feel with hints of foliage? I personally think it would be interesting to have 2 enclosures for sloth bear, one more luscious than the other. This would mean Indian Rhino would be at WORZ if in Victoria at all. That leaves the final exhibit up to interpretation. The aforementioned Sri Lankan leopard is from the same area, while Gaur and other asian ungulates could be good options. If this is a theme to go with then potentially one of the rarely used aviaries could house Indian Muntjac or mouse deer? Wouldn’t be a draw card but a certain destination

It wouldn’t need much foliage imo, maybe a few trees but thats about it. Sloth Bears aren’t primarily ‘forest bears’ and can inhabit mountain sides and woodlands as well.

Melbourne could easily convert the cow paddock into a second Sloth Bear enclosure too if they wished.

That would leave the first paddock. There’s many ideas that can be considered. Langurs; Orangutan expansion; Komodo Dragons? If Sloth Bears were to be imported, Langurs would make sense. But I could see Komodo Dragons also getting an enclosure there too; they could split the enclosure in half.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Sloth bear inhabit a range of habitats from grasslands to dry and wet tropical forests. We want visitors to see the bears and we don’t want dense foliage to shield the view of the langurs above, so my preference would be for relatively sparse foliage cover - with nothing beyond the shade requirements and a couple of trees for climbing.

With regards to integrating the Sri Lankan leopards, they would need to put them on the same level as the bears (below the langurs; above the ungulates) - as they’d otherwise dislike the presence of the bears above them. My preference would be to have three mountain peaks corresponding to three exhibits - two with bears; one with leopards.

Very interesting that the leopards would like to be on the same level as the bears. Since they can climb, having them on relatively similar terrain shouldn’t be too bad I wouldn’t think.
@Jambo
It was indicated in that atrocious masterplan the MZ plan to acquire Komodo dragon, which is great news but should come with a grain of salt. I’m not sure if that paddock would be optimal for viewing, which is why I believe they would be a good addition to the carnivore precinct in favour of devils for some more diversity. I’d love to see the orangutans expanded onto the adjacent island, which currently is just a resting place for bin chickens. Hence why ungulates and felids have been floated. Do you think there could be a fragment of the sloth bear enclosure in which only the langurs can reach, of not just a small offshoot exhibit in itself. I’d love to see al the things you mentioned eventuate

 

[Zoofan15]

Very interesting that the leopards would like to be on the same level as the bears. Since they can climb, having them on relatively similar terrain shouldn’t be too bad I wouldn’t think.
@Jambo
It was indicated in that atrocious masterplan the MZ plan to acquire Komodo dragon, which is great news but should come with a grain of salt. I’m not sure if that paddock would be optimal for viewing, which is why I believe they would be a good addition to the carnivore precinct in favour of devils for some more diversity. I’d love to see the orangutans expanded onto the adjacent island, which currently is just a resting place for bin chickens. Hence why ungulates and felids have been floated. Do you think there could be a fragment of the sloth bear enclosure in which only the langurs can reach, of not just a small offshoot exhibit in itself. I’d love to see al the things you mentioned eventuate

Generally speaking, felids don’t like to have anything looking down on them - from the visitors to other animals. Like the bears, they’d enjoy a couple of trees, with branches large enough to lay down on to survey the people/herbivores below.

My idea for Sloth Bear Mountain was to model it on Mappin Terraces, which means the langurs would be separated from the Sloth bears; with the allusion they’re sharing an exhibit space. They would reside on the cliffs of the mountain peak above the bears and leopards on the terraces below. Terraces make for efficient use of space - which is essential in a city zoo.

 

[PaddyRickMFZ]

Generally speaking, felids don’t like to have anything looking down on them - from the visitors to other animals. Like the bears, they’d enjoy a couple of trees, with branches large enough to lay down on to survey the people/herbivores below.

My idea for Sloth Bear Mountain was to model it on Mappin Terraces, which means the langurs would be separated from the Sloth bears; with the allusion they’re sharing an exhibit space. They would reside on the cliffs of the mountain peak above the bears and leopards on the terraces below. Terraces make for efficient use of space - which is essential in a city zoo.

I’d love to see how a terrace would work in the elephant paddocks. Would that mean that more than 3 enclosures worth of species may be featured?

 

[Zoofan15]

I’d love to see how a terrace would work in the elephant paddocks. Would that mean that more than 3 enclosures worth of species may be featured?

Absolutely. At a minimum, the middle terraces would be divided into three exhibits (two for bears; one for leopard); the upper terraces (mountain peak) would either accomodate langurs along the entire range or a combination of langurs and tahr; then the bottom terraces would accomodate up to three ungulate exhibits (the number would depend on the size of the species involved) or one larger ungulate exhibit.

Either way, by utilising the entire space currently occupied by the elephant complex, there’s endless possibilities here. The interior of the mountain would be dark - so the perfect place to house an aquarium to compliment the mammals displayed on the terraces.

 

[Jambo]

It was indicated in that atrocious masterplan the MZ plan to acquire Komodo dragon, which is great news but should come with a grain of salt. I’m not sure if that paddock would be optimal for viewing, which is why I believe they would be a good addition to the carnivore precinct in favour of devils for some more diversity. I’d love to see the orangutans expanded onto the adjacent island, which currently is just a resting place for bin chickens. Hence why ungulates and felids have been floated. Do you think there could be a fragment of the sloth bear enclosure in which only the langurs can reach, of not just a small offshoot exhibit in itself. I’d love to see al the things you mentioned eventuate

Yes, Melbourne initially planned to acquire Komodo's for the second stage of their Carnivores precinct, but that didn't work out. Possibly due to there not being numbers at the time; I'm not sure.

Now that a regional breeding program is taking off though, it would be the right time for Melbourne to acquire them. Easier viewing could be implemented for the Komodos; I'm just suggesting they could take up about half the paddock, but it would require a renovation to that specific area to make it suitable for them.

I've long long floated the idea of Orangutans expanded onto the island opposite. Although it's not entirely *large* in size, that's fine. These are primarily arboreal species of which won't need a whole lot of land space anyways. The ultimate for me would be a pathway stretching across the zoo to the Japanese Island. It's feasible; with the orangutan complex virtually directly opposite the Japanese Garden with only the Kids Play area in between. But that might be a good idea if that area was to be slightly revamped to allow more climbing opportunities for the kids to potentially tie in with the Orangutans crossing above?