Zoo/Aquarium Hot Takes

Fallax said:
That doesn't mean there shouldn't be routes to them though? If it is a public attraction then having a bus route of some kind should be a priority otherwise it's very difficult to get to places if you don't drive or have access to your own vehicle.
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Unless it's in city limits of a decently sized city, there generally isn't public transportation of any sort to things in the States. Locally we've lost quite a number of bus stops over the last several years simply because people don't find riding the bus worth the hassle, among other reasons. Even when public transit does stop by places, most people don't bother because it's way faster to just drive. Honestly I don't know how the local bus authority actually makes any money, I never see even a half full bus and usually the only people I see at the bus stops are homeless using it as shelter...
 
TinoPup said:
The entire purpose of these sister facilities, like SDZSP, is to be far out from cities so that they can have big herds, breeding centers for carnivores, etc. By their nature, they're places that public transport won't be traveling to.
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But the purpose of these facilities isn't to be completely isolate from people, if that's the case it wouldn't be open to the public at all. Just because america hate public transit doesn't mean it should completely exclude people who don't drive to visit.
 
TinoPup said:
The entire purpose of these sister facilities, like SDZSP, is to be far out from cities so that they can have big herds, breeding centers for carnivores, etc. By their nature, they're places that public transport won't be traveling to.
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I’d have thought that these locations would offer the most compelling case for public transport.

I do get the car / driving dominance thing as it’s the same in the U.K. but it leads to a lot of isolation for people with limited car access and of course pollution. If we were rethinking sensible ways to travel public transport could be more prevalent, reliable, cost effective and greener. That won’t happen while people assume far out means car only. It’s a much wider issue than getting to the zoo of course!
 
Just for anyone possibly curious about public transportation to the SDZSP if you’re coming from further north like LA: Amtrak or Metrolink go from LA Union Station to Oceanside. At Oceanside, take the Sprinter light rail to Escondido Transit center. Lastly, the 371 Flex is by the should drop you off close to the driveway of the Safari Park. Unfortunately, the 371 operates very limited Monday through Friday :oops:
 
I'm a bit confused on this public transportation debate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it reads as though a number of people here think it should be a zoo's responsibility to create a public transportation system to make it easier for people to visit them. For one, zoos clearly do not have the money to run such an operation. Second, I find it unlikely that a zoo would even have the authority to do this. You can't just start running a public transport network, there's a lot of politics and legal red tape that would stand in the way of this. Thirdly, while it's true not everyone has a car, unfortunately the US automotive industry has spent a lot of money undermining public transport schemes and making trains and buses unpopular. I think many here who are from cities that are well connected within their metropolitan area and those from overseas may not understand just how poor America's public transportation infrastructure is. Many major cities don't have a major public railway leading to them, many of them don't even have a direct bus route.

I remember in 2019, trying to find public transportation to get from Wichita to Omaha was impossible. I found some redeye buses that could take me to Kansas City, but that's as far as I could go. There were NO buses that ran between KC and Omaha despite there being a major highway directly between the two that takes less than 3 hours to drive. Even if there was a bus, I'd lose an entire day to the travel time. I tried looking at flights, but even then most direct route offered was Wichita to Dallas to Phoenix to Omaha which would have taken over 24 hours to complete. In the end, I just rented a car and drove the six hours. If this is the case for just trying to get between two fairly close major cities, why is it reasonable to think there would be a bus route specifically between the Henry Doorly Zoo and Lee Simmons Wildlife Safari Park?

~Thylo
 
Seems I may have misinterpreted, I think most would say having public transport links would be good but I understand the logistics aren't that simple.

Our public transport situation might not be as bad as it is in the US but its certainly worse than mainland Europe. There is a lot of major zoos in the UK that are almost impossible to get to with public transport (looking at you Cotswold) and as someone who doesn't drive it can sometimes be an absolute pain trying to plan trips out.
 
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Ironically, there is public transport between the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park, though not a straight route, it seems. Still, the option is there, even if it's 2 hours longer than a car.
 

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Fallax said:
That doesn't mean there shouldn't be routes to them though? If it is a public attraction then having a bus route of some kind should be a priority otherwise it's very difficult to get to places if you don't drive or have access to your own vehicle.
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What motive would there be to offer one? The number of people who would use it wouldn't remotely cover the cost to run it. Most towns in the USA don't have a transport network to other towns or the nearest city, and as @Thylo said, even getting between major cities that are near each other can be near impossible if you don't want to spend literal days on the route. It can be hard to get an uber to these places, even (uber and lyft are extremely popular in the USA), and especially getting one back.

aardvark250 said:
But the purpose of these facilities isn't to be completely isolate from people, if that's the case it wouldn't be open to the public at all. Just because america hate public transit doesn't mean it should completely exclude people who don't drive to visit.
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No, but their purpose isn't to be a major attraction, either. Most of these facilities don't even make enough from visitors to cover day to day operations, they rely on donors and their main facility to keep them running.

Over 80% of Americans drive at least several times a week. Only 6% never drive. Compare that to the UK, where I'm seeing the number that never drive at around 40%. People just aren't going to load up their family onto a bus to go to the zoo in the USA. Transport here mostly connects areas to hospitals and major places of work, like factories. Places people need to go.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I'm a bit confused on this public transportation debate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it reads as though a number of people here think it should be a zoo's responsibility to create a public transportation system to make it easier for people to visit them. For one, zoos clearly do not have the money to run such an operation. Second, I find it unlikely that a zoo would even have the authority to do this. You can't just start running a public transport network, there's a lot of politics and legal red tape that would stand in the way of this. Thirdly, while it's true not everyone has a car, unfortunately the US automotive industry has spent a lot of money undermining public transport schemes and making trains and buses unpopular. I think many here who are from cities that are well connected within their metropolitan area and those from overseas may not understand just how poor America's public transportation infrastructure is. Many major cities don't have a major public railway leading to them, many of them don't even have a direct bus route.

I remember in 2019, trying to find public transportation to get from Wichita to Omaha was impossible. I found some redeye buses that could take me to Kansas City, but that's as far as I could go. There were NO buses that ran between KC and Omaha despite there being a major highway directly between the two that takes less than 3 hours to drive. Even if there was a bus, I'd lose an entire day to the travel time. I tried looking at flights, but even then most direct route offered was Wichita to Dallas to Phoenix to Omaha which would have taken over 24 hours to complete. In the end, I just rented a car and drove the six hours. If this is the case for just trying to get between two fairly close major cities, why is it reasonable to think there would be a bus route specifically between the Henry Doorly Zoo and Lee Simmons Wildlife Safari Park?

~Thylo
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I was just responding to the point made that public transportation links are not valid for places that are a long way away or remote.

Making the case for correctly funded public transport in a world where 'it's easier by car' isn't easy in itself. The fact you think it is unreasonable to suggest effective bus routes based on there being rubbish bus routes elsewhere sums up the problem with public transport. We are used to settling for less and so we expect less.

I wouldn't suggest zoos fund or organise public transport. But that doesn't mean zoo goers can't have an opinion on it.
 
Lafone said:
I was just responding to the point made that public transportation links are not valid for places that are a long way away or remote.

Making the case for correctly funded public transport in a world where 'it's easier by car' isn't easy in itself. The fact you think it is unreasonable to suggest effective bus routes based on there being rubbish bus routes elsewhere sums up the problem with public transport. We are used to settling for less and so we expect less.

I wouldn't suggest zoos fund or organise public transport. But that doesn't mean zoo goers can't have an opinion on it.
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I don't think it's unreasonable to want there to be effective bus routes to zoos, I want there to be effective bus routes in general. When traveling abroad, it's extremely frustrating when there's no public transportation option to get to zoos or, like with Plzen, the only option has you arriving well past the time you'd want to be there. I'm speaking to the reality of the situation, though. More than that, I'm speaking to the opinion some appear to have where the zoo organization themselves should be responsible for hosting transport between their collections.

~Thylo
 
Fallax said:
Is the one about Lied Jungle a hot take? I've heard it quite a lot that Lied Jungle is past its prime and some of the exhibits aren't exactly great.
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Yeah, that one is probably less "hot" than the rest. Columbus is one of my top 3 zoos ;)
 
Fallax said:
Is the one about Lied Jungle a hot take? I've heard it quite a lot that Lied Jungle is past its prime and some of the exhibits aren't exactly great.
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The Lied Jungle's collection has gone down but its standard of exhibitry has gone up, since the worst of the exhibits have either been removed or renovated over the last several years. Just about the only left that I really think can be called bad is maybe the tapir exhibit.

Similar situation for the Desert Dome. The Bobcat exhibit sticks out as pretty bad there but otherwise most of the bad exhibits are either now no longer in use or being used for different (much more suitable) species.

@Gibbonsagainstgravity I'm not sure if you're aware that Orangutan Forest was completely overhauled a couple of years ago. Are you actually referring to Orangutan Forest as it stands today?
 
Fallax said:
Is the one about Lied Jungle a hot take? I've heard it quite a lot that Lied Jungle is past its prime and some of the exhibits aren't exactly great.
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I will say when Omaha is your local zoo and you go there often, the awe of the exhibits is kind of lost.
 
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