Zootierliste America

[Mr Gharial]

About how long does it take for updates sent to be added to Zootierliste? I obviously know it won't be instantaneous, but would like to know to ensure the updates I just sent are actually added. I sent two species lists already, and am planning to send more too.

Also- does Zootierliste have a way to "report" an incorrect holding? Currently Roger Williams Park Zoo is listed as having Connochaetes taurinus taurinus, when their wildebeest are actually C.t.albojubatus.

It used to take anywhere between a few days and a few weeks, but with the huge amount of new species lists coming in I assume it can take a little longer right now.

Small corrections can also be sent through the same email address. Maybe for now it might be better to have an email with a larger list of corrections.

 

[PossumRoach]

Ooh, yeah, at a glance I immediately see that Ueno has aoudad listed when their last individual passed away recently.

I did put it in the former section and backed up the death of the animal by putting the zoo’s announcement of the last animal’s death.

I try to add things that can be verified by an official source such as announcements, blog entries, and the such since I do usually focus on lost species.

 

[Eagle]

Zootierliste is a European website that keeps track of all the (vertebrate) species held in European zoos. Recently (as in: today) they expanded their range to worldwide.

ZTL already included a few non-European countries, most notably New Zealand and Singapore, but now also has America and Canada (and Australia, Mexico, etc). So I want to encourage you all to collect species lists for the zoos of North America.

Now, I'm not an official spokeperson of Zootierliste, but I have helped them with species lists before. So here's a quick guide of how you can help:

Send an email to mail@zootierliste.de, including the name and city of the zoo (Montreal Biodome in Montreal, Central Park Zoo in New York, etc), as well as the date of your visit. And of course, the species list for the zoo (preferably including Latin names as well). I'd suggest sending separate mails for separate zoos, to avoid confusion.

Just a species list is already helpful, but including additional information would be even better!
Here's some examples of additional information (and examples of the examples using my home zoo):
- Species amounts (Example: Burgers' Zoo currently has 1.1 Aardvarks and 0.0.50+ Redhead cichlids)
- Recent births (0.2 West Indian manatees were born in Burgers' Zoo in 2023) (unrecent births are also welcome of course)
- Separate group holdings (Burgers' Zoo has a breeding group of Blue-backed grassquits in Burgers' Bush and a male bachelor group in Burgers' Mangrove)
- Mixed species enclosures (The Black-tailed prairiedogs in Burgers' Desert are held with North American tree porcupines and Collared peccaries)
- Specific regions (The Javan bantengs are held in "Burgers' Rimba")
- Whether of not the species are signed or seen (0.0.1 Nile tilapia is held in Burgers' Bush (Seen, but not signed))
- Where the zoo has received the animals from (Burgers' Zoo received Baringo yellowfish from Wageninger University)
- In some cases, ZTL also likes to include names for certain large animals, but this is usually only in the case of animals like Elephants or Gorillas. I personally don't include them but you can if you want to

Here's how I usually format my emails to ZTL:


But again, any info is appreciated!

Hopefully we can all help expand Zootierliste to North American zoos in 2024! For now, happy zoo-ing!

Thank you for your really helpful post. That should hopefully prevent us from getting us more mistakes to fix.
I want to mention that data from ZIMS/Species360 is forbidden to be used as source on Zootierliste. Please consider using other sources like press releases, social media releases, Zoo guidebooks, personal visits (with exact date), scientific publications and others.
ZTL-Admin

 

[Mr Gharial]

Thank you for your really helpful post. That should hopefully prevent us from getting us more mistakes to fix.
I want to mention that data from ZIMS/Species360 is forbidden to be used as source on Zootierliste. Please consider using other sources like press releases, social media releases, Zoo guidebooks, personal visits (with exact date), scientific publications and others.
ZTL-Admin

You're welcome! I use ZTL a lot. Both as a fantasy zoo-er, and as the creator of the Dutch and Belgian Zoo Guides. I decided on making this post because the additional information is extremely valuable. Researching ZTL for what animals to include in my fantasy zoo become a lot easier if it mentions how many of a certain animal the zoo has.

For example, I wanna include the Fathead minnow in my fantasy zoo but I'm not sure if it's realistic because there's only three holders in Europe. But according to the additional information, Burgers' Zoo has 0,0,187 of them, and I'll be fine.
Or maybe I want to include Chinese pangolins and I'm in the same situation. But because of the additional information, I know both Leipzig and Prague received them from Taipei, so theoretically they could be imported to my fantasy zoo while still being realistic.

Other additional information can be useful to other users. Someone trying to research a Gorilla lineage, can use the listed names. Someone looking at mixed species exhibits or if animals are safe to keep free-roaming, can look at the "freilebend" or "vergesellschaftet mit" additions.

And additions such as:
Zwei-Gruppen-Haltung:
1. Haltung von 1,1 hinter den Kulissen
2. Haltung von 1,1 in der Tropenhalle

Can inform people that specific animals can only be held in pairs.

Hopefully this thread would inspire people to include information like this, making ZTL even more informative!

(Additionally, this info would also be more proof of the information being reliable)

 

[Bactrian Deer]

This is great news! I will sure try to add lists for a few zoos with my account

 

[biggest_dreamer]

Whew, did anyone else have an inordinate amount of trouble with the captchas when registering? I went through 6 or 7 failed attempts before I could apparently actually make one out.

 

[Animal]

Whew, did anyone else have an inordinate amount of trouble with the captchas when registering? I went through 6 or 7 failed attempts before I could apparently actually make one out.

So we really REALLY know you are not a robot. In all honesty: It is the only way to keep away bots who get better and better at such things.

 

[Sicarius]

I'm also seeing that a few specific animals, such as the Japanese fox and Japanese giant salamander, have gotten lists of every zoo (in Japan) that holds them. Essentially the opposite approach, but still very helpful.

I'm actually very, very far from done with these. In reality, maybe 50+ parks have them

 

[Mr Gharial]

I'm actually very, very far from done with these. In reality, maybe 50+ parks have them

Amazing! Japanese zoos have been a mystery in terms of collections, which is a shame because Japan has so many rarities! Including 50+ Japanese salamanders, apparently

 

[PossumRoach]

Whoever listed reticulated giraffe under Niabi Zoo (and other users who hadn’t seen it on this thread yet), here’s a heads up as brought up by @ThylacineAlive on the “ZooTierListe goes Worldwide” thread:

Just a quick PSA for the USA editors: please be mindful that, per the AZA TAG for giraffes, there are no known purebred Reticulated and only a few purebred Rothschild's Giraffes left in North America. The Reticulated population is managed by phenotype, but these are non-subspecies animals and should be uploaded to the non-subspecies page on ZTL, not the Reticulated.

~Thylo

 

[biggest_dreamer]

Earlier I stumbled upon a page for a zoo that had its holdings broken up by order (ie, Mammals: a, b, c; Birds: d, e, f; Reptiles: g, etc.) but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get back to that view. Anyone know what I'm talking about? lol

Edit: just found it, it was the Expert Search

 

[SusScrofa]

Its such wonderful news seeing zootierliste finally become a global resource for species listings! I guess zoochat species lists for North America will now become obsolete I keep life lists of mammals, birds and herps and have visited plenty of zoos so I will be happy to contribute. I already tested out the waters with adding holdings and the system is simple enough to use, will probably start to get back to it once I finish my current travels to some obscure southeastern facilities.

I have some questions about subspecies: While I keep tabs on subspecies when possible, I base it mostly on signage and, very rarely, on appearance and location (if USA-native animal). But since ZTL is striving for as much accuracy as possible, I'd like to get info on how to handle some species on the subspecific level and this can also help other North American users when adding holdings. So far these are questions I've thought of.

1. Grant's Zebra - it has been mentioned on zoochat that all plains zebras in North America are of mixed ancestry. I've seen many AZA and non-AZA sign theirs as Grant's and they all generally have the physical characteristics of that subspecies, but since they aren't considered 'pure' do us editors just add them to the generic list even if they were signed on the subspecies level or do we just go with signage and/or appearance? Already a few holders of Grant's have been added in NA while others have been added to the generic Plains listing.

2. Sloth Bear, Syrian Brown Bear, Himalayan Black Bear - I believe Philadelphia has their Sloths signed as Sri Lankan subspecies, but other zoos I've been to with the subspecies do not sign it, including recently a very obscure roadside in rural Georgia. Are they Indian or generic?

I assume we should consider all "Syrian" Brown Bears in NA are actually generics and not put them under that subspecies? Also I've seen Asiatic Black Bears at a roadside that were signed as lanigera subspecies, what to do with that?

3. Angolan Colobus Monkey - I have seen that a couple of holders in NA were added under the palliatus subspecies... I've been to the Bronx Zoo and they don't sign theirs on the subspecies level so I'm curious how this is known. I don't see anything subspecific mentioned on AZA website either. Can someone provide me a source just for my own personal knowledge? I have visited several AZA zoos with this species (Tampa, DAK, Greenville etc) so I would like to know where I should add them in the event they aren't yet added.

4. Common Eland - DAK and San Diego Safari list theirs as pattersonius subspecies but is this accurate? What about other elands, which I assume are generics?

5. Siberian (Amur) Tiger - Should editors consider Siberian Tigers in non-AZA pure or generic?

 

[dillotest0]

I was adding entries to ZTL for North America.
For Black-footed cat I have added Cincinnati Zoo, Utah's Hogle Zoo [which obtained one recently] and the Living Desert. For all three I have sources from no earlier than '22 confirming the presence of the animal in question.
But I was unsure whether to add the following zoos -
Birmingham Zoo of Alabama [listed on website with just a few lines of text, but no pictures from the ZC gallery beyond '10]
Greensboro Science Centre [Media from '21, but almost nothing beyond that]
San Diego Zoo [is it kept on show? Only sporadic coverage on the internet]
I have also added the following for Northern Resplendent Quetzal [given that the zoos are in Mexico]
ZooMAT
Xcaret Park
I was hoping if someone could confirm or deny whether either zoo still has the quetzal?
That being said Dallas World Aquarium still states on their website that they have Crested and Resplendent at their off-site breeding centre. Would it be fine to add Dallas as holding the species? Or not because it isn't a public facility?
Would the Grant's Caribou at Alaska Wildlife Conservation Centre count as barren-ground caribou?

 

[15399]

2. Sloth Bear, Syrian Brown Bear, Himalayan Black Bear - I believe Philadelphia has their Sloths signed as Sri Lankan subspecies, but other zoos I've been to with the subspecies do not sign it, including recently a very obscure roadside in rural Georgia. Are they Indian or generic?

All sloth bears in US zoos are non-subspecific.

3. Angolan Colobus Monkey - I have seen that a couple of holders in NA were added under the palliatus subspecies... I've been to the Bronx Zoo and they don't sign theirs on the subspecies level so I'm curious how this is known. I don't see anything subspecific mentioned on AZA website either. Can someone provide me a source just for my own personal knowledge? I have visited several AZA zoos with this species (Tampa, DAK, Greenville etc) so I would like to know where I should add them in the event they aren't yet added.

All Angolan colobus in US zoos should be Colobus angolensis palliatus.

5. Siberian (Amur) Tiger - Should editors consider Siberian Tigers in non-AZA pure or generic?

I think that depends on the specific zoo.

But I was unsure whether to add the following zoos -
Birmingham Zoo of Alabama [listed on website with just a few lines of text, but no pictures from the ZC gallery beyond '10]
Greensboro Science Centre [Media from '21, but almost nothing beyond that]
San Diego Zoo [is it kept on show? Only sporadic coverage on the internet]
I have also added the following for Northern Resplendent Quetzal [given that the zoos are in Mexico]
ZooMAT
Xcaret Park
I was hoping if someone could confirm or deny whether either zoo still has the quetzal?
That being said Dallas World Aquarium still states on their website that they have Crested and Resplendent at their off-site breeding centre. Would it be fine to add Dallas as holding the species? Or not because it isn't a public facility?
Would the Grant's Caribou at Alaska Wildlife Conservation Centre count as barren-ground caribou?

If you are unsure on something, I think the best course of action would be not to enter it/let someone more familiar with the zoo enter it.

 

[biggest_dreamer]

In situations where subspecies can't be easily or immediately ascertained, would it be preferable to:

a. Add the species as non-subspecific, perhaps temporarily, and have it updated later when/if subspecies status can be determined

or

b. Not add the animal at all until subspecies status (or lack or hybrid thereof) can be determined

Personally, I see more value in the former. I'd prefer looking at one of these lists and be able to tell that a zoo at least has the species, regardless of subspecies. I'd also worry that if a zoo winds up 99% listed minus one or two animals of unknown subspecies, they might get overlooked for longer than necessary under the assumption that the zoo is probably already fully listed.

But maybe I'm looking at this wrong. I want to make sure I'm going about this in the way that winds up being the most consistent, and requiring the least unwanted work for the ZTL staff.

On a similar note, it seems like there's going to be a lot of native domestic breeds that need to be added to the database. I've already run into some specific ones I'd suggest, but I imagine the move will ultimately be to just add them en masse from some other source.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I was adding entries to ZTL for North America.
For Black-footed cat I have added Cincinnati Zoo, Utah's Hogle Zoo [which obtained one recently] and the Living Desert. For all three I have sources from no earlier than '22 confirming the presence of the animal in question.
But I was unsure whether to add the following zoos -
Birmingham Zoo of Alabama [listed on website with just a few lines of text, but no pictures from the ZC gallery beyond '10]
Greensboro Science Centre [Media from '21, but almost nothing beyond that]
San Diego Zoo [is it kept on show? Only sporadic coverage on the internet]
I have also added the following for Northern Resplendent Quetzal [given that the zoos are in Mexico]
ZooMAT
Xcaret Park
I was hoping if someone could confirm or deny whether either zoo still has the quetzal?
That being said Dallas World Aquarium still states on their website that they have Crested and Resplendent at their off-site breeding centre. Would it be fine to add Dallas as holding the species? Or not because it isn't a public facility?
Would the Grant's Caribou at Alaska Wildlife Conservation Centre count as barren-ground caribou?

Well, remember you can always add species as former holdings if you cannot confirm continued presence - and if people know a species IS still present they can switch the entry over to "current" similarly you can add a species to current listings but include a note that it is offshow.

 

[dillotest0]

similarly you can add a species to current listings but include a note that it is offshow.

I think it would be a bit gratitious somehow in the case that the animals in question are not held on-site - The Smithsonian Zoo and its backstage breeding institute are more than an hour's drive away from each other; and of course we don't know where Dallas' breeding centre is [or whether they still have quetzal for that matter].

 

[SusScrofa]

All sloth bears in US zoos are non-subspecific.

All Angolan colobus in US zoos should be Colobus angolensis palliatus.

I think that depends on the specific zoo.

Do you have a source on the sloth bear and colobus monkeys? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to be able to have one for my own references.

Non-accredited places ranging from very good to terrible have Siberian Tigers signed. Its not out of the realm of possibility these are actually pure I guess, these places have plenty of obscure species. But I would want to know what other zoochatters think they should be added to. These are the non-AZA zoos I've been to with altaica signed:

AZ – Out Of Africa Wildlife Park
NC – Tiger World
SC – Bee City Zoo

I was adding entries to ZTL for North America.
For Black-footed cat I have added Cincinnati Zoo, Utah's Hogle Zoo [which obtained one recently] and the Living Desert. For all three I have sources from no earlier than '22 confirming the presence of the animal in question.
But I was unsure whether to add the following zoos -
Birmingham Zoo of Alabama [listed on website with just a few lines of text, but no pictures from the ZC gallery beyond '10]
Greensboro Science Centre [Media from '21, but almost nothing beyond that]
San Diego Zoo [is it kept on show? Only sporadic coverage on the internet]
I have also added the following for Northern Resplendent Quetzal [given that the zoos are in Mexico]
ZooMAT
Xcaret Park
I was hoping if someone could confirm or deny whether either zoo still has the quetzal?
That being said Dallas World Aquarium still states on their website that they have Crested and Resplendent at their off-site breeding centre. Would it be fine to add Dallas as holding the species? Or not because it isn't a public facility?
Would the Grant's Caribou at Alaska Wildlife Conservation Centre count as barren-ground caribou?

I can confirm Greensboro had Black-footed Cats as of August or September 2023. I'm visiting Birmingham so I can confirm if they are still present soon.

 

[Sicarius]

We might want to refrain from sending species requests to the Notice Board. It seems like there are already several dozens of species waiting to be put online. I have a list with hundreds of species myself... This might take a while

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I think it would be a bit gratitious somehow in the case that the animals in question are not held on-site - The Smithsonian Zoo and its backstage breeding institute are more than an hour's drive away from each other; and of course we don't know where Dallas' breeding centre is [or whether they still have quetzal for that matter].

My advice would still apply to the query you had about Black-footed Cat at Cincinnati!

As for Smithsonian's breeding centre, you could request that this be added to the database in its own right - there is precedent, with a similar breeding centre associated with Moscow Zoo being listed on ZTL already.