North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

I thought it was ten, but I may be wrong. Stella will be eight next year.
The AZA has recommended female elephants begin breeding as early as age 8 so that they will birth their first calves around the age of 10. We've been seeing this in the Asian population with several cows like Tupelo, Belle, and soon Achara as well.

Stella was born December 14th, 2016 and will therefore be turning 8 this year itself.
 
The AZA has recommended female elephants begin breeding as early as age 8 so that they will birth their first calves around the age of 10. We've been seeing this in the Asian population with several cows like Tupelo, Belle, and soon Achara as well.

Stella was born December 14th, 2016 and will therefore be turning 8 this year itself.

I think you said too Houston said they plan on breeding Joy with Tucker when she turns 8 years old next year. So that would be another Asian Elephant following that same pattern!
 
According to vets at Disney’s animal kingdom, Luna is in fact one of the pregnant cows there. Now either Kianga, Donna, or Vasha are also pregnant.

this is the article btw that confirmed Luna’s pregnancy. That being said, I really hope the other elephant pregnant is Kianga. She’s turning 20 years old this year and hasn’t had a calf yet, if she does it ensures her mothers genetics carry over to the next generation, and we would have a new breeding cow in the population

Disney Hopes Its 'Curious, Confident' Baby Elephant Will Inspire Visitors to Help the Species
 
I thought it was ten, but I may be wrong. Stella will be eight next year.
We've seen more and more examples of cows breeding at around 8 years old lately on the Asian front as others have mentioned, and (while I could be wrong) I don't think there'd be a difference in the reccomendation for Africans.

I imagine we'll see Stella become a breeding priority fairly quickly once she's old enough. With Luna being confirmed pregnant now it appears that DAK is focusing on their younger cows going forward. A strong choice imo considering that both the older cows have daughters already and are beginning to get up there in age a tad.
if Luna was bred naturally (as is my hope) then Stella could begin to be mixed in with whichever of the two younger bulls is proven. Or they could begin to try AI with her if that is the case with Luna.
 
We've seen more and more examples of cows breeding at around 8 years old lately on the Asian front as others have mentioned, and (while I could be wrong) I don't think there'd be a difference in the reccomendation for Africans.

I imagine we'll see Stella become a breeding priority fairly quickly once she's old enough. With Luna being confirmed pregnant now it appears that DAK is focusing on their younger cows going forward. A strong choice imo considering that both the older cows have daughters already and are beginning to get up there in age a tad.
if Luna was bred naturally (as is my hope) then Stella could begin to be mixed in with whichever of the two younger bulls is proven. Or they could begin to try AI with her if that is the case with Luna.

I think it’s still possible Donna or Vasha could be bred still. Frankly as it’s been rehashed many times before, we need every single breeding animal we can get to help grow the African Elephant population, and I did find this note interesting on why out of the 3 girls (Vasha, Donna and Kianga). Luna was with Nadirah when her calf was born, because Luna herself is pregnant. If the cow pregnant is Donna or Vasha, they would already know how to raise a calf. Vasha is turning 39 and Donna is turning 40 this year, and while they haven’t had calves in a while both if keepers thought they are capable of breeding still, I don’t think are totally out of the odds. Though I do think it’s likely Kianga because Disney has been trying to breed her for YEARS. I say that with capitalizations cause it’s true ;).

As for Stella, I’ve heard rumors that Disney will start breeding her in 2025. The recommendation for both when an Asian and African elephant female should start breeding is both 8 years of age. That being said though, I’m glad Disney is finally getting serious about breeding elephants again. Maybe they have always been, but I do know there was what felt like a frustrating period of the lack of breeding occurring there.
 
If the cow pregnant is Donna or Vasha, they would already know how to raise a calf. Vasha is turning 39 and Donna is turning 40 this year, and while they haven’t had calves in a while both if keepers thought they are capable of breeding still, I don’t think are totally out of the odds.
Same goes for Kianga experience wise. She's been in the herd and witnessed many calves born, whereas with Luna this would've only been her second (following Stella back in 2016).
 
If the cow pregnant is Donna or Vasha, they would already know how to raise a calf. Vasha is turning 39 and Donna is turning 40 this year, and while they haven’t had calves in a while both if keepers thought they are capable of breeding still, I don’t think are totally out of the odds.
It would be great for Donna and Vasha to have at least one more calf each in all honesty. Both are wildborn, and any calves with Mac would of course carry that value. But it isn't unheard of for females to stop being bred around age 40, so perhaps that is the case here. I hope it's not, but we can't be sure!

That being said though, I’m glad Disney is finally getting serious about breeding elephants again.
How is Disney's facility space-wise? From what Ive seen they have one main viewing yard and a behind the scenes yard (Going off of memory here lol) that they rotate between the males, Donna (plus daughters and sometimes Kianga) and Vasha (plus Kianga and sometimes some of Donna's girls). The stall in breeding may potentially have been to save space for future calves of the younger girls.
 
How is Disney's facility space-wise? From what Ive seen they have one main viewing yard and a behind the scenes yard (Going off of memory here lol) that they rotate between the males, Donna (plus daughters and sometimes Kianga) and Vasha (plus Kianga and sometimes some of Donna's girls). The stall in breeding may potentially have been to save space for future calves of the younger girls.

I believe DAK currently is the third largest complex size wise in NA with 3 yards (2 main yards and a private) spread over 7 acres and each one has its on pool. Which they rotate 3 socials groups that you mentioned. So everyone gets time outside. Fun fact even with all the space keepers have to make sure Donna and Vasha don’t cross paths just the sight of one another it’s instant drama.
 
I believe DAK currently is the third largest complex size wise in NA with 3 yards (2 main yards and a private) spread over 7 acres and each one has its on pool. Which they rotate 3 socials groups that you mentioned. So everyone gets time outside. Fun fact even with all the space keepers have to make sure Donna and Vasha don’t cross paths just the sight of one another it’s instant drama.
That's really interesting, have Donna and Vasha ever lived cohesively? I guess I just assumed they did. When Rafiki was alive, who did she live with?
 
That's really interesting, have Donna and Vasha ever lived cohesively? I guess I just assumed they did. When Rafiki was alive, who did she live with?

They use to all live together. According to the keepers Rafiki kept the peace as the matriarch and once she passed Donna and Vasha decided they weren’t interested in being friends and have been hostile to each other ever since.
 
They use to all live together. According to the keepers Rafiki kept the peace as the matriarch and once she passed Donna and Vasha decided they weren’t interested in being friends and have been hostile to each other ever since.
Disney has also stated that there's not currently a matriarch (as of a few years ago at least) and none of the girls have showed interest in stepping up, which I imagine contributes to the disharmony.
 
It‘s totally normal that adult females with more than one offspring develop a strong preference for their own kin and a strong dislike/ aggression against unrelated females. That will happen in other US zoos too once more females have multiple offspring and even grandkids. In Europe, almost all groups with multiple breeding females have been split in the last 15 years so that each zoo has only a single family matriline.
 
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It’s a combo of management and animals not getting along. Rasha and the unrelated cow Angel do not get along. However Bluebonnet and Angel get along fine, with Angel assuming the dominant position. So therefore, it’s most commonly Angel, Bluebonnet, and Brazos, and then Rasha, Belle, and Travis. However Rasha gets along fine with both daughters, and the sisters also get along fine with each other. During these times Angel is either house alone or with the Romeo.

However Ft Worth seems to have a very odd management style for their social groups, and they love splitting them. AFAIK they never housed Bowie in the same physical space as another animal once he was split from Bluebonnet. Same for Brazos and Travis, they have them constantly separate despite the fact that they should by all accounts, be running together basically nonstop at this point. Also the matriarchal group, it personally makes no sense to me why they retain Angel, it would make much more sense just to send her out to another facility and then house the matriarchal herd intact 24/7.
Its certianly interesting seeing how some zoos opt to hold non-compatible, non reproductive animals in breeding facilities. Fort Worth with Angel and Colonal, plus Columbus with Connie and Hank.
I have no doubt that the animals are perfectly happy; but there's no apparent reason to keep them at either facility when they are, respectfully, taking up space.
Especially given that both zoos would absoloutly benefit from the extra room as breeding facilities. Retaining a mature bull and an adult cow that have no breeding or social value is just an odd management choice to say the least.

I'm not overly sure where any of them would be sent to, but I can't really see how plausible it is for either Fort Worth or Columbus to retain them long term if they plan on growing their herds.
 
Its certianly interesting seeing how some zoos opt to hold non-compatible, non reproductive animals in breeding facilities. Fort Worth with Angel and Colonal, plus Columbus with Connie and Hank.
I have no doubt that the animals are perfectly happy; but there's no apparent reason to keep them at either facility when they are, respectfully, taking up space.
Especially given that both zoos would absoloutly benefit from the extra room as breeding facilities. Retaining a mature bull and an adult cow that have no breeding or social value is just an odd management choice to say the least.

I'm not overly sure where any of them would be sent to, but I can't really see how plausible it is for either Fort Worth or Columbus to retain them long term if they plan on growing their herds.
This comes down to a common problem with zoos, and that's the disconnect and/or conflict between what is best for the population and what is best for the individual animals. From a purely population management stand point, you're absolutely correct that non-reproductive animals don't "need" to be at these breeding facilities. However, that doesn't mean that these zoos, in conjunction with the SSP, haven't decided that staying at their current facilities is in the best interest of those individual animals. It's a relatively common thing for zoos to have to juggle, and is sometimes quite difficult (especially when dealing with a high profile animal), as oftentimes what is "best" from a population management perspective isn't what is considered "best" for the individual animals. Oftentimes, when this is the case, there isn't really a "correct" answer of which to prioritize.

Furthermore, it isn't like Columbus or Fort Worth are at full capacity either- so it isn't like them being there is harming the population, even if it isn't absolutely necessary. There'd be a much bigger problem is, say, Columbus wasn't attempting to breed their elephants because of housing non-breeding individuals, but we all know that isn't the case.
 
This comes down to a common problem with zoos, and that's the disconnect and/or conflict between what is best for the population and what is best for the individual animals. From a purely population management stand point, you're absolutely correct that non-reproductive animals don't "need" to be at these breeding facilities. However, that doesn't mean that these zoos, in conjunction with the SSP, haven't decided that staying at their current facilities is in the best interest of those individual animals. It's a relatively common thing for zoos to have to juggle, and is sometimes quite difficult (especially when dealing with a high profile animal), as oftentimes what is "best" from a population management perspective isn't what is considered "best" for the individual animals. Oftentimes, when this is the case, there isn't really a "correct" answer of which to prioritize.

Furthermore, it isn't like Columbus or Fort Worth are at full capacity either- so it isn't like them being there is harming the population, even if it isn't absolutely necessary. There'd be a much bigger problem is, say, Columbus wasn't attempting to breed their elephants because of housing non-breeding individuals, but we all know that isn't the case.
Especially given that there aren't facilities readily "available" to care for animals that don't quite fit at breeding facilities. There's technically TES, but I don't thinking sending every post reproductive, socially testy cow there is an automatic soloution (and nor do I think the SSP does either). As for the bulls, there's practically no facility that could take them long-term besides potentially Miami, and even that's a stretch imo.

Furthermore, it isn't like Columbus or Fort Worth are at full capacity either- so it isn't like them being there is harming the population, even if it isn't absolutely necessary. There'd be a much bigger problem is, say, Columbus wasn't attempting to breed their elephants because of housing non-breeding individuals, but we all know that isn't the case.
I don't think there's a problem right now nessecarily, but going forward I can see issues arising quickly.

Columbus is nearly full currently. Iirc, their barn and yard space can accomodate 8-10 individuals. Even each female having a single calf would put them at capacity. Columbus definitely does not have the space to spare.
There's also the matter of the splits themselves at Fort Worth. A matriarchal herd consistently having to be separated so that a completely unrelated female is able to socialize is not only a hassle but will only get harder to handle once Travis and Brazos are fully introduced, and more calves are born.

Its all-around a tricky situation, and I imagine SSP coordinators and zoos themselves are probably very torn on how to best handle it.
 
That's very true but when there are limited options and calves are needed asap, Callee may be required (at least for now).

He's only the known sire of five calves thus far, plus the Sedgewick pregnancies (which may not all be by him). He's not as overrepresented as you may think.
Combining Jackson and Mabu's genes at a breeding powerhouse such as San Diego, at this point, would be one of the worst decisions the SSP could make imo. Any calves produced with Mabu's daughters would be some of the least genetically valuable elephants in the region, and would be, frankly, a complete waste of the wildborn genes that the herd has.
Its a very solid bet that Callee is the father of most if not all of Sedgewick's calves, the timing of the pregnancies after his arrival is almost too perfect to deny (I would love to be wrong on this though). He's not even 25 yet and may very well have almost 10 calves on the ground. If he keeps breeding, his sons will be doomed to live out their days in bachelor holding like Mabu's.
Obviously the priority is to breed the safari park's females, but the population simply won't be sustainable if we let the same four sires breed every viable female.
 
I know you all would like a proven breeder for WAP. But what about Osh? Even if is inbred, his genetic is not representedin the SSP. He is alone now... He never had a real opportunity to breed. In Europe with the experience of Tooth or Yoga who began to be breeder quite late, think it's an opportunity. Moreover he gruw up in a great suitable social envronnement at Howletts.
 
I know you all would like a proven breeder for WAP. But what about Osh? Even if is inbred, his genetic is not representedin the SSP. He is alone now... He never had a real opportunity to breed. In Europe with the experience of Tooth or Yoga who began to be breeder quite late, think it's an opportunity. Moreover he gruw up in a great suitable social envronnement at Howletts.

Osh is a behavioral non breeder. What I was told by his keepers was that when he was put in with Donna he would never quite figure out what he was supposed to do.
And Oakland Zoo is not interested in breeding elephants, so I doubt they would train Osh for AI.
 
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