She has antibodies to that specific strain she was initially exposed too. But there are a multitude of strains, some of which she may not have been exposed to yet. I wouldn't deem her 'safe' just yet, despite her age.
Chester Zoo Elephant Riva Hi Way has died
- Thread starter Ryley
- Start date
Much of this record (that can't be put down to EEHV - which is a major problem that work is actively being done to counteract) is down to either old age/pre-existing conditions (Sheba was old and Thi had arthritis from her early years in a logging camp) or isolated, impossible-to-predict incidents (Sithami, Sundara, probably Riva). It's indicative of a run of bad luck (although one that - mostly - stalled between 2019 and now), not due to any flaws in management. (Although you just know certain people will be trying to pin it as such - they're worse than the tabloid press).
Separating Indali and Maya seems counterproductive and, with Maya's age, moving her poses risk (yes, she's in good condition thus far, but it still carries risk) - I also can't think of a collection that has the space to take both of them. With a purpose-built enclosure and indoor facility, it would seem the better option would be to find some female elephants to come to Chester.
Re: multiple matrilines, I should point out Jangoli had calves at Chester - basically, at one point, Chester's herd did consist of two matrilines and, if Tunga had been female, this likely would have continued.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
She's not nessecarily safe from another infection. There have been unfortunate cases of young animals surviving an initial case and then succumbing to it years later (Ajabu, a young African from Dallas for example). Especially when she's under such drastically changed social circumstances, I wouldn't rule her getting the virus again out of the question in the least, and I'm sure Chester is doing everything in their power to monitor her.
While of course only her keepers can make this call, I struggle to see a circumstance where Indali moving facilities is to her ultimate benefit.
Jonathan Petersson
Well-Known Member
I disagree with moving any elephants out of Chester at this time. Chester has THE worst EEHV death rate out of any facility in the world. I highly respect the keepers and staff that care for them but the program should have been put on pause quite a while ago. Look at what happened when they transferred Aung Bo to Dublin, Avani and Zinda both died of EEHV. This is not a strand that was already present as the herd was fine before the transfer and Cincinnati elephants have no issues so far (knock on wood). Keepers at both Dublin and Chester raised concerns about transferring him due to his exposure to EEHV and yet it went through and now we have lost two lives. The test trial for the vaccine is well under way here in the US and it will not be long if it has not already made it to Europe. I personally think Chester should sit and wait until it's elephants are vaccinated and less contagious before doing anything with their program in order to save the lives of young elephants at other zoos. Too many calves have been lost over the years to this deadly virus.
I don't post very often in these threads but I agree. I don't feel Chester should have been trying to breed from their herd for the last few years nor should they have transferred any of them.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Chester is going to need to bring in new individuals if they want to remain keeping elephants, which unfortunately still poses an EEHV risk. Indali and Maya need the structure that a dominant female provides and Indali needs support and guidance if she is to become a mother herself down the line (as I'm sure remains the ultimate goal). Chester could easily wait a few years before bringing in a new bull, but I'd be highly surprised if they elected to suspend their program when they are down to a singular cow remaining from their matriline. If they ultimately choose to retain Indali, breeding her will doubtlessly be something the zoo will want to achieve as soon as realistically possible. While the amount of EEHV deaths at the facility are horrible, Indali's genetic value and positves of her social wellbeing would likely outweigh the risks of continuing the program.
I shall repeat what I previously posted within a discussion on this subject elsewhere on the forum, which was deleted due to the fact the comment chain was off-topic and the moderation team strongly suspected it was started in poor faith:
Firstly, there were EEHV deaths at Chester before [Aung Bo] ever arrived there, and the previous Chester bull (Upali) also moved to Dublin.... so given the fact Upali sired the recently deceased Dublin animals *and* several of the deceased Chester animals, you could just as easily point the finger at him.
Secondly, and more importantly, Aung Bo had only just arrived at Dublin and (IIRC) hadn't been introduced to the herd when the EEHV deaths started.
In other words, there is no way to determine *when* exactly the strain which caused the deaths at Dublin and Chester entered the herd at the former collection - and if it came from a Chester bull, it is likelier to have come from the bull which actually mixed with the herd and sired calves, rather than the one which was still in quarantine when the first calf died at Dublin
It is also worth noting that there is no record of EEHV at Emmen Zoo, which is the birthplace and hence original location of Aung Bo.... whilst Zurich Zoo, the birthplace of Upali, *has* experienced several EEHV deaths over the years.Of course, the other important thing to note is that EEHV can remain latent indefinitely, is suspected to be present in most (if not all) captive elephants, and the precise mechanism by which the virus becomes active and causes illness and death is unclear.... so it is entirely possible that *neither* Upali nor Aung Bo introduced the virus to the elephant herds at the two zoological collections in question, and that the virus was already present.
It is very possible that Aung Bo may have indirectly activated the virus in the Dublin cows by his very presence on site.
Even though they didn't have physical contact, the cows would've known there was a 'new bull' around and this could've caused a stress build up amongst the older cows of whom may have carried strains that the younger cows didn't have enough antibodies for.
It's worth mentioning that elephants need exposure to the virus on a frequent basis. And although there are a variety of causes of stress, a new bull on site (after not having one for five years) would've certainly caused a reaction amongst the cows.
It's also very difficult, if not impossible to prove where the virus came from. Each elephant is known to carry a different strain, or at the very least, each matriline/herd, but unless they can find a way to identify each strain each elephant has, we'll likely never be able to ever point the blame at one specific individual.
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Please confirm if this accusation is directed at me - as you have not been man enough to say so directly.
If it is, I would ask the moderators to remove it, as it is untrue and defamatory.
I was merely pointing out that the list did not look good, and that some species do well in some collections and some do not. An ethical decision eventually has to be made, as to whether to continue.
It was stated with the anti-zoo lobby in mind and was not directed at you or any other user - I sincerely and wholeheartedly apologise if I have caused any offence.
If you wish, I will either edit it to make the intent clearer or simply ask the moderators to remove the offending statement entirely.
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Guys come on! Throwing blame on each other is childish, we're all adults on here so can we go back to behaving like adults please?
Whats recently happened at both Dublin and Chester is devastating for the whole zoo community but let's not forget the keepers who knew these animals a hell of a lot better than we ever would. We don't know for certain that Aung Bo was responsible for the Dublin deaths(coincidence I agree-his recent arrival followed by a sudden outbreak) but let's support these 2 zoos instead of vocalising assumptions on public forums
Whats recently happened at both Dublin and Chester is devastating for the whole zoo community but let's not forget the keepers who knew these animals a hell of a lot better than we ever would. We don't know for certain that Aung Bo was responsible for the Dublin deaths(coincidence I agree-his recent arrival followed by a sudden outbreak) but let's support these 2 zoos instead of vocalising assumptions on public forums
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the clarification.
As it was left as a reply to my post, I hope you will understand my confusion.
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Again I dont know anything about elephants, but as TLD clarified, if the issue with an animal at the receiving zoo started when the incoming animal was still in quarantine, then this would certainly imply that the condition was pre-existing.
But 'in quarantine' for an elephant means living in the same house as the new herd, just not with them. They could sense/smell his presence no doubt.
What people on here seem to be convinently forgetting is that EEHV is present in every elephant it's just some elephants are able to either recover from it or are able to have an immune system that is strong enough to fight it(with early detection and medication obviously). We don't know if the move was rushed but I would have thought that whatever bull from whatever location arrived at Dublin could have had the same outcome. Going back to Chester, of all the elephant deaths since 2009 these are the ones that have succumbed to EEHV
Raman (M) - 2006 - 2009
Jamilah (F) - 2011 - 2013
Nayan (M) - 2010 - 2013
Bala (F) - 2013 - 2015
Hari (M) - 2012 - 2015
Aayu (M) - 2017 - 2018
Nandita (F) - 2015 - 2018
Sheba(2011), Sithami(2018), Thai(2020?), Sundara(2024), Riva(2024) have all died from other health reasons
Ryley
Well-Known Member
Announced by Chester Zoo:
27 Aug 2024
It is with deep sadness that we share news of the sudden and unexpected loss of female Asian elephant, Riva.
As with all other members of the herd here, Riva received around-the-clock care and attention from our 15-strong team of dedicated elephant and veterinary experts.
As part of this continuous provision of care, anomalies were detected in her routine blood test on Wednesday 21 August 2024 which gave us cause for concern. It was imperative to investigate this quickly and thoroughly but, heartbreakingly, while undergoing a further routine diagnostic procedure, Riva died under general anaesthetic. Our teams did everything they could to try to revive her but, tragically, nothing could be done.
We’re now awaiting results from a series of tests which we hope will tell us more about the exact cause. We’re desperate to find the answers but it may take some time before we have full clarity on what happened due to the number of ongoing tests and the specialist nature of them.
27 Aug 2024
It is with deep sadness that we share news of the sudden and unexpected loss of female Asian elephant, Riva.
As with all other members of the herd here, Riva received around-the-clock care and attention from our 15-strong team of dedicated elephant and veterinary experts.
As part of this continuous provision of care, anomalies were detected in her routine blood test on Wednesday 21 August 2024 which gave us cause for concern. It was imperative to investigate this quickly and thoroughly but, heartbreakingly, while undergoing a further routine diagnostic procedure, Riva died under general anaesthetic. Our teams did everything they could to try to revive her but, tragically, nothing could be done.
We’re now awaiting results from a series of tests which we hope will tell us more about the exact cause. We’re desperate to find the answers but it may take some time before we have full clarity on what happened due to the number of ongoing tests and the specialist nature of them.
I wonder why they found it necessary to anaesthetise her? Must have had good reason obviously as it is always a drastic step to take and I always get rather nervous when I hear of an animal undergoing this.
Orca obsessed
Well-Known Member
Forgive me if I’m wrong but can they try AI with Indali? It takes a while to train them and she is quite young but an elephant pregnancy is roughly 2 years and blackpool zoo has an elephant who’s 10 and pregnant which means she conceived when she was 9-ish? Meaning that in another year it’s quite possible that Indali could conceive?
I know no more about the exact cirumstances than anyone else, but I would point out that Indali's intensive treatment for EEHV involved several procedures under general anaesthetic, including transfusions of blood plasma from Aung Bo to provide her with antibodies. So the elephant team and the vets have considerable experience of the procedure, of course that does not totally eliminate the risks involved. We don't know whether such a transfusion or some other medication was tried on Riva or whether anaesthesia was required to collect samples for diagnosis - but I think it is safe to assume that there was enough concern about Riva's health to justify the risk - which does not make the outcome any less painful for everyone involved.