The Future of Zoos Victoria 2024 (Speculation/Fantasy)

[Jambo]

@Zoofan15

Agree totally

@Jambo

Yeah really really great ideas man like Zoofan said, really shows what MZ means to you and you have a spark of really excellent 'whatif' concepts that if they went with your ideas and suggestions would be some really good moves. Finances aside (a huge thing to 'aside', but if current financial situo' wasnt a bit of a 'sore foot' really like your strategic ideas for the zoo if they had the means to do).

@Trua

Yeah see your point with financially. Really like some of the ideas floated though of course as sure you do too like Jambos just now. It's a tricky current ladscape currenly financially unfortunately hey.

@Jambo

Yeah wow the passage of time, didnt realise had been 7 years+ since Lion Gorge was completed and opened to visitors. When outlining major (either new or revamped) precincts at our two biggest city zoos in Aus', comparatively Taronga has had a lot more recently with Nura Diya Australia as a whole (actually will count ARC as another big precinct too), African Savannah and Tiger Trek in last 7 years (seven years in time frame of being completed, work on the latter obviously began 8+ years ago as we all know).

Definitely appears for Zoos Victoria zoos specifically, its a Werribee focus time period which it definitely deserves, but would be nice if currently same could be done for MZ.

Cheers! I feel like it is relatively easy to see a future for Melbourne (or any zoo) once you have visited a lot and become quite familiar with the zoo as a whole. As time goes on you start to notice a lot of the small things and what can/should be changed - and the imagination does its own thing after

It's intriguing though as it seems each zoo has it's own sort of 'era' where a lot of developments take place. This usually follows the development of a masterplan in most cases. Melbourne had a flurry of developments from the mid 2000's to the mid 2010's; Trail of the Elephants, Orangutan Sanctuary, Wild Sea, Baboon Lookout, Growing WIld, Lemur Island, Lion George and Snow Leopard Ridge.

Taronga similarly didn't have any precincts in the last twenty years until Taronga Trek in 2017, besides Wild Asia (in 2006) and Great Southern Oceans (in 2009). Another interesting point is both of those aligned with Melbourne's precincts at the same time - the first is fair enough (as both opened precincts in time with the elephant import) but no apparent reason why they both decided to create new habitats for their marine life in the exact same year!

 

[steveroberts]

@Jambo

Yeah true; only thing would debate you on is that Wild Asia and Great Southern Oceans were major developed new precincts of Taronga; in terms of Great Southern Oceans kind-of/sort-of a redevelopment of Macquarie Island precinct {1988} but a big one (much bigger in size and number of exhibits {pools} and species); Backyard to Bush was technically the first big development in that '000s Taronga era (but fair to say for many of us not a personal stand-out exciting area in the zoo lol, do like the Wombats but and their burrow tunnel, and the Quokkas & Alpacas & Herptiles; see why the idea of the precinct was decided upon); another redevelopment kind of but one that moved to different site at the zoo (i.e remaking Discovery Farm {1977} but on a bigger scale in another section of the zoo + a small representation of native wildlife too) to make room for the current Elephants exhibit and other portions of the rest of Wild Asia - now Rainforest Trail (a.w.a.k).

Yeah 100% know what you mean with for you personally with Melbourne Zoo, feel the same personally about Taronga (and Perth Zoo once upon a time; still means a lot personally: PZ; just no longer {reliably for confident contemporary and future suggesting analysis} familar with enough; will be 19 years come January since have last been able to visit there unfortunately).

 

[Zoofan15]

Looking at things from afar, funding's probably been an issue. Combine that with Covid and the after effects a lot of industries have been experiencing, it's indicative a lot of the previous plans that have been delayed will start to be pushed into motion once everything elevates back to normal.

There also hasn't been any outstanding reasons to make any significant changes. I know for a fact it's been the same for Taronga who now seem content with their zoo overall. The only potential changes there being a gorilla expansion. Likewise, Melbourne's next focus will certainly be on the elephants and deducing a suitable replacement for them. This should already be decided by management. I wouldn't think too harshly if they plan to just close the whole thing off for a few years or just throw a few surplus animals like Zebra into the enclosures in the mean time until they can afford a bigger project. This seems to be the direction they're tracking in, all things combined.

Especially with the Werribee masterplan projects (the mostly costly being the elephant complex of course), Zoos Victoria will surely be weighing up what needs to be done over what they’d like to be done.

At this point in time, Lion Gorge, Growing Wild and Wild Sea are three relatively modern, fully functional precincts. We’ve seen minor changes to the first two (the Komodo dragons will be a very exciting addition!) and so it’s easy to see this continuing in this vein - Binturong replacing coati; Dingo replacing African wild dog etc. Wild Sea is the only one I’m hesitant to call given the number of zoos who have phased out pinnipeds and the fact the age of their youngest seal will place them at a cross-roads to phase out around a decade from now.

The elephants are really the only gap that *needs* to be addressed per say. Temporary solutions have been made to filling gaps like the Malayan tapir (Lowland nyala) and presumably the same will be done for Collared peccary within the next 5-10 years (it would make a good Cape porcupine exhibit in my opinion).

 

[Trua]

Yeah true; only thing would debate you on is that Wild Asia and Great Southern Oceans were major developed new precincts of Taronga; in terms of Great Southern Oceans kind-of/sort-of a redevelopment of Macquarie Island precinct {1988} but a big one (much bigger in size and number of exhibits {pools} and species); Backyard to Bush was technically the first big development in that '000s Taronga era (but fair to say for many of us not a personal stand-out exciting area in the zoo lol, do like the Wombats but and their burrow tunnel, and the Quokkas & Alpacas & Herptiles; see why the idea of the precinct was decided upon); another redevelopment kind of but one that moved to different site at the zoo (i.e remaking Discovery Farm {1977} but on a bigger scale in another section of the zoo + a small representation of native wildlife too) to make room for the current Elephants exhibit and other portions of the rest of Wild Asia - now Rainforest Trail (a.w.a.k).

On Taronga, the construction of Wild Asia had been discussed for many years prior to it opening. With the elephants set to arrive it only provided justification for this precinct and is *technically* the first major precinct in Taronga's history. I remember there being a lot of optimism and excitement with this. A fair amount of species that were planned ended up being scrapped for a variety of reasons but come opening day nobody really paid thought to that. The elephants wouldn't arrive until over a year later, but the trail was quite popular despite their absence. It was a huge upgrade from the previous farm that was on that site.

Those three precincts you discuss were also apart of Taronga's then masterplan, which carried until the Chimp renovation in 2011. Melbourne however didn't have such and instead where doing things on a basis of what was needed. The elephants needed a new home, they got that. The gorillas needed more space and the orangutans could've done with an improvement too - so that was carried out. The same went for the seals, then the baboons and so on. Melbourne's always struck me as a zoo that does things out of need rather than desire which is perhaps not for the best

As a young adult I remember hearing about Gorilla Rainforest opening, Taronga always wanted to replicate this and I personally believe Wild Asia was their attempt, albeit with Asian species.

 

[Zoofan15]

On Taronga, the construction of Wild Asia had been discussed for many years prior to it opening. With the elephants set to arrive it only provided justification for this precinct and is *technically* the first major precinct in Taronga's history. I remember there being a lot of optimism and excitement with this. A fair amount of species that were planned ended up being scrapped for a variety of reasons but come opening day nobody really paid thought to that. The elephants wouldn't arrive until over a year later, but the trail was quite popular despite their absence. It was a huge upgrade from the previous farm that was on that site.

Those three precincts you discuss were also apart of Taronga's then masterplan, which carried until the Chimp renovation in 2011. Melbourne however didn't have such and instead where doing things on a basis of what was needed. The elephants needed a new home, they got that. The gorillas needed more space and the orangutans could've done with an improvement too - so that was carried out. The same went for the seals, then the baboons and so on. Melbourne's always struck me as a zoo that does things out of need rather than desire which is perhaps not for the best

As a young adult I remember hearing about Gorilla Rainforest opening, Taronga always wanted to replicate this and I personally believe Wild Asia was their attempt, albeit with Asian species.

Over three decades on and I still consider Gorilla Rainforest an exceptional precinct. I can only imagine the hype that surrounded its opening - off the back of Melbourne Zoo breeding the region’s first gorilla infant in 1984; and following that up with the births of Buzandi and Bambuti in 1991 and 1994 respectively. One thing I liked about the original set up of Gorilla Rainforest, was that it linked to the original grottos, allowing the holding of multiple groups. Arguably negated by the Werribee complex, I do miss the concept of this in Melbourne’s current state.

Aside from the Main Trail, which has made steady progress as you describe, Melbourne has otherwise had a precinct by precinct approach - Trail of the Elephants; Lion Gorge; Wild Sea; and Growing Wild. It’s generated a lot of hype, even if not to the level of Gorilla Rainforest, which architecturally was equally as impressive as the species that inhabited it.

Taronga’s Orangutan Rainforest (1994) and Gorilla Rainforest (1996) were both outstanding exhibits in their day, though both aged quickly. Taronga’s other highlight around this time would have been Serpentaria (1995).

 

[Jambo]

On Taronga, the construction of Wild Asia had been discussed for many years prior to it opening. With the elephants set to arrive it only provided justification for this precinct and is *technically* the first major precinct in Taronga's history. I remember there being a lot of optimism and excitement with this. A fair amount of species that were planned ended up being scrapped for a variety of reasons but come opening day nobody really paid thought to that. The elephants wouldn't arrive until over a year later, but the trail was quite popular despite their absence. It was a huge upgrade from the previous farm that was on that site.

Those three precincts you discuss were also apart of Taronga's then masterplan, which carried until the Chimp renovation in 2011. Melbourne however didn't have such and instead where doing things on a basis of what was needed. The elephants needed a new home, they got that. The gorillas needed more space and the orangutans could've done with an improvement too - so that was carried out. The same went for the seals, then the baboons and so on. Melbourne's always struck me as a zoo that does things out of need rather than desire which is perhaps not for the best

As a young adult I remember hearing about Gorilla Rainforest opening, Taronga always wanted to replicate this and I personally believe Wild Asia was their attempt, albeit with Asian species.

Thanks for this!

I do know one species that was scrapped by Taronga (Babirusa), Melbourne similarly planned to obtain them for their Asian trail but these plans were thrown out the window once the IRA I assume wasn't able to passed to allow them to be imported. I'm of the opinion they may have been exhibited in one half of the current Pygmy Hippo complex, which then held Malayan Tapir.

I've also thought the same re. Melbourne and their precincts. Even more recently, the whole Carnivores precinct was completed on a need to basis as the Lion habitat was nearing heritage listing and the old Big cat cages/bear habitat were in dire need of a more modern replacement. Even going back to Growing Wild, the departure of the baboons and penguins from that area left it rather bare and considering those in management at the time were very much into education, and a precinct dedicated this was always going to be built (and was something that would've gotten full government approval as such).

Despite Melbourne progressing with their precincts on a 'need' basis, they've refurbished the entire zoo rather nicely. Most of the zoo (and enclosures) are fairly new, besides the original Rainforest trail. The northern exhibits (currently housing Nyala and Peccary) could also be added into this conversation however I wouldn't consider those as a 'precinct' per se, more of a small corner at the top of the zoo! I had long assumed Australian Bush was next but thinking back on it now there isn't really much there that requires major redevelopment besides the Kangaroo exhibit which recently did get a refurbishment this year.

I would assume the current elephant complex will be next in areas for redevelopment. There isn't much need to redevelop the original Rainforest trail now, but I'd imagine there will be some consideration to this down the line.

 

[Tiger91]

Wonder if perhaps Melbourne Zoo might consider have some Sloths, Anteaters and Armadillos in couple of years (c.2027) when Xenarthra IRA completed; exciting and increasingly worldly popular animals with zoogoers (partiacuarly Sloths and Anteaters) that Steve Robinson mentioned on other thread are unlikely to be as costly importing when compared to large megafauna. Could imagine a zoo like Melbourne would be interested in the above when the IRA is finished (*stating this last point just as a potential example for medium term possibility for MZ during few years of probable need to use funds for maintenence purposes and smaller new exhibit in about 2 to 4 years time approx', complete personal conjecture though.

I would imaging sloths are there majour hit list item. They are very popular, dont require large enclosures. I. not 100% but arnt super hard to feed. So would be an ideal addition to the zoos.

 

[Zoofan15]

I would imaging sloths are there majour hit list item. They are very popular, dont require large enclosures. I. not 100% but arnt super hard to feed. So would be an ideal addition to the zoos.

That’s a reasonable assumption in my opinion. Sloths, being aboreal, would be the perfect addition to Melbourne Zoo’s Treetops (which is mostly comprised of South American species anyway).

Sloths live long lives, making them a good investment. Adelaide Zoo’s female Hoffmann's two-toed sloth died in 2017 aged 43 years, albeit reported to be a world record.

 

[Tiger91]

As a young adult I remember hearing about Gorilla Rainforest opening, Taronga always wanted to replicate this and I personally believe Wild Asia was their attempt, albeit with Asian species.

I would love to see taronga replicate Melbournes gorilla forrest for there current gorillas and add in pygmy hippo enclosures that can hold colobus. It would be such a good use of there space, especially since gorillas would and could make use of there steep terrain.

 

[Tiger91]

That’s a reasonable assumption in my opinion. Sloths, being aboreal, would be the perfect addition to Melbourne Zoo’s Treetops (which is mostly comprised of South American species anyway).

Sloths live long lives, making them a good investment. Adelaide Zoo’s female Hoffmann's two-toed sloth died in 2017 aged 43 years, albeit reported to be a world record.

There immensely popular with guests, which is something Melbourne very heavily ties into when making species decisions. I would say anteaters are another species they will want. If they are planning on Brazilian tapir, anteaters and sloths round out South American sections nicely with the species we already have. I like jumbo's idea of using half the elephant complex for tapir, especially since you can mix capybara with tapir as well. Another popular species.

 

[Trua]

I would love to see taronga replicate Melbournes gorilla forrest for there current gorillas and add in pygmy hippo enclosures that can hold colobus. It would be such a good use of there space, especially since gorillas would and could make use of there steep terrain.

I'm lead to believe this *may* be the actual plan if the Taronga precinct is still going ahead. Take this with a pinch of salt though as it is only word off mouth.

Not sure if the terrain above the gorillas would work well for a Pygmy Hippo complex though. Maybe they complete the gorilla complex first above and then renovate the Lemur habitat too and use the current gorilla floor space for the Pygmy Hippos. Just food for thought.

 

[Tiger91]

I'm lead to believe this *may* be the actual plan if the Taronga precinct is still going ahead. Take this with a pinch of salt though as it is only word off mouth.

Not sure if the terrain above the gorillas would work well for a Pygmy Hippo complex though. Maybe they complete the gorilla complex first above; renovating the Lemur habitat too and then use the current gorilla floor space for the Pygmy Hippos. Just food for thought.

That would be a more optimal use of the space, the gorillas were very ill placed to begin with. They are on one of the larger and flatter areas of the zoo. But they are a species that is somewhat arboreal and would greatly make use of the steeper terrain that Taronga has typical used as an excuse of being to difficult. Especially given the current gorilla exhibit could be used to create a mixed hippo colobus enclosures.

The gorilla exhibit at Melbourne of fantastic, and has held up very well. It is something they should strive for.

 

[Trua]

That would be a more optimal use of the space, the gorillas were very ill placed to begin with. They are on one of the larger and flatter areas of the zoo. But they are a species that is somewhat arboreal and would greatly make use of the steeper terrain that Taronga has typical used as an excuse of being to difficult. Especially given the current gorilla exhibit could be used to create a mixed hippo colobus enclosures.

The gorilla exhibit at Melbourne of fantastic, and has held up very well. It is something they should strive for.

Taronga do have the space to create two sizeable enclosures above the current complex. I've been a critic of this area of the zoo for a while now! Yes it is one of the most steeper parts of the zoo terrain rise but it has lacked animals for as long as I can remember. A waste I say when there are species like Snow Leopard and Gorillas that could make use of such space quite efficiently. Not to mention the enclosures which would be very aesthetically pleasing if they can be pulled off right.

 

[Jambo]

I'm lead to believe this *may* be the actual plan if the Taronga precinct is still going ahead. Take this with a pinch of salt though as it is only word off mouth.

Not sure if the terrain above the gorillas would work well for a Pygmy Hippo complex though. Maybe they complete the gorilla complex first above and then renovate the Lemur habitat too and use the current gorilla floor space for the Pygmy Hippos. Just food for thought.

The initial plans for this complex didn't mention Pygmy Hippos but it is worth noting that these plans were likely formulated almost a decade ago now and as time changes, standards change. A new Pygmy Hippo complex is absolutely needed. If not now, then very soon.

I do like your idea though regarding the gorillas receiving a whole new space. This would allow them to be kept in their current enclosure until that occurs; I'd often pondered where they would be kept in the mean time assuming a new complex would replace their current one.

 

[steveroberts]

@Tiger91

Jumbo lol you mean *Jambo

 

[Trua]

The initial plans for this complex didn't mention Pygmy Hippos but it is worth noting that these plans were likely formulated almost a decade ago now and as time changes, standards change. A new Pygmy Hippo complex is absolutely needed. If not now, then very soon.

I do like your idea though regarding the gorillas receiving a whole new space. This would allow them to be kept in their current enclosure until that occurs; I'd often pondered where they would be kept in the mean time assuming a new complex would replace their current one.

Yup it was just Gorillas, Okapi and Mandrill from what I recall. The Pygmy Hippos and Bongo were in their relatively new enclosures back then. With Okapi and Mandrill ruled out, it's minimised the need to build this complex. Taronga's gorilla troop aren't also breeding like they once were so once the males leave they'll have the space, even if the exhibit isn't ageing the best.

 

[Trua]

Also in the circumstance the gorillas would need to be transferred out of their current enclosure in that hypothetical scenario maybe the enclosed area of the chimp complex could be used. But then again, I'm not sure of the back of house set up there and how well both species would react to having the other nearby

 

[Zoofan15]

Also in the circumstance the gorillas would need to be transferred out of their current enclosure in that hypothetical scenario maybe the enclosed area of the chimp complex could be used. But then again, I'm not sure of the back of house set up there and how well both species would react to having the other nearby

Housing chimpanzees and gorillas side by side definitely wouldn’t be an option. Both parties (especially the gorillas would find it highly stressful) and the displays (especially from the male chimpanzees would be constant.

I really hope the gorillas have a future at Taronga, but one of many options could be 2-3 year stay at Werribee or Melbourne while their exhibit is revamped, rotating access to the outdoor exhibit with their troops.

 

[Jambo]

Yup it was just Gorillas, Okapi and Mandrill from what I recall. The Pygmy Hippos and Bongo were in their relatively new enclosures back then. With Okapi and Mandrill ruled out, it's minimised the need to build this complex. Taronga's gorilla troop aren't also breeding like they once were so once the males leave they'll have the space, even if the exhibit isn't ageing the best.

Taronga's troop is cohesive in the mean time but in a few years it's likely the boys will have to move off. If Taronga isn't making any effort to develop a new habitat for them. I don't see any stand out options regionally, maybe Orana. But hopefully we'll have more clarity on this whole project once the Sky Safari is completed next year.

Also in the circumstance the gorillas would need to be transferred out of their current enclosure in that hypothetical scenario maybe the enclosed area of the chimp complex could be used. But then again, I'm not sure of the back of house set up there and how well both species would react to having the other nearby

I don't imagine they would too well - it would be highly stressful for both species so I'd rule that out as an option. There's no real other option rather than build a new enclosure in the space above first. I guess another option (yet unlikely) could be to transfer the whole troop to Orana temporarily. The males would then remain behind with the rest of the troop heading back up to Sydney after a few years.

 

[Jambo]

I really hope the gorillas have a future at Taronga, but one of many options could be 2-3 year stay at Werribee or Melbourne while their exhibit is revamped, rotating access to the outdoor exhibit with their troops.

Werribee maybe, Melbourne's night rooms aren't that extensive to hold that many gorillas especially for the periods they would require in that scenario.

Still I do wonder how Werribee's males would react in that sense. They would know and remember Johari quite well; having been raised together!