Yes, the bulls can potentially coexist in the absence of females; but it’s primarily done to limit breeding. Nyala bred like rabbits! Wellington’s bull lives seperate (in the old Cheetah exhibit).
The Future of Zoos Victoria 2024 (Speculation/Fantasy)
- Thread starter Zoofan15
- Start date
Yes, the bulls can potentially coexist in the absence of females; but it’s primarily done to limit breeding. Nyala bred like rabbits! Wellington’s bull lives seperate (in the old Cheetah exhibit).
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
I believe Melbourne should go the route of doing more tight knit geographical zones. Most of the current precincts are loosely based of something
My Masterplan
Part 1
Gorilla Rainforest - Congo Rainforest
Retain Ring Tailed lemurs, however as the exhibit is enclosed with netting maybe add a species of bird or reptile such as a small African species of tortoise.
Black and white ruffed lemurs feel a bit lost in the exhibit, they could either retain them or import a breeding pair or troop. They do have the option of moving the colobus monkey in there, however I don't think this is the right exhibit or them.
Gorillas will remain unchanged, with maybe the import of 1 - 3 females. Despite only 3 gorillas currently it is amazing how well they utilise the hole exhibit, it almost deceptive, as if they are more gorillas.
Extend the Pygmy Hippo exhibit, so it allows for a breeding pair and possibly the ability to retain offspring, this could be somewhat pointless though . Mandrill import seems unlikely so add colobus to the exhibit. What I envisage is a small area where the mandril exhibit is where the hippos don't have access to. Then aboreal pathways that lead to the hippo exhibits. Species of duck could also be added.
Congo rainforest species list
Ring tailed lemur
White and black ruffed lemur
Pygmy Hippo
Western lowland gorilla
Black and White colobus monkey.
Tree top apes and monkeys - The amazon
My plan for this area would for it to be completely demolished and turned into a South American boardwalk for rainforest walk, similar to what Adelaide Zoo has planned. It could have multiple layers that increase and decrease in elevation. Inside the exhibit could house the Bolivian Squirrel Monkeys and cotton top tamarins along with emperor tamarins and spider monkeys. however the emperor tamarins coluld be house in a small enclosure section. all these animal already reside at the zoo. On the ground level could be Brazilian Tapir along with capybara, seeing as the region is interested in this species as Tapir. Capybaras are always very popular zoo animals. The possible species of caiman or reptile tortoise or something. If it was to be enclosed species or birds. If possible sloths and giant anteaters also could reside here
The amazon - Species list
Capybara
Bairds Tapir
Cotton Top Tamarin
Emperor Tamarin
Tortoise
Spider Monkey
Maybe
Caiman, Giant Anteater and Sloth
Part 2 coming this evening - Solving the looming Giant elephant sized whole
This is all speculation and probably won't happen however it is could to think what could happen in the future
My Masterplan
Part 1
Gorilla Rainforest - Congo Rainforest
Retain Ring Tailed lemurs, however as the exhibit is enclosed with netting maybe add a species of bird or reptile such as a small African species of tortoise.
Black and white ruffed lemurs feel a bit lost in the exhibit, they could either retain them or import a breeding pair or troop. They do have the option of moving the colobus monkey in there, however I don't think this is the right exhibit or them.
Gorillas will remain unchanged, with maybe the import of 1 - 3 females. Despite only 3 gorillas currently it is amazing how well they utilise the hole exhibit, it almost deceptive, as if they are more gorillas.
Extend the Pygmy Hippo exhibit, so it allows for a breeding pair and possibly the ability to retain offspring, this could be somewhat pointless though . Mandrill import seems unlikely so add colobus to the exhibit. What I envisage is a small area where the mandril exhibit is where the hippos don't have access to. Then aboreal pathways that lead to the hippo exhibits. Species of duck could also be added.
Congo rainforest species list
Ring tailed lemur
White and black ruffed lemur
Pygmy Hippo
Western lowland gorilla
Black and White colobus monkey.
Tree top apes and monkeys - The amazon
My plan for this area would for it to be completely demolished and turned into a South American boardwalk for rainforest walk, similar to what Adelaide Zoo has planned. It could have multiple layers that increase and decrease in elevation. Inside the exhibit could house the Bolivian Squirrel Monkeys and cotton top tamarins along with emperor tamarins and spider monkeys. however the emperor tamarins coluld be house in a small enclosure section. all these animal already reside at the zoo. On the ground level could be Brazilian Tapir along with capybara, seeing as the region is interested in this species as Tapir. Capybaras are always very popular zoo animals. The possible species of caiman or reptile tortoise or something. If it was to be enclosed species or birds. If possible sloths and giant anteaters also could reside here
The amazon - Species list
Capybara
Bairds Tapir
Cotton Top Tamarin
Emperor Tamarin
Tortoise
Spider Monkey
Maybe
Caiman, Giant Anteater and Sloth
Part 2 coming this evening - Solving the looming Giant elephant sized whole
This is all speculation and probably won't happen however it is could to think what could happen in the future
The Sleepy Hippo
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where an enclosure could be put in, or repurposed, but I would LOVE for Melbourne Zoo to compliment the Lemur exhibit with a Fossa exhibit. Was possibly my favourite animal I saw at Singapore Zoo.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
Fossa would compliment the lemurs very well. Can they be imported if so from where. They could possibly do a small renovation to the other lemur exhibit.
Otherwise there is no much space
Otherwise there is no much space
Fossa are a fascinating species. The Black and white ruffed lemur exhibit would be the best exhibit in my opinion (with the ruffed lemurs moving in with the Ring-tailed) as they’re a highly arboreal species and would be visible at the visitor viewing level.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
The Sleepy Hippo
Well-Known Member
I don't know if they can be imported or if they require an IRA, but they are at Singapore, and several zoos in Europe also house them, so could be possible.
Neither Australia or New Zealand have Fossa on their approved importation lists.
I’m not aware of a specific IRA needed to import them, but they’re not currently on the Live Import List for Australia (or New Zealand), so would need to be added to that.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
Part 2 - Forest of Wonders ( TOTE )
Perhaps the most important precinct for Melbourne Zoo, as it use the house there most popular residents, the family of Asian Elephants. However as they are moving to Werribee Open Range Zoo they is going to be a big whole left behind them
Forest of wonders, sounds like something a little kids would come up with, the precinct will be specialising in South and East Asian animals.
Retain the Asian Small clawed otters, possibly at some colourful plants to add some colour to the rocky exhibit. Utilise the Sumatran Tiger exhibit as a breeding area for the species as it has large back of house area. They could also possibly use the other Sumatran Tiger exhibit to hold the breeding male.
Elephants Exhibits
Melbourne Zoo has 3 elephants paddock
The first exhibit usually houses bull elephants or the fence is open to the 2nd exhibit for the female along with there offspring. This exhibit has a the larges elephant pool in the zoo
The 2nd exhibit is the larges with high sand dunes for the elephants to play on
The 3rd exhibit is the 2nd largest containing a barn and generally on my visits a bull elephants.
There are also 2 barns one in the 3rd paddock, and large elephant barn the connects to the 2nd.
There are 3 pathways that Melbourne could elect to take
1st - Make minimal changes to all the exhibits and utilise species that can easily be imported or relocated from other zoos in the area. This is the most disappointing however will be better on the finances
2nd - This seems the most logical and likely, renovate all exhibits for the species they choose
3rd - A complete overall of the area, making it purpose built for the animals that are chosen
There a number of species that could utilise the exhibits
If there were to be a compete overall of the area I could see animals like the Sun Bear, Binturong, White cheeked gibbon, Malayan Tapir ( if region was to import them, otherwise Bairds tapir could be subsititied ). Orangutan and Siamang to create an amazing asian area.
The 3rd Elephant enclosure could be used as an extension of the Orangutan and Siamang exhibit with an aboreal platforms similar to Aukland zoo, they could also extend the exhibit to the islands in the lake, that was recently cleared out.
The 2nd exhibit could be used to house either a species of bear, antelope or Rhino, however given that Melbourne just phased out elephants due to space I think it would be a bit ironic to put rhino in the exhibit.
Then a Tapir species could be housed in the 1st enclosure, just becuase they have had problems with there eyes doesn't mean we should not be able to house them again, it is like with bongo the zoo had a accident and then said they would not hold them again, The first exhibit would be fully planted out similar like a mini rainforest making sure that there is shade for the tapirs eyes. The pool would remain, binturong could also be incorporatied into the enclosure, as when I visited Malaysia and Indonesia they were often housed together creating a very interesting concept.
Species in the South East Asian Precinct could include
Asian Small clawed otter
Sumatran Tiger
Malayan Tapir
Binturong
Siamang
Orangutan
White cheeked gibbon
Possibly however unlikely
Sun bear, species of deer or antelope such as Javan Deer, fallow or Blackbuck
Whilst this is unlikely imagine how amazing it would be for these animals to reside in a almost mega precinct.
Sadly it seems more likely that the space might be used for a children's playground, or education centre, heck even a bamboo maze which sure is a shame. I have great respect to zoos such as Adelaide and Zoos SA in generally for actually releasing there masterplan.
Perhaps the most important precinct for Melbourne Zoo, as it use the house there most popular residents, the family of Asian Elephants. However as they are moving to Werribee Open Range Zoo they is going to be a big whole left behind them
Forest of wonders, sounds like something a little kids would come up with, the precinct will be specialising in South and East Asian animals.
Retain the Asian Small clawed otters, possibly at some colourful plants to add some colour to the rocky exhibit. Utilise the Sumatran Tiger exhibit as a breeding area for the species as it has large back of house area. They could also possibly use the other Sumatran Tiger exhibit to hold the breeding male.
Elephants Exhibits
Melbourne Zoo has 3 elephants paddock
The first exhibit usually houses bull elephants or the fence is open to the 2nd exhibit for the female along with there offspring. This exhibit has a the larges elephant pool in the zoo
The 2nd exhibit is the larges with high sand dunes for the elephants to play on
The 3rd exhibit is the 2nd largest containing a barn and generally on my visits a bull elephants.
There are also 2 barns one in the 3rd paddock, and large elephant barn the connects to the 2nd.
There are 3 pathways that Melbourne could elect to take
1st - Make minimal changes to all the exhibits and utilise species that can easily be imported or relocated from other zoos in the area. This is the most disappointing however will be better on the finances
2nd - This seems the most logical and likely, renovate all exhibits for the species they choose
3rd - A complete overall of the area, making it purpose built for the animals that are chosen
There a number of species that could utilise the exhibits
If there were to be a compete overall of the area I could see animals like the Sun Bear, Binturong, White cheeked gibbon, Malayan Tapir ( if region was to import them, otherwise Bairds tapir could be subsititied ). Orangutan and Siamang to create an amazing asian area.
The 3rd Elephant enclosure could be used as an extension of the Orangutan and Siamang exhibit with an aboreal platforms similar to Aukland zoo, they could also extend the exhibit to the islands in the lake, that was recently cleared out.
The 2nd exhibit could be used to house either a species of bear, antelope or Rhino, however given that Melbourne just phased out elephants due to space I think it would be a bit ironic to put rhino in the exhibit.
Then a Tapir species could be housed in the 1st enclosure, just becuase they have had problems with there eyes doesn't mean we should not be able to house them again, it is like with bongo the zoo had a accident and then said they would not hold them again, The first exhibit would be fully planted out similar like a mini rainforest making sure that there is shade for the tapirs eyes. The pool would remain, binturong could also be incorporatied into the enclosure, as when I visited Malaysia and Indonesia they were often housed together creating a very interesting concept.
Species in the South East Asian Precinct could include
Asian Small clawed otter
Sumatran Tiger
Malayan Tapir
Binturong
Siamang
Orangutan
White cheeked gibbon
Possibly however unlikely
Sun bear, species of deer or antelope such as Javan Deer, fallow or Blackbuck
Whilst this is unlikely imagine how amazing it would be for these animals to reside in a almost mega precinct.
Sadly it seems more likely that the space might be used for a children's playground, or education centre, heck even a bamboo maze which sure is a shame. I have great respect to zoos such as Adelaide and Zoos SA in generally for actually releasing there masterplan.
Many fantastic ideas!
I’ll be interested to see the route the region takes with regards to sun bears. The wave of female births in Europe gives me hope we could potentially receive surplus from there a decade or so from now; though it doesn’t appear there’s a viable route for sourcing males at this stage due to the TB situation in SE Asian sanctuaries etc.
I still remain of the opinion sloth bears would be a more sustainable alternative long term, as much as I like sun bears.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
Sloth bears are a fascinating species of bear and one of the most unique being able to use the ground a trees effectively this could create an interesting exhibit with the bears using not just he ground but also trees and climbing.
Sloth bears were the species I saw as a child at London Zoo in the Mappin Terraces complex. They’d be a great species to acquire for so many reasons and there would surely be enthusiasm from the public to see them. Big cats, great apes and bears no go out of fashion in that regard.
Sloth bears appear to breed at least sustainably across North American and European collections. Sun bears aren’t necessarily hard to breed - Bakti and Chomel at Wellington produced several litters (and then she bred with her new mate after Bakti died); however the backgrounds of many of our bears in Australasia has impaired their social skills.
Yeah thats the thing with next generation Sun Bears here hey, the rescued or hand-raised individuals having the same social skills as parent-raised individuals that can pass those skills on to their cub(s). (Suppose can add this here being a speculation and ideas thread but the word fantasy is here too, one off though only: in a daydream not long ago about 'what ifs' with Australasian zoos, was wondering if a rescued male Sun Bear had managed to mate with a parent-raised female (although understand would be tough due to male's 'odd' social skills imagine) therefore any cubs would be raised solely by the mother who imparts the neccesary Sun Bear skills for the cubs' life/lives).
That's fantastic you saw Sloth Bears at London Zoo back in the day, had no idea there was still at least Sloth Bears in the Mappin Terraces in the '90s, thought all of them had been 'evicted' in the '80s, good to know wasn't fully the case. Yeah totally Sloth Bears are such an interesting and cool to see species of bears too and definitely along with Sun Bears the best candidates for Australasian zoos {possibly along with Indochinese sbp Asian Black Bears or Syrian sbp Brown Bears based on warmer climate living, would personally love to see Spectacled Bears too, but could understand if some might say am 'complicating' matters trying to mention them too when ussurid future in region is at point lucky to have one or two species/sbps of bears in future; with obvious exception of Giant Pandas (Adelaide) and Polar Bears (Gold Coast)}
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If a mother raised sun bear produced cubs with a hand-raised or socially impaired male, then the cubs would indeed be socially normal if the mother raised them. An example is Sasa who was born 2006 at Wellington Zoo to Sean and Chomel. Chomel was a mother raised bear and an excellent mother to her cubs.
You’re correct that Mappin Terraces closed in 1985 and all the bears moved out. In 1997 it was refurbished for Sri Lankan sloth bears and other species like langurs. Mappin Terraces then housed bears for a decade until 2007, when they moved to Whipsnade. Two sloth bear cubs were successfully bred in 1998 and 2001.
@Zoofan15 Oh yeah thats right Sasa is daughter of Sean with Chomel not Bakti with Chomel forgot (remember Sean at Perth he was a lovely fella). Thats a fantastic outcome with the breeding union of a mother raised female and rescued male, thanks for reminding me (actually essentially teaching me about).
Oh right right that makes sense with Mappin Terraces timeline then, thats fantastic they refurbished and brought Sloth Bears (back) for a decade and not only that but had cubs born too, really really cool. Dang just missed them by a couple of years (when went to LZ in December 2009 the Mappin Terraces had Red-necked Wallabies and Emus which as much as love them, given (theirs and my own) place of origin in the world was a very familar site from many times in the past in Aus' and not one of the 'wow' highlights of the visit to LZ).
Oh right right that makes sense with Mappin Terraces timeline then, thats fantastic they refurbished and brought Sloth Bears (back) for a decade and not only that but had cubs born too, really really cool. Dang just missed them by a couple of years (when went to LZ in December 2009 the Mappin Terraces had Red-necked Wallabies and Emus which as much as love them, given (theirs and my own) place of origin in the world was a very familar site from many times in the past in Aus' and not one of the 'wow' highlights of the visit to LZ).
Yes, Bakti (1989-2001) and Chomel (1988-2009) were Wellington Zoo’s original breeding pair and were imported from San Diego Zoo in 1992. Chomel produced five litters with Bakti between 1996-1999; and then a sixth with Sean in 2006. I recall Sean was called Suki at Perth Zoo (I’m not sure why they changed his name).
I too saw Mappin Terraces refurbished for Australian species upon my return and agree it wasn’t a patch on its previous inhabitants.
It would be interesting to see how sloth bears fared in Australasian zoos re. reproductive success.
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@Zoofan15
Yeah totally would be really interesting to see with Sloth Bears faring over here in our region, certain they'd be comfortable but yeah with breeding success would be very interesting to see if was successful outcome (wonder perhaps albeit different bear species if with the handful of Sun Bear breeding successes since '98 and the prior breeding success with Brown Bears and Polar Bears if the husbandry practices and previous knowledge would help assist with Sloth Bear optimal breeding setups.
Thats a great expression (''..wasn't a patch on..'') a first time hearing personally really like the expression. Think my dad and sister and me may have made a ''oh good, was waiting to see these guys'' kind of dry sarcastic joke comment when we saw the Wallabies and Emus there, might sound like am not a fan of either of Wallabies & Emus, but really am fond of, just very familiar with, kind of like am sure we are all fond of Sheep, Goats and Cows etc but not excited to see at any zoo lol.
Yeah I didn't know Sean's name at Perth back then, just knew him as the male Sun Bear who'd come from Cambodia. I think he had his name changed about halfway into his time living at Perth. Just don't think his keepers ever really took off to the idea of his name being Suki. Think same with Barbera (she was called Takia but think she was always Barbera to the keepers pretty much, personally really like the name Takia). Am all for names from countries and regions of origin, but some names sometimes don't always 'gel' or seem to suit some individuals in the mindset of some of the staff who look after at certain times (most of the time they do though, Wellington is great at naming and usually Perth is great at naming too).
Oh yeah am remembering fondly now your spotlight biography on Chomel a few years ago that was great because it mentioned all the other Wellington Zoo Sun Bears who were there with her including her cubs.
Yeah totally would be really interesting to see with Sloth Bears faring over here in our region, certain they'd be comfortable but yeah with breeding success would be very interesting to see if was successful outcome (wonder perhaps albeit different bear species if with the handful of Sun Bear breeding successes since '98 and the prior breeding success with Brown Bears and Polar Bears if the husbandry practices and previous knowledge would help assist with Sloth Bear optimal breeding setups.
Thats a great expression (''..wasn't a patch on..'') a first time hearing personally really like the expression. Think my dad and sister and me may have made a ''oh good, was waiting to see these guys'' kind of dry sarcastic joke comment when we saw the Wallabies and Emus there, might sound like am not a fan of either of Wallabies & Emus, but really am fond of, just very familiar with, kind of like am sure we are all fond of Sheep, Goats and Cows etc but not excited to see at any zoo lol.
Yeah I didn't know Sean's name at Perth back then, just knew him as the male Sun Bear who'd come from Cambodia. I think he had his name changed about halfway into his time living at Perth. Just don't think his keepers ever really took off to the idea of his name being Suki. Think same with Barbera (she was called Takia but think she was always Barbera to the keepers pretty much, personally really like the name Takia). Am all for names from countries and regions of origin, but some names sometimes don't always 'gel' or seem to suit some individuals in the mindset of some of the staff who look after at certain times (most of the time they do though, Wellington is great at naming and usually Perth is great at naming too).
Oh yeah am remembering fondly now your spotlight biography on Chomel a few years ago that was great because it mentioned all the other Wellington Zoo Sun Bears who were there with her including her cubs.
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@Zoofan15
(albeit UK not Aus' in London Zoo's case i.e Mappin Terraces) the good old vacant exhibit filler 101 for Australian zoos ''..stick a couple'a 'Roos and Emus in there, 'she'll' be (al)'right''.
Surprised they didn't put some in the vacant Bongo exhibit at Melbourne (or Ostriches). Melbourne Zoo's versions of substituting with Australian animals we all have liked seeing but: Dingos in the Hunting Dog exhibit and Zillie the Cassowary in the old Mandrill exhibit (albeit sounds much better having Zillie in the big Free Flight Aviary which means old Mandrill exhibit freed up for concepts like great ones mentioned on here).
(albeit UK not Aus' in London Zoo's case i.e Mappin Terraces) the good old vacant exhibit filler 101 for Australian zoos ''..stick a couple'a 'Roos and Emus in there, 'she'll' be (al)'right''.
Surprised they didn't put some in the vacant Bongo exhibit at Melbourne (or Ostriches). Melbourne Zoo's versions of substituting with Australian animals we all have liked seeing but: Dingos in the Hunting Dog exhibit and Zillie the Cassowary in the old Mandrill exhibit (albeit sounds much better having Zillie in the big Free Flight Aviary which means old Mandrill exhibit freed up for concepts like great ones mentioned on here).
That’s a good point about previous husbandry knowledge from the successful breeding and rearing of bears cubs (across all species) being invaluable to zoos in the modern day. The way this advice is shared collaboratively is considerably more complex compared to previous decades, but undeniably how zoos work to achieve the best outcome for the species they manage. An example is Taronga Zoo receiving advice from Hamilton Zoo on the successful rearing of red panda triplets via supplementary feeding.
The main lesson Wellington Zoo learnt regarding the successful rearing of sun bear cubs was the importance of a private space for the female to rear her cubs. Chomel conceived/bred readily, but her first litters died due to mismothering. After a maternity annex was provided to her, she successfully reared her next two litters.
Were Australasian zoos to acquire sloth bears, then I believe it would be advantageous to begin with a minimum of two mother raised pairs held at two zoos. Successful breeding would then supply other zoos, with the potential to form pairs between first generation offspring.