16-year-old Sunny, is due with her first calf between now and August, while Phoebe is due in the fall.
Historic elephant births expected at Columbus Zoo
North American Asian Elephant Population 2025
- Thread starter E Maximus
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Historic elephant births expected at Columbus Zoo
Great thank you for the updated information!
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
On a little different note, isn't the plan for Columbus importing Raja from St Louis this year is still set in stone? They have never specified the month, meaning it could be any day now and iirc the plan was to move him last when they announced it at the end of 2023. STL might now even be preparing for Raja's more by training him on how to enter and exit the transport crates.
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Yes. A keeper told me later this year.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I'm starting to feel ambivalent about Columbus being the next zoo for Raja. Whilst I love that he'll finally get moved out of St Louis as that's the zoo he was born and matured at, I also hesitate how they'll be able to manage him when they house another adult bull (Johnson), who is for sure a proven sire with 8 living offspring at his former facility at ALS, if that will be a long term move. I know Columbus has simultaneously housed two mature bulls each about the same age, but it was short lived with the reason being that particular male had somewhere else to stay when Cincy was finishing construction on Elephant Trek.
Another grey area is that Rudy and Sunny are the only two cows who are definitely viable for offspring meaning more restricted options for both Raja and Johnson to mate. I know Phoebe has 3 or 4 yo son but I still question if she'll be able to produce offspring in the future as she's much older than the other 2 cows.
Another grey area is that Rudy and Sunny are the only two cows who are definitely viable for offspring meaning more restricted options for both Raja and Johnson to mate. I know Phoebe has 3 or 4 yo son but I still question if she'll be able to produce offspring in the future as she's much older than the other 2 cows.
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The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
Yes there uave been examples of captive asian cows producing offspring in their 40's like almost with tess with her last calf and rasha gave birth to a calf at 40. It's interesting that older asian cows seem to struggle with producing offspring less than Africans.
There's absolutely *zero* reason to feel ambivalent towards his transfer.
As mentioned by Yassa, Phoebe likely has at least 10-12 years of reproductive life left in her, if not more, she could easily birth three to four more calves in that time if Columbus so desires. She's an excellent mother and generally healthy animal, so there's no reason to limit her from that.
On the contrary, Rudy *is* most likely non-viable at this point, sadly. She is 23, and despite being artificially inseminated and naturally bred by Sabu, she has yes to successfully conceive and maintain a pregnancy. She is still of an age that there is a *slight* chance she might luck out and be able to successfully breed, but I would say the chances of that are extremely minimal at this point.
Columbus can easily and successfully maintain two mature bulls without issue. Having both Johnson and Raja will set the facility up for success, both bulls can serve as mentors to Frankie and any other bull calves born as they age, and they can breed with each others daughters, assuming Columbus opts to retain both bulls for that long.
Moreover, this move is *crucial* for St Louis to be able to start naturally breeding again, and Samudra is about the best young bull you could ask for.
As mentioned by Yassa, Phoebe likely has at least 10-12 years of reproductive life left in her, if not more, she could easily birth three to four more calves in that time if Columbus so desires. She's an excellent mother and generally healthy animal, so there's no reason to limit her from that.
On the contrary, Rudy *is* most likely non-viable at this point, sadly. She is 23, and despite being artificially inseminated and naturally bred by Sabu, she has yes to successfully conceive and maintain a pregnancy. She is still of an age that there is a *slight* chance she might luck out and be able to successfully breed, but I would say the chances of that are extremely minimal at this point.
Columbus can easily and successfully maintain two mature bulls without issue. Having both Johnson and Raja will set the facility up for success, both bulls can serve as mentors to Frankie and any other bull calves born as they age, and they can breed with each others daughters, assuming Columbus opts to retain both bulls for that long.
Moreover, this move is *crucial* for St Louis to be able to start naturally breeding again, and Samudra is about the best young bull you could ask for.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
If Rudy does turn out to successfully produce future offspring after her current one is due, then she will indubitaly have 20-25 more years of reproductive capabilities. Yes she'll have her first calf at 23, but i wouldn't be too quick to assume she'll never conceive again in the future.
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Ryley
Well-Known Member
As far as we are aware, Rudy is not pregnant and she will not give birth at the age of 23 (her age now).
I would not give up on Rudy at this point with Johnson just being there for a few months. He is a proven breeder that is quite virtual. Maybe he can get her pregnant even with the slim chance. I would let it try for a year or two then quit. I do not like seeing 25 year old cows getting pregnant with their first calves as the risk is higher of non viable calf or a dead mother.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
Another factor to consider is that the recent expanded the outdoor space by renovating the old rhino enclosure after Brian left for Omaha. That gives the outdoor space more than enough room for two adult bulls and possibly more. I'm not sure about the barn being able to successfully manage both Johnson and Raja at the same time longer term tho.
Once again, @The Horse Boy, you are completely ignoring what has already been said. Columbus, as it was, was completely capable of permanently managing two adult bulls in addition to the cow group.
The additional yard (and possibly indoor holding space) only serves to improve the elephants welfare and shifting options, but does not in any way affect their already existing ability to hold two mature bulls and a cow group on a permanent basis.
Also FWIW, in regards to Sabu not being able to get the job done but Johnson possibly being able to, both bulls are equally accomplished in breeding. While Johnson has more surviving offspring, both bulls have successfully bred the same number of cows (4 each), and are likely of a comparable "viability" in the natural breeding department. Of course a miracle could always happen and Rudy could successfully conceive and maintain a pregnancy from Raja or Johnson, but after ~18 years of cycling and never having a calf, the chances are...slim, at best.
The additional yard (and possibly indoor holding space) only serves to improve the elephants welfare and shifting options, but does not in any way affect their already existing ability to hold two mature bulls and a cow group on a permanent basis.
Also FWIW, in regards to Sabu not being able to get the job done but Johnson possibly being able to, both bulls are equally accomplished in breeding. While Johnson has more surviving offspring, both bulls have successfully bred the same number of cows (4 each), and are likely of a comparable "viability" in the natural breeding department. Of course a miracle could always happen and Rudy could successfully conceive and maintain a pregnancy from Raja or Johnson, but after ~18 years of cycling and never having a calf, the chances are...slim, at best.
I am not trying to say that Sabu is not vital, when he is. I am trying to say Johnson is more effective when it comes to mating. He has more experience being in a breeding situation for many more years and cows than Sabu has. Sabu is a proven producer because he has produced two known calves. Johnson has the experience to get around the cows, for example, I know of a certain bull that is quite proven in Europe with many calves, he would use his one tusk to dominant over the cow and mount her when he is ensured he has control, and with experience he was ablle to predict her cycle where she is ripe for fertilization (remember a cow is only fertile for a few days per cycle). It may be one reason Rudy is not pregnant, Sabu is not able to dominant over her due to different personalities. Granted they may have mated, but it may not be at the right time of the cycle. The list goes on.
Another thing: Sabu has not been in a breeding situation for +/- 20 years.
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This argument really has little value when you consider that one bull has had access to a multitude of proven females, whilst the other hasn't. So obviously one would be more 'successful' than another.
I don't think 'experience' has anything to do with it too - if a bull knows how to mate a cow, he will be able to mate a cow. The more opportunities a bull gets to do so is not going to make him any better at getting the job done.
However, in some cases as you have stated, personalities can clash, and the cow will refuse the bull. It's a possibility this may have been the case for Rudy and Sabu, but at this point, due to her age it's very unlikely she has the time to accept another bull (like Johnson).
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I guess St Louis is still dead set on Samdrua being the bull to replace Raja when he goes to Columbus and it looks immediate. I do find it a bit understandable on them being over attached to Raja staying at STL all his life before the Columbus move in his early mid 30s. He was well loved by the local community and zoo staff practically rendering him a local celebrity as he was the first elephant born at the facility which is regarded as historic.
Of course they would be dead-set on Samudra moving to Saint Louis, bulls don't stay with their natal herds their whole lives. I don't see what the issue is at all, Columbus, Oregon and Saint Louis didn't make this decision in a vacuum.
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The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
And Samudra is of prefect ripe age for it as he will turn 17 next month. So I'm sure he'll be that age when he arrives at STL. A few other facilities have done that with bulls around 17 or 18 like when Birmingham sending the 2 former African bachelor bulls to breeding facilities they were around that age. Another reason he's an excellent nominee would be his upbringing and herd enviornments were unblemished with him witnessing breeding in his life and getting appropriate guidance from an older bull at the facility in his bachelor years. I am more than confident he'll successfully start mounting and impregnating the 3 younger cows- Maliha Jade and Priya- right off the bat. And these respective females are of perfect breeding ages
It was also the egos at the Zoo to hold Raja so long. It also brings PR.
Personally, I do not understand why the intention to move Raja to Colombus. Granted, Johnson has several offspring, but with three cows? They will need the space for any bulls born, and Raja may be needed more elsewhere. I am sure there are circumstances that we may never know leading to the decision.