Australasian Common Chimpanzee Population

Jambo said:
The owners of Ridgeways refused to give up Mr Muggins. He was one of the baby of the Ridgeway's chimps (born in the mid 90's), so it explains why the whole team was infatuated with him and refused to give him up to the sanctuary, and later Rockhampton.

It'll be interesting to know what exactly happened to him - he was still alive as of 2009 (evident by Rockhampton's attempted acquisition). But I don't know how much longer he was alive after that.
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Yes, correct - I read that Carolyn Ridgway regarded Mr Muggins as her "baby" and refused to give him up. From what little I can find out about him, it seems he was taken with the Ridgways to Australia and the trail seems to go cold after 2009, although some online are saying he was euthanized because authorities insisted on a standard enclosure being built for him instead of living with his human handlers. I am not sure who made the decision to euthanize Muggins or when that occurred - at any rate, he should have been sent to Chimfunshi to join his brothers.
 
ApeLadyNZ said:
@Zoofan15 - yes, that does sound about right for where Suzie and Sally would have been housed for a time. I do remember they were kept apart from Janie, Josie and Bobby but that zoo staff were able to integrate the sisters with each other (and as we know, eventually with the breeding troop also).

I still found myself wondering why the zoo went with the whole "Q" thing for the sisters - I do remember there was a popular song called "Suzie Q", so perhaps that was why. It didn't stick, obviously, and was well and truly forgotten by the time the sisters reached Hamilton.
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The tea party chimps would have posed a danger to Suzie and Sally while they were infants (or even juveniles) and in any case, they were far from a model of the behavioural repertoire of a chimpanzee.

It’s difficult to say whether peer raising Suzie and Sally (by acquiring juveniles from Wellington’s prolific colony) would have enhanced their social skills. It’s had mixed results across the region, but has been most successful at Wellington, who have had a range of raising styles (parent, peer and foster) throughout their colony’s history.

Regarding the ‘Q’ on the end of Suzie and Sally’s names, I’d assume these were just nicknames given by keepers. A Tiger by the Tail references them as Suzie and Sally, so I don’t believe it was anything official.
 
Zoofan15 said:
The tea party chimps would have posed a danger to Suzie and Sally while they were infants (or even juveniles) and in any case, they were far from a model of the behavioural repertoire of a chimpanzee.

It’s difficult to say whether peer raising Suzie and Sally (by acquiring juveniles from Wellington’s prolific colony) would have enhanced their social skills. It’s had mixed results across the region, but has been most successful at Wellington, who have had a range of raising styles (parent, peer and foster) throughout their colony’s history.

Regarding the ‘Q’ on the end of Suzie and Sally’s names, I’d assume these were just nicknames given by keepers. A Tiger by the Tail references them as Suzie and Sally, so I don’t believe it was anything official.
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Agreed - the tea party chimps would not have been safe for Suzie and Sally, and even if they had been, the unnatural behaviours they would have picked up would have been very damaging indeed.

That's interesting, that they didn't consider peer-raising Suzie and Sally. I think it may have improved their social skills, and a proximity to young males may have stimulating interest in mating behaviour - but sadly, we'll never know.

I do remember wall plaques displaying the names "Suzie Q" and "Sally Q" on their former cages and remember that at one point the sisters were in separate cages, then housed together before moving into the open-air exhibit. Back when I was a youngster, I wondered why the tea party chimps didn't go with them, although of course I know the reason why now.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Welcome to ZooChat. The only information I have on Mr Muggins is that he was born 1993 to Lola, who was herself born at Taronga Zoo in 1964 to Bobby and Suzie. Suzie was a wild born Central chimpanzee, so all three brothers (Sonny, Buddy and Mr Muggins) would have had Central chimpanzee DNA. A large percentage of the region’s chimpanzee population are related to Mr Muggins as his maternal grandfather was a prolific sire at Taronga during his tenure as alpha.

With regards to Mr Muggins specifically, @Primatologist advised he was euthanised, but there’s no further information publicly available. You could try contacting Ridgeways Circus where he lived his life.

There’s also a documentary here (shared by @Jambo a couple of years ago):

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Thank you so much for that
 
ApeLadyNZ said:
Agreed - the tea party chimps would not have been safe for Suzie and Sally, and even if they had been, the unnatural behaviours they would have picked up would have been very damaging indeed.

That's interesting, that they didn't consider peer-raising Suzie and Sally. I think it may have improved their social skills, and a proximity to young males may have stimulating interest in mating behaviour - but sadly, we'll never know.

I do remember wall plaques displaying the names "Suzie Q" and "Sally Q" on their former cages and remember that at one point the sisters were in separate cages, then housed together before moving into the open-air exhibit. Back when I was a youngster, I wondered why the tea party chimps didn't go with them, although of course I know the reason why now.
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That’s fascinating to hear more of Auckland’s chimpanzee housing arrangements. I’ve only had data to go from, but drew similar conclusions of Bobby, Jamie and Josie living in one group; Charlie and Siss living in another cage (possibly joined by Minnie, before her death in 1964); and them then the third cage housing first the orangutans (Topsy and Turvey) and then Suzie once the moved out circa 1968. The second cage would have been vacated for Sally when her parents both died in 1971, when she was less than a year old.

I don’t know what year Susie and Sally were integrated, but it was presumably done in the cages, with them then moving across to the open air exhibit in the late 1970’s. Mike then arrived in 1982 when they were aged 18 and 12 years old respectively.

Curiously, Charlie and Siss also produced an infant in 1965 and an infant in 1971, neither of which survived infancy. Had either of these infants lived, it could have enhanced the social development of Suzie and Sally.
 
Thank you for all the information guys appreciate the help! I have done a lot of reaching out to people on this subject and have had a lot of mixed stories, reports, and information?
I was after a little more information still though!
I noticed a member prior mention he was put down as the owners didn't want him to go else where? It was a little confusing as to why that was the only option? Where has he been staying?
Also a long the lines of how did he find his way to Australia Queensland from New Zealand?
 
ApeLadyNZ said:
Yes, correct - I read that Carolyn Ridgway regarded Mr Muggins as her "baby" and refused to give him up. From what little I can find out about him, it seems he was taken with the Ridgways to Australia and the trail seems to go cold after 2009, although some online are saying he was euthanized because authorities insisted on a standard enclosure being built for him instead of living with his human handlers. I am not sure who made the decision to euthanize Muggins or when that occurred - at any rate, he should have been sent to Chimfunshi to join his brothers.
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I definitely agree on this. Hence why I am confused
 
Zoofan15 said:
That’s fascinating to hear more of Auckland’s chimpanzee housing arrangements. I’ve only had data to go from, but drew similar conclusions of Bobby, Jamie and Josie living in one group; Charlie and Siss living in another cage (possibly joined by Minnie, before her death in 1964); and them then the third cage housing first the orangutans (Topsy and Turvey) and then Suzie once the moved out circa 1968. The second cage would have been vacated for Sally when her parents both died in 1971, when she was less than a year old.

I don’t know what year Susie and Sally were integrated, but it was presumably done in the cages, with them then moving across to the open air exhibit in the late 1970’s. Mike then arrived in 1982 when they were aged 18 and 12 years old respectively.

Curiously, Charlie and Siss also produced an infant in 1965 and an infant in 1971, neither of which survived infancy. Had either of these infants lived, it could have enhanced the social development of Suzie and Sally.
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My own memory's quite hazy about which animals were where; my strongest memory of that time was Suzie and Sally's name plaques and that the tea party chimps were separate. I don't remember if the tea party chimps had name plaques - possibly not. I do think you're right about Suzie and Sally's integration taking place in the cages.

I wonder if some people, reading A Tiger by the Tail, confused the births of Suzie and the non-surviving infant in 1965 and somehow came up with the mistaken idea (that someone actually told to me as fact) that there was a Bobby x Josie infant that didn't survive?

It would have been interesting if Charlie and Siss's deceased infants had survived and what the impact on the Auckland chimps would have been. I've read that Siss's last infant was a male and that Siss was indeed starting to care for him. Their loss was a sad one indeed.

I wonder if the zoo would have ever considered trying to integrate Suzie and Sally with Charlie and Siss as adolescents if Charlie, Siss and their unnamed infant had lived? Perhaps not, as they wouldn't have wanted Suzie and Sally mating with their father and brother, but if others had been brought in to form a larger troop, maybe?
 
Jambo said:
Charlie Ridgeway and his wife moved up to Australia, Queensland specifically, circa 2000, taking Mr Muggins and the circus with them.
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I did further research on this years back, and just had to dig out my notes.

So to further the above information; the reason why Mr Muggins was never sent to Zambia was because he was actually owned by different owners.

Circus Magic was run by Cary Ridgeway and he owned Lola, Sonny and Buddy. He had given Mr Muggins to his brother, Charlie Ridgeway and his wife, Carolyn, who ran Ridgeways.

Cary attempted to sell Lola and Buddy to a Fijian Circus but those plans fell through, and he ended up closing his circus in 2000 and retiring Lola and Buddy to a Samoan Sanctuary, where Lola died soon after. Cary had immense pressure on him from activists and the like, and crumbled later sending Buddy to Zambia.
 
ApeLadyNZ said:
My own memory's quite hazy about which animals were where; my strongest memory of that time was Suzie and Sally's name plaques and that the tea party chimps were separate. I don't remember if the tea party chimps had name plaques - possibly not. I do think you're right about Suzie and Sally's integration taking place in the cages.

I wonder if some people, reading A Tiger by the Tail, confused the births of Suzie and the non-surviving infant in 1965 and somehow came up with the mistaken idea (that someone actually told to me as fact) that there was a Bobby x Josie infant that didn't survive?

It would have been interesting if Charlie and Siss's deceased infants had survived and what the impact on the Auckland chimps would have been. I've read that Siss's last infant was a male and that Siss was indeed starting to care for him. Their loss was a sad one indeed.

I wonder if the zoo would have ever considered trying to integrate Suzie and Sally with Charlie and Siss as adolescents if Charlie, Siss and their unnamed infant had lived? Perhaps not, as they wouldn't have wanted Suzie and Sally mating with their father and brother, but if others had been brought in to form a larger troop, maybe?
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While A Tiger by the Tail is an excellent book, I’ve found at least four errors and that is indeed one of them - stating that a chimpanzee born 1964 was dragged around the cage by its mother (one of the original tea party chimps), removed from its mother and died. I’ve found the corresponding article and it matches Suzie’s DOB. The infant therefore didn’t die and it wasn’t born to one of the original tea party chimps.

The 1965 infant appears in the studbook, without parents listed. Since Charlie and Siss were the only pair to breed (producing three other infants between 1964-1971), I felt confident assigning the 1965 infant to them.

The 1971 infant was indeed male and reared by Siss, who sadly died from birth complications three weeks after the birth. Her weakened state caused her to reject her baby, who was given a 50:50 chance of survival. Had Siss survived, I don’t doubt the male infant would have done too and quite possibly proved a developmentally normal male chimpanzee. Suzie and Sally may well have later been integrated with their mother and brother. Wellington did similar, with three handraised chimps joined Bebe and her mother raised sons.
 
I do understand that he moved here he was recorded in New Zealand early 2001 and with the laws brought in tightened by that time I am dumbfounded how a circus owner was able to be permitted to bring him in as a pet??? Even though QLD is well let's face it a little behind the other states with there animal welfare guidelines I can't see how that would be possible.
 
I found this post on another thread from a member that didn't quite sit right???

"The owners of Mr Muggins always wanted the very best for him so they carefully investigated the Rockhampton proposal. They decided to reject it as being too dangerous to try to integrate a humanised, castrated animal with two larger, older, entire males.

A former associate of what is now Zambi engaged in deceitful conduct in order to help to achieve the seizure of the chimp. As you know, karma has now sorted him out!

When Mugs' owners ran out of options to safeguard his welfare they made the gut wrenching decision to put him to sleep. This was done with dignity by a veterinarian, he died holding the hand of one of his human family and he now rests in a very private place.

This decision by Mr Muggins' family was totally vindicated by a later tragedy. Some of the same people who would have been attempting to integrate Mugs with Cassie and Ockie at Rockhampton later attempted to integrate some other chimps at another zoo. One of those chimps was murdered by another one in horrific circumstances."

It doesn't seem like that could be a truthful statement?
 
Lindachimp said:
I found this post on another thread from a member that didn't quite sit right???

"The owners of Mr Muggins always wanted the very best for him so they carefully investigated the Rockhampton proposal. They decided to reject it as being too dangerous to try to integrate a humanised, castrated animal with two larger, older, entire males.

A former associate of what is now Zambi engaged in deceitful conduct in order to help to achieve the seizure of the chimp. As you know, karma has now sorted him out!

When Mugs' owners ran out of options to safeguard his welfare they made the gut wrenching decision to put him to sleep. This was done with dignity by a veterinarian, he died holding the hand of one of his human family and he now rests in a very private place.

This decision by Mr Muggins' family was totally vindicated by a later tragedy. Some of the same people who would have been attempting to integrate Mugs with Cassie and Ockie at Rockhampton later attempted to integrate some other chimps at another zoo. One of those chimps was murdered by another one in horrific circumstances."

It doesn't seem like that could be a truthful statement?
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I see you’re referring to a post from 2014 by @Steve Robinson, who has decades of experience in the industry and is considered a reliable source of information. The full post can be found here:

Exotic Mammals in Australian Zoos - old version

@Primatologist advised in a post that Charlie died during introductions (at Mogo Zoo), so this may be the chimpanzee @Steve Robinson referred to.

Mogo acquired two groups of chimpanzees (Charlie and Samantha; Luis and Holly). Samantha and Holly later went to Rockhampton Zoo and were introduced to the entire males you mention (Cassius and Octavias). After the death of Octavias, an adult female and adolescent male were brought in and successfully introduced to the three at Rockhampton. A castrated male was later introduced to Rockhampton’s two adult males, but he was an adult.
 
I am not disputing the source of information, I am disputing the information.
I would think, well hope most people in this area would question this or press for a little more information rather than go along to get along. This info seems to raise a few red flags to me and I can't not address them in my paper, hence getting all the information I can.
 
Lindachimp said:
I am not disputing the source of information, I am disputing the information.
I would think, well hope most people in this area would question this or press for a little more information rather than go along to get along. This info seems to raise a few red flags to me and I can't not address them in my paper, hence getting all the information I can.
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As I previously mentioned, I’d suggest contacting Ridgways for further information about this chimpanzee.

We’ve shared everything we know that’s public knowledge and anything that isn’t should be down to this owners whether they wish to disclose that to you.
 
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