The thing is it all depends on who is managing the zoo/s, While there has been some outstanding zoo directors/managers within the country over the years there has also been some not so good ones as well who do make some bad decisions such as deleting a certain endangered species because its not liked by director X, also it has been mentioned on the forum before as an example of the proposed phasing out of the black/white Ruffled Lemur species and replace it with the Red Ruffled Lemur, This if it did happen would be very counter productive they have been breeding as planned and are an engaging and attractive species so if they are wanted bring them in and exhibit them but don't sacrifice one established species for the other on a whim because "someone" likes them.
Melbourne Zoo The Future of Zoos Victoria 2025 (Speculation/Fantasy)
- Thread starter Zoofan15
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I’m not a fan of the list either. I’ve often said that anything’s enabling if you sell it to people and on my last visit to Hamilton Zoo, I saw the perfect example:
It was school holidays and the Fishing cat was about to be fed. Pieces of chicken were scattered throughout the three on display exhibits and then the cats were let out. A large crowd gathered, each window packed with people (some who’d never seen a Fishing cat before). They watched the cats come right up to the glass (one even put her paws on the window ledge and pressed her nose against the glass); and roll around on the grass with scent enrichment jars on their heads. The engagement was off the charts - people were taking photos, asking questions etc. Seeing them so close was the highlight of my visit and I’d imagine it was many others that day.
To tie back into the point you and @Zorro made, I agree that all too often species are dismissed as not being engaging enough, when it’s all about how they’re displayed and marketed. It’s no secret that small felids like Temminck’s golden cat and Fishing cat breed poorly when on display; but that’s no reason for zoos not designate one or two holders as breeding hubs, which in turn supply other holders with felids that absolutely can be engaging exhibits.
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The thing is, most majour zoos have the room for red ruffed lemurs and black and white. It'd be interesting to see if they can cohabitate like rings and black and white can. That makes phasing one out for the other even more of **** decision.
Zoo's Vic list is something pulled out for reasons only management can understand. Why phase out Addax but bring in Nyala. One is critically endangered the other is least concern. Nyala dont fit any of the criteria in any meaningful way. Addax have 3 at least. Im all for diversifying and increasing African antelope. But that decision makes no sense and doesn't follow there criterion. The same as having multiple meerkat species but talks of phasing out spider monkeys.
Management teams seem to be lacking in any sort of actual ability and typically in government they surround themselves with yes man. Look at MZ, they still dont have a replacement for the elephants. That has been literal years in the making, yet they haven't got a solid replacement or idea ?
Taronga has a nice exhibit for fishing cat, even inside the sleeping quarters you can view the cat. But yes exhibiting species plays a big roll. Look at MZ vs TZ for binturong. Same species big difference.
My understanding and I am sure @Jambo will correct me on this is that Melbourne's zoo board has about a dozen people from all walks of life some might have little or no known age about wild animal species at all this in my view does not make for the better option for running a collection of exotic animal species from all around the world but at the end of the day they have to live with it!
The Zoological Parks and Gardens Board is appointed by the Victorian Minister for Environment and Climate Change.
The profiles of the current board members can be found here:
Governance, policies & procurement | Zoos Victoria
A Professor of Ecology and a Veterinarian are the most zoological related backgrounds. I acknowledge those from accounting backgrounds etc. bring invaluable skills to the table; but I’m sure we’d all appreciate more representation from the zoological community alongside these skill sets.
Black and white ruffed lemur and Red lemur can hybridise, so that’s adds to the challenges of them cohabiting together.
Ring-tailed lemurs are often favoured by zoos because large numbers of related females can cohabit without issue. Ruffed lemur are more territorial (especially females); and so females often have to be separated from their mother once they’re sexually mature (especially if a male is present in the group).
The problem is that in reality, seven out of the nine board members really have little if any previous experience with a zoo setting. That's a huge number - and obviously most are coming from business and PR backgrounds where the focus will be on that sort of stuff ie. visitor numbers, engagement and education.
Zoos Vic are certainly big on education and conservation, driven by long time CEO Jenny Gray. Melbourne Zoo's previous director, Kevin Tanner took the zoo in a great direction with the elephant breeding program, Wild Sea, Carnivores ect. all coming under his time as Zoo Director. Melbourne's current director - Sheri Horiszny comes from a background as a director of animal programs in several zoos in the USA, so she's probably the most best qualified director the zoos had in a while when it comes to the zoo experience side of things.
Werribee have also done well in that department - former director Glen Holland, having previously been director at Auckland and Healesville, and the current director Mark Pilgrim, coming from Chester after spending decades there leading some of their successful programs with their elephants and black rhinos. I remember watching him on the TV show 'Zoo Days' which used to air here occasionally, so it's cool to have him now director at Werribee, certainly taking them in the right direction.
The problem with getting permission to import a new species though is that there needs to be a level agreement on a national level with other facilities whereby a breeding program can be begun. Relying on a single zoo to mantain a single species is difficult, especially if you have to be dependent on imports constantly. That was where Melbourne's coati program fell apart.
So it does make sense to stick with one Ruffed Lemur species if possible. With only ten facilities within Australia dedicated to the species - it would be beneficial to have all working together.
Addax were not phased out specifically for Nyala. As I've previously mentioned, the Addax were previously in the mixed drive through habitats but learned to tip toe over the cattle grates so had to be moved into one of the few separate paddocks. I'm not sure whether that was the reasoning for phasing them out, but it could have been as they were anticipating transforming the area where those paddocks were/are for the new Waterhole trail and that hasn't gone to plan thus far.
With the elephants, the zoo is likely planning something big, and is waiting on confirmation on funding ect. An announcement would then be made once finalised. They're not going to jump the gun and promise something big and then not be able to follow through; especially when it comes to something as big as what's replacing the elephants!
@Jambo So do you think there was a national agreement with other zoos to import Indian rhinos where no other zoos other than Taronga/Dubbo has received them in all the years now that they have been in the country?
I don't believe so, but correct me if I'm wrong!
We can assume not as Perth publicly stated their interest in acquiring the species in the 2010’s:
Our curatorial team are also looking at what new species would best suit our site in the future. This could include Bongo, a stunning antelope species and nature’s armoured tanks, the endangered One-horned Rhino. This rhino species love to swim and could make a big splash in a future waterhole exhibit at the Zoo.
That's a long time ago and a lot of water under the bridge also a lot of management changes around since then!
The Sleepy Hippo
Well-Known Member
I can't see it being beneficial to Taronga to gatekeep the species. Maybe against Sydney zoo, but other zoos, zero benefit. Noone (or near to nobody) will visit Taronga especially for Indian rhino. At least that's my take.
I think it benefits their collection, but it's not going to make a big enough point of difference nationally. Maybe with its direct neighbours but I can't see much beyond that.
I think it benefits their collection, but it's not going to make a big enough point of difference nationally. Maybe with its direct neighbours but I can't see much beyond that.
I agree. I’ve known people from New Zealand and other Australian states to see Adelaide Zoo’s Giant panda; and at a stretch, it possible Werribee’s elephant complex would attract inter-state visitation; but definitely not an Indian rhinoceros.
I’ve often said Okapi, despite being hugely exciting for the zoo community, would be under-appreciated by the public and I suspect it will be the same for Hari at Taronga. To the general public, a rhinoceros is a rhinoceros and despite its impressive armour, the Indian species will likely generate only marginally more hype than a Southern white rhinoceros.
That’s why Zoos Victoria will be hard pushed to decide on an attraction to replace their elephants. Bar Giant pandas, there’s nothing that can exceed or even match the draw the elephants were.
Its been other species as well not just Indian rhino
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
You guys have probably seen this before but thought I may as well attach it for those who have not.
This comes from the 2024 - 2027 corporate plan.
Interestingly that Permanent ropes course is in place of Tree top apes and monkeys. ( already discussed on Zoo chat).
I could think of so many other place for Kids activity course. Werribee is the obvious location. Whilst tree top apes and monkeys is in need for a renovation lets think about the species there
1. Cotton Top Tamarin
2. Spider monkey
3. Colobus
4. White cheeked gibbon
5. Emperor Tamarin.
The colobus could be moved to the empty mandril enclosure
The gibbons to the extend Orangutan sanctuary or new island enclosure.
I am in favor of Baboons being located to Werribee and Melbourne using this area for tapir, spider monkey and possible other South American species.
If a ropes course were to be build, there could still be space for small primate enclosures along the course with a main visitor pathway. This could showcase the different levels of the forest floor, something along those lines. If the south and anteater ira was passed this would be even better!
The other image is also of note about the plans
This comes from the 2024 - 2027 corporate plan.
Interestingly that Permanent ropes course is in place of Tree top apes and monkeys. ( already discussed on Zoo chat).
I could think of so many other place for Kids activity course. Werribee is the obvious location. Whilst tree top apes and monkeys is in need for a renovation lets think about the species there
1. Cotton Top Tamarin
2. Spider monkey
3. Colobus
4. White cheeked gibbon
5. Emperor Tamarin.
The colobus could be moved to the empty mandril enclosure
The gibbons to the extend Orangutan sanctuary or new island enclosure.
I am in favor of Baboons being located to Werribee and Melbourne using this area for tapir, spider monkey and possible other South American species.
If a ropes course were to be build, there could still be space for small primate enclosures along the course with a main visitor pathway. This could showcase the different levels of the forest floor, something along those lines. If the south and anteater ira was passed this would be even better!
The other image is also of note about the plans
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Wow, good to see a concise plan for all of the facilities. It seems Zoos Vic are indeed pursuing the direction that's been communicated to us members.
As we've previously discussed - the best place for the Rope Course is easily Werribee beside the Werribee River.
Out of those species in the treetops, I can easily see three not being their in the near future. Gibbons will likely be rehomed elsewhere in the zoo (Japanese Island or Orangutan expansion). As will the Colobus, whether at Melbourne, or Werribee. And the deaths/departures of two female Spider Monkeys cuts the zoos numbers down even further to a point where a die out looms.
Leaving the Tamarin species, of which could easily be rehoused elsewhere in the zoo, or as a feature complimentary species to a new Ropes complex - although I'd prefer to see this be a larger primate species (like Spider Monkey).
Thanks for sharing.
It’s encouraging to see Melbourne Zoo have at least identified the need for a replacement for the elephants. None of us expected three large paddocks to be left empty for the next decade; but clearly replacing them with something worthwhile had been identified as a priority and we can expect to hear what that something is sooner rather than later.
A ropes course is a poor replacement for Treetops. Unless spider monkey are going to join Brazilian tapir in an expanded exhibit (which could also be built at Werribee), I don’t foresee a future for them at Melbourne Zoo. It’s unclear what aspirations they have to hold colobus long term; but I’m in favour of housing them at Werribee (in replacement of the ageing Vervet monkey) and also at Melbourne (in the Pygmy hippopotamus exhibit). The Pygmy hippopotamus facilities they have are sufficient to receive a female and breed long term, so there’d be little achieved in demoliting the Mandrill exhibit. Might as well fill it with something worthwhile that will compliment the other Congo species.
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dylan downward
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand the point of them being another kid playground thing I thought this was a zoo not a playground may as well not call it a zoo anymore
The rope course might be a bit underwhelming
