A post from forumster KEEPER suddenly made me qurious...

Dan

Dan

Well-Known Member
Not zoo related, therefore posted in The Zoo Cafe:

The current thread about the "Heck cattle"/aurochs is interesting and a certain post by forumster KEEPER from Spain made me think about something:

Bulls bred to end up at the bullfighting arena seem to live in large herds? Usually, hoofstock males (actually most animal males, I guess) are hostile towards each others.

How come the bulls eventually killed (tortured to death) in the arena are not hostile towards each other out in the grass fields?

Or have I totally misunderstood this?
 
They're normally only aggressive towards each other if a female is present. For example the 2 male lions at Hamburg zoo, and all the bullocks on the farm at my college all live together fine. It also depends on the individual.
 
That may very well be the answer. I have no idea - that was why I posed the question. But could it really be as "simple" as that?

"Second opinion", anyone?
 
I think that is literally all it could be tbh. Gorillas can live in all male groups, but would fight if more than one mature male was in a group of females.
 
You may be right, Ashely-h, but I would still like some "second opinions". No offence, I hope?
 
Nah that's fine, just thought of another example and wrote it ;)
 
ashley-h said:
I think that is literally all it could be tbh. Gorillas can live in all male groups, but would fight if more than one mature male was in a group of females.
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Actually that is not really the case.

It is interesting about the bulls.

It could be as simple as testosterone. Where would the world be without it !!!
 
Its not just bulls used in bullfighting - bulls used in rodeos for bull riding are aggressive animals, but can be kept in herds if no cows are present. There is a certain amount of head-butting to work out a hierarchy, but usually they coexist quite well.
 
I doubt that Dan will read this post, but why not give it a try?

Intraspecific male aggression is a common problem in many, many species-not just animals, but also humans, as everyone, who has ever witnessed or participated in a barhouse brawl on Friday nights, or as a kid in a playground fight, knows...
A "bachelor" setting in a zoo exhibit without any females closeby can help to sustain a calm atmosphere, but that is not obligatory; it depends on the species, social setting, enclosure design, husbandry regime and on individuals. Some bachelor gorilla groups work; others had to be broken up because of severe fighting, with individual animals constantly bullying others. Homosexuality, similar to human prisoners, can also occur; not that popular among zoo visitors, especially when sexual dimorphism is apparent...see Poznan's "gay" elephant.

Young bulls are kept together in various agricultural settings; after a certain age and size, the further establishment of a rank system might lead to more or less serious aggression and thus seperation. In modern Western agriculture, they are already on their way to the slaughterhouse before that happens...

In the case of the bulls above, large oxens of a certain breed are used both for herding the bulls as well as kind of "chaperons", whose presence seems to a soothing effect on the bulls.
 
Perhaps bulls are usually by nature friendly towards each other but have a specific grudge against the colour red or people?? Or they have been specifically tramautised by humans to make them resent them?

But Ashley-h's guess is probably the best bet.
 
Dan,
Bulls are quite content existing with other bulls, agression usually occurs when there are females present. but not always. and if you see some bull fights the bulls aren't always overly agressive, even when they charge a matador. similarly with rodeo bulls, you'd go a bit mental if you were very ticklish and someone wouldn't stop tickling your armpits. very similar.
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
have a specific grudge against the colour red or people?? Or they have been specifically traumatized by humans to make them resent them?
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What is it about Bulls charging Red???

Seems that there is plenty of reasons for bulls to resent us!!!

Jakari, you don't really mean to compare the treatment of rodeo bulls to tickling? Do you?
 
Yes I do. It is not a painful experience, just uncomfortable. and bulls are not more aggressive toward any specific colours.
 
Of course I mean to make them buck. There are other practices outside the rodeo arena but you will find these on alot of cattle properties.
 
Jarkari said:
Yes I do. It is not a painful experience, just uncomfortable..
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Would have to disagree with you on that one.

It causes pain and is incredibly uncomfortable.
 
It causes no pain whatsoever. I will admit it is scary, but what makes bulls buck is the same thing that makes horses buck, a flank strp that is tightened. In fact to be able to ride horses you MUST desensitize (sp?) the horses to this to prevent the same reaction. not at all painful, a bit scarry but as I said, it is like being grabbed under the arms for a human. not even that uncomfortable. again scary, because this a place predators attack.

Also in response to your question Dan, I have two neighbours who make a very good living out of only housing bulls on their properties, in the same paddock. It is common pratice to house bulls together
 
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so is it just like used because something like red is a regal colour in spain???
 
I think it's because matador's capes were always red, so they assumed that's what angered the bull when it wasn't.
 
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