that has just solved something that has always confused me. i distinctly remembered bulluman being the troop silverback at the time of that birth, yet i knew he was infertile. i had no idea that motaba was a part of the troop albeit as a young "black-back"...
Melbourne Zoo Rigo the gorilla.....
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that has just solved something that has always confused me. i distinctly remembered bulluman being the troop silverback at the time of that birth, yet i knew he was infertile. i had no idea that motaba was a part of the troop albeit as a young "black-back"...
I think it was bit confusing for all at the time, Patrick. I'm pretty sure that for a short time Motaba and Mzuri were part of the group with Buliman. It was known that Buliman was infertile and Betsy's pregnancy was a bit of a surprise.....which left Motaba and Mzuri as possible fathers.
We all know that Motaba then fathered Bambuti/Behasha two years later and the three current seven year olds followed after that.
We all know that Motaba then fathered Bambuti/Behasha two years later and the three current seven year olds followed after that.
There would have been blood tests taken to determine who the father was.
Yassa, you're in Germany...are you anywhere near Buzandi (in Hanover)? I last saw him in person when he was about 9 (just before he left) and I've only seen photos of him as an adult. His face hasn't changed but the rest of him has filled out.
Yassa, you're in Germany...are you anywhere near Buzandi (in Hanover)? I last saw him in person when he was about 9 (just before he left) and I've only seen photos of him as an adult. His face hasn't changed but the rest of him has filled out.
Yes, they definately were both in the group with Buluman. This is how I saw them on my 2nd visit to Melbourne circa 1991.
A few dates;
Mzuri/Yk was born 03.06.84. Sent to Jersey 18.06.93.
Motaba was born(Jersey) 23.12.83. sent to Melbourne 24.03.90
Buzandi was born 30.12.91.
There was a three year overlap during which Mzuri and Motaba were both living in the Melbourne group, before Mzuri left for Jersey. Motaba is just over 6 months older than Mzuri.
Not Yassa, but I've seen several photos of Buzandi as a silverback. He's very handsome- looks very like Betsi. Bambuti, his younger sister at Jersey, doesn't look similar(more wrinkled face).
When Buzandi first went to Hanover as their new male (after the previous one,Arti, drowned in the moat..) they added him to their group and found he was very aggressive. Amid all the scuffles he badly injured the year old baby of one female. They called him a 'psycho' but really he was only following normal behaviour for a silverback taking over a new group i.e. wanting to kill off any unrelated infants. It might have been better not to add that female & baby to him at that stage.( the baby did recover)
Anyway, time healed the situation, Buzandi settled down and is nowadays group leader and model father to several babies of his own. Bambuti at Jersey hasn't bred yet- probably not her fault, more likely to be Mzuri/Yk who will only breed with the one female(Hallali Kahilli- mother of his son and daughter). They have tried to AI Bambuti using Mzuri's semen but this hasn't worked either- so far.
G.Ann and Juli's story;
Do you know how G.Anne and julia came to be in Melbourne? Both lived in the Jersey group okay under the famous silverback Jambo,(Motaba's father) but neither would let him mate. Then Jambo died and Mzuri came from Melbourne as the replacement male. He didn't like Julia and actively started to try and oust her from the group. On one occassion he caught Julia and roughed her up resulting in a broken leg. She had to be isolated for some time while it haled, and G.Anne(also not Mzuri's favourite) was kept with her for company. During this time Jersey realised it was futile trying to integrate them back into Mzuri'/Yk's group as he just didn't like them- so they looked for a new home for hem.
With the link already established with the Motaba/Mzuri exchange, Melbourne was thought an ideal choice. (That's why Bambuti later went the other way, to Jersey as an exchange female). At Melbourne they met up with Motaba again, whom they'd known and played with as a younger male in the Jersey group. They were obviously relaxed enough with him to let mating happen too- it certainly never would have with YK if they'd stayed at Jersey.
taronga & melbourne's gorilla genes to meet?
It seems likely that the young female gorilla 'Safiri' from the Taronga group who recently joined the group of Duisburg Zoo, Germany, will soon have a new partner, eleven year old 'Mapema' from Paignton zoo- who is the grandson of Melbourne's Rigo!
So the two Australian genetic lines may join up in future- in Germany. That's provided it is planned to breed from them, but the fact that Duisburg wish to replace their old non-breeding male 'Catou' for a younger, more virile model indicates they plan to do so.
It seems likely that the young female gorilla 'Safiri' from the Taronga group who recently joined the group of Duisburg Zoo, Germany, will soon have a new partner, eleven year old 'Mapema' from Paignton zoo- who is the grandson of Melbourne's Rigo!
So the two Australian genetic lines may join up in future- in Germany. That's provided it is planned to breed from them, but the fact that Duisburg wish to replace their old non-breeding male 'Catou' for a younger, more virile model indicates they plan to do so.
grantsmb;
thanks for the info on G-Anne and Julia. I'm pretty sure Julia has a plate in that bad leg. (she developed a limp and was knocked down a couple of years ago and some orthapaedic specialists had a look. All went well and there wasn't a reason found for the limp.)
By the way Rigo was introduced to 'the girls' last Wednesday and I saw them all together today. They're all doing very well. There doesn't seem to be a problem with Betsy (too old to care?) or Yushka "as long as I heaps of food in front of me I'm OK". The gorilla watches have been going well.
His biggest challenge might be little Jumatano who follows him around (with her sack on her back). I saw him chase her away once.
All is going well so far.
thanks for the info on G-Anne and Julia. I'm pretty sure Julia has a plate in that bad leg. (she developed a limp and was knocked down a couple of years ago and some orthapaedic specialists had a look. All went well and there wasn't a reason found for the limp.)
By the way Rigo was introduced to 'the girls' last Wednesday and I saw them all together today. They're all doing very well. There doesn't seem to be a problem with Betsy (too old to care?) or Yushka "as long as I heaps of food in front of me I'm OK". The gorilla watches have been going well.
His biggest challenge might be little Jumatano who follows him around (with her sack on her back). I saw him chase her away once.
All is going well so far.
HOORAY!!!!
That's really great news. If Jumatano follows him round that means she's already 'hooked' onto him as the silverback- if Rigo becomes interested when she has an oestrus there won't be a problem here....
(Personally) I think Jumatano is too young. She just turned 7. I'm not aware of her being on any implants. She's the funniest little thing. If she can carry something on her back - she will.
One interesting thing I noticed today was that they had a bit of 'spat' and the girls were all chasing Rigo. (It was always funny when they did it to Motaba.) But Rigo, in his dignified way, stood his ground. It all ended as quickly as it started and it was back to chewing browse in the sun.
Everything seems to be going well so far. Lots of people recognised Rigo as soon as they saw him.
One interesting thing I noticed today was that they had a bit of 'spat' and the girls were all chasing Rigo. (It was always funny when they did it to Motaba.) But Rigo, in his dignified way, stood his ground. It all ended as quickly as it started and it was back to chewing browse in the sun.
Everything seems to be going well so far. Lots of people recognised Rigo as soon as they saw him.
Yes, I'm not suggesting Jumatano should breed yet, but if she's not on contraceptives, she may do so soon after she starts to cycle(could be cycling already?). Her interest indicates she'll actively solicite Rigo when that happens, but whether he responds is anybody's guess. I'm expecting G.Anne and Julia may be less enthusiastic though.
Because Rigo's so much older now, I'd expect his behaviour to be much calmer than in the distant past.. And if it wasn't there are now several females in the group to provide a united front and make him back down. But from your description it sounds pretty relaxed to me. Its great...
One question- do you know if Wednesday was his very first introduction to the group,, or have there been gradual ones going on since the two males were swapped over?
Because Rigo's so much older now, I'd expect his behaviour to be much calmer than in the distant past.. And if it wasn't there are now several females in the group to provide a united front and make him back down. But from your description it sounds pretty relaxed to me. Its great...
One question- do you know if Wednesday was his very first introduction to the group,, or have there been gradual ones going on since the two males were swapped over?
It's definitely a good sign. With the three young ones growing up together she would have observed the adult females carrying the boys around. Especially poor Betsy who always seemed to have one of the boys climbing on her back. (When she got fed up she would whack them with a sack....it didn't deter them though....they thought it was new game.) I think August is when she turns 50.
I'm pretty sure last week was the first time Rigo spent time in the display area with all the girls. I was under the impression that the intros would be done more slowly (i.e introduce one female at a time).
I understand they have had visual contact in the night dens for several months which went without any drama. Yuska and Betsy know him already and they're the senior girls of the group.....perhaps it was assumed that if they don't make a scene the others will just follow.
So far, so good. The gorilla watch will continue for a while.
I'm pretty sure last week was the first time Rigo spent time in the display area with all the girls. I was under the impression that the intros would be done more slowly (i.e introduce one female at a time).
I understand they have had visual contact in the night dens for several months which went without any drama. Yuska and Betsy know him already and they're the senior girls of the group.....perhaps it was assumed that if they don't make a scene the others will just follow.
So far, so good. The gorilla watch will continue for a while.
Betsi was wildcaught so her birthdate can only be an estimate- thought to be 1957 in her case, so yes, 50 this year. Amazing.
I imagine they may have been putting Rigo in with the different females in the indoor areas and its only now that he's with whole group, I don't know.... Timewise it hasn't taken very long though, just a few months.
Jumatano could well prove good mother if she's allowed to breed. Its just occurred to me Bambuti/Bahasha is so far the only one to be mother-raised there.
Correct. Bambuti was the only mother raised gorilla. Prior to Bambuti, Betsy had to be 'shown' how to feed Buzandi/Butouri and when she had Bambuti it was all under control. (I've heard there was a member of staff who was breast feeding her own infant at the time and would show Betsy how it's done....I can have this checked.....it's a great story.)
Yakini & Mzuri/Ya Kwanza both have the same mother (Yushka) and she handled both of them the same way (leaving it to the keepers until they were a bit older and not so dependent on her). Nobody knows if she was unsure when they were infants or whether she was a 'liberated gorilla' and left them in 'day care'....lol. Once they were a bit bigger (about 2) she was fine.
Julia had Jumatano and put her down after 1-2 weeks after which Jumatano was hand reared and reintroduced when she was two. They both had off display access to one another but Jumatano wasn't put in with the rest of the group until it was certain Julia would cope. She did. The two were inseparable....until Yakini and Ganyeka came along and broke up the party!
Little Ganyeka was rejected by G-Anne from day one. She's had nothing to do with him since the start. Ganyeka had three foster mums (Betsy, Yuska and Julia) and he was never without a piggy back if he needed one. Ganyeka also has a lot of allergy/dietary problems. (He was allergic to milk....then he was allergic to soy....). I sometimes wonder if G-Anne instinctively knew this which is why she rejected him.....but then the other females would have picked this up as well.
Don't feel sorry for Ganyeka.....he is the 'golden child' and is clearly favoured by the father of all three, Motaba.
Yakini & Mzuri/Ya Kwanza both have the same mother (Yushka) and she handled both of them the same way (leaving it to the keepers until they were a bit older and not so dependent on her). Nobody knows if she was unsure when they were infants or whether she was a 'liberated gorilla' and left them in 'day care'....lol. Once they were a bit bigger (about 2) she was fine.
Julia had Jumatano and put her down after 1-2 weeks after which Jumatano was hand reared and reintroduced when she was two. They both had off display access to one another but Jumatano wasn't put in with the rest of the group until it was certain Julia would cope. She did. The two were inseparable....until Yakini and Ganyeka came along and broke up the party!
Little Ganyeka was rejected by G-Anne from day one. She's had nothing to do with him since the start. Ganyeka had three foster mums (Betsy, Yuska and Julia) and he was never without a piggy back if he needed one. Ganyeka also has a lot of allergy/dietary problems. (He was allergic to milk....then he was allergic to soy....). I sometimes wonder if G-Anne instinctively knew this which is why she rejected him.....but then the other females would have picked this up as well.
Don't feel sorry for Ganyeka.....he is the 'golden child' and is clearly favoured by the father of all three, Motaba.
That's really interestng information about the mothering abilities of the Melbourne females. I'd deduce from it that both Yuska and Julia would become capable mothers if they had given birth more often. There are plenty of cases of females rejecting one, or even two offspring but then rearing their later ones, though of course, some never get the hang of it, or simply aren't interested.
Maybe G.Anne is of the non-maternal sort- she may never show any interest. Incidentally, young Ganyeki is as genetically valuable as his halfsister Jumatano. Both are (so far) the only offspring of their respective mothers. Despite G.Anne having been born in a zoo(oklahoma) she has no siblings alive anywhere in other zoos so is equivalent genetically to Julia.
You probably know how G.Anne came to lose her hand? They had to amputate it at Jersey shortly before she came to Australia. A trial dose of the drug which was going to be used to sedate her on the journey caused an adverse reaction- I don't know the detail but that was the cause. I wouldn't think this handicap has any bearing on her mothering abilities though- if she was interested she could manage okay- I hardly noticed her disability when I saw her.
Maybe G.Anne is of the non-maternal sort- she may never show any interest. Incidentally, young Ganyeki is as genetically valuable as his halfsister Jumatano. Both are (so far) the only offspring of their respective mothers. Despite G.Anne having been born in a zoo(oklahoma) she has no siblings alive anywhere in other zoos so is equivalent genetically to Julia.
You probably know how G.Anne came to lose her hand? They had to amputate it at Jersey shortly before she came to Australia. A trial dose of the drug which was going to be used to sedate her on the journey caused an adverse reaction- I don't know the detail but that was the cause. I wouldn't think this handicap has any bearing on her mothering abilities though- if she was interested she could manage okay- I hardly noticed her disability when I saw her.
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