dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
anything new so far?
Taronga Zoo Thong Dee Is Pregnant
- Thread starter torie
- Start date
thorney_devil
Well-Known Member
Dont know if everyone has read all the info from Taronga Zoo Elephant page but I will add it to this forum for all to read, was interesting and gives everyone a bit of insight to the plans for the breeding programme:
1. When is the first pregnant elephant due to give birth?
We are eagerly anticipating the birth of the first Asian Elephant in Australia as part of the conservation & breeding program for this species.
There are currently three of the four females pregnant at Taronga Zoo. The first expectant female is Thong Dee and she's due to give birth any day now during June or July - elephant pregnancies last anywhere from 20 to 22 months.
2. Are there any special preparations you've had to make?
We have put in place incredibly detailed and extensive plans to support Thong Dee for this birth, and for the other pregnant females. These have included dietary and fitness programs, preparing of specialised veterinary equipment, barn fit out for the arrival of a young calf and a world renowned expert in elephant reproduction is ready to come to Australia to assist at the first signs of Thong Dee going into labour.
Taronga's elephant manager has over 30 years experience with elephants and assisted in many births. He is integrated into the social structure of the elephant herd and will be with Thong Dee to participate as an "auntie" during the birth.
3. What are the chances of success?
It is very important for people to realise that all our pregnant females will be first time mothers. Despite every precaution and all preparations, statistically there is around a 40 - 50% mortality rate with first-time elephant pregnancies. The zoo is actively planning for success, but must acknowledge the possibility of other outcomes during the birth of any of the elephant calves.
4. Where will the elephants be during the birth?
Many elephant births occur overnight. Thong Dee will be in her heated barn along with the other female elephants. It is very important that all the elephants are close to Thong Dee during the birth process to learn and gain experience from these events.
Keepers that are closely bonded with Thong Dee will be with her throughout the birth and experienced vets will also be on site.
5. How long will it take the elephant to give birth?
Elephant labour can vary from one hour to a few days. A team of Thong Dee's keepers and specialist vets will be with her throughout the entire process and to assist her and help out if necessary.
6 .Does the mother give birth lying down?
No, elephants give birth standing up, but they sometimes squat.
7. How big is an elephant calf?
Asian Elephant calves can weigh between 90kg - 110 kg at birth.
8. How much does it eat?
The calf suckles milk from its mother, generally taking around 12 litres each day.
9. How long will it nurse for?
Baby elephants are usually dependent on mother's milk for up to three years, although they can be weaned at two years of age. By the time a calf is nine months old, 40 per cent of its diet is vegetation. The calf learns how and what to eat by watching the older elephants.
10. Can a calf use its trunk?
It takes time for a calf to acquire trunk coordination. At first it may only be able to wave it around in the air, suck on it or trip over it. However within a week the calf has usually gained enough control to try picking up and carrying small objects and food.
11. When can visitors see the calf?
After it's born, as long as everything goes OK, the mother and calf will be spending a lot of time in the heated barn to bond and build their relationship. So you won't be able to see anything for a while.
While we realise this birth is an exciting event we hope our visitors will understand that the health of Thong Dee and her calf is our paramount priority.
We'll make sure public announcements are made to let people know when the calf will be outside and can be seen. Large plasma screens are being installed around the elephant exhibit so visitors will be able to see the calf on these screens via CCTV cameras.
12. How many elephants are pregnant?
Other than Thong Dee who is due to give birth any day now Taronga Zoo also has another two pregnant elephants - the next calf is due in early 2010 and the other in late 2010.
13. How did the female elephants get pregnant?
Our male elephant Gung is father to two calves to our female elephants - Thong Dee and Pak Boon. Our female matriarch - Porntip became pregnant through artificial insemination. This was performed by a world renowned team of elephant reproduction specialists from the Berlin Institute of Zoo Biology and Wildlife Research. This artificial insemination technique is vital to the genetic diversity and health of the future elephant herd to ensure that the calves are not all related.
14. Were the elephants old enough to breed?
Thong Dee, along with all the other elephants was given a reproductive assessment prior to taking part in the breeding program at the Zoo. These assessments were undertaken by Dr Thomas Hildebrandt a world-renowned specialist in elephant reproduction from the Berlin Institute of Zoo Biology and Wildlife Research. All the elephants were found to be reproductively mature and suitable for participation in the breeding program. Thong Dee was recommended for breeding straight away and with Gung's help became pregnant several months after this recommendation.
15. Will there be room at the Zoo for the elephants and their calves?
The elephant barn and paddocks were designed using international standards and can accommodate four elephant cows and four calves, but we won't have that many for some years to come. As part of the program female calves will stay with their mothers for life just as they would naturally. Male calves will move from the main herd as they mature. This movement of young males is also part of the normal natural lifecycle and space will be provided for them at other Zoo's who will participate in the conservation program.
16. What is the point of the breeding program?
These pregnancies, if successful will be the starting point for a self sustaining Asian Elephant population in Australia, one of the main goals of the breeding and conservation program.
The other goals are to raise awareness of issues affecting the survival of Asian Elephants and to raise funds for conservation programs for elephants throughout Asia.
1. When is the first pregnant elephant due to give birth?
We are eagerly anticipating the birth of the first Asian Elephant in Australia as part of the conservation & breeding program for this species.
There are currently three of the four females pregnant at Taronga Zoo. The first expectant female is Thong Dee and she's due to give birth any day now during June or July - elephant pregnancies last anywhere from 20 to 22 months.
2. Are there any special preparations you've had to make?
We have put in place incredibly detailed and extensive plans to support Thong Dee for this birth, and for the other pregnant females. These have included dietary and fitness programs, preparing of specialised veterinary equipment, barn fit out for the arrival of a young calf and a world renowned expert in elephant reproduction is ready to come to Australia to assist at the first signs of Thong Dee going into labour.
Taronga's elephant manager has over 30 years experience with elephants and assisted in many births. He is integrated into the social structure of the elephant herd and will be with Thong Dee to participate as an "auntie" during the birth.
3. What are the chances of success?
It is very important for people to realise that all our pregnant females will be first time mothers. Despite every precaution and all preparations, statistically there is around a 40 - 50% mortality rate with first-time elephant pregnancies. The zoo is actively planning for success, but must acknowledge the possibility of other outcomes during the birth of any of the elephant calves.
4. Where will the elephants be during the birth?
Many elephant births occur overnight. Thong Dee will be in her heated barn along with the other female elephants. It is very important that all the elephants are close to Thong Dee during the birth process to learn and gain experience from these events.
Keepers that are closely bonded with Thong Dee will be with her throughout the birth and experienced vets will also be on site.
5. How long will it take the elephant to give birth?
Elephant labour can vary from one hour to a few days. A team of Thong Dee's keepers and specialist vets will be with her throughout the entire process and to assist her and help out if necessary.
6 .Does the mother give birth lying down?
No, elephants give birth standing up, but they sometimes squat.
7. How big is an elephant calf?
Asian Elephant calves can weigh between 90kg - 110 kg at birth.
8. How much does it eat?
The calf suckles milk from its mother, generally taking around 12 litres each day.
9. How long will it nurse for?
Baby elephants are usually dependent on mother's milk for up to three years, although they can be weaned at two years of age. By the time a calf is nine months old, 40 per cent of its diet is vegetation. The calf learns how and what to eat by watching the older elephants.
10. Can a calf use its trunk?
It takes time for a calf to acquire trunk coordination. At first it may only be able to wave it around in the air, suck on it or trip over it. However within a week the calf has usually gained enough control to try picking up and carrying small objects and food.
11. When can visitors see the calf?
After it's born, as long as everything goes OK, the mother and calf will be spending a lot of time in the heated barn to bond and build their relationship. So you won't be able to see anything for a while.
While we realise this birth is an exciting event we hope our visitors will understand that the health of Thong Dee and her calf is our paramount priority.
We'll make sure public announcements are made to let people know when the calf will be outside and can be seen. Large plasma screens are being installed around the elephant exhibit so visitors will be able to see the calf on these screens via CCTV cameras.
12. How many elephants are pregnant?
Other than Thong Dee who is due to give birth any day now Taronga Zoo also has another two pregnant elephants - the next calf is due in early 2010 and the other in late 2010.
13. How did the female elephants get pregnant?
Our male elephant Gung is father to two calves to our female elephants - Thong Dee and Pak Boon. Our female matriarch - Porntip became pregnant through artificial insemination. This was performed by a world renowned team of elephant reproduction specialists from the Berlin Institute of Zoo Biology and Wildlife Research. This artificial insemination technique is vital to the genetic diversity and health of the future elephant herd to ensure that the calves are not all related.
14. Were the elephants old enough to breed?
Thong Dee, along with all the other elephants was given a reproductive assessment prior to taking part in the breeding program at the Zoo. These assessments were undertaken by Dr Thomas Hildebrandt a world-renowned specialist in elephant reproduction from the Berlin Institute of Zoo Biology and Wildlife Research. All the elephants were found to be reproductively mature and suitable for participation in the breeding program. Thong Dee was recommended for breeding straight away and with Gung's help became pregnant several months after this recommendation.
15. Will there be room at the Zoo for the elephants and their calves?
The elephant barn and paddocks were designed using international standards and can accommodate four elephant cows and four calves, but we won't have that many for some years to come. As part of the program female calves will stay with their mothers for life just as they would naturally. Male calves will move from the main herd as they mature. This movement of young males is also part of the normal natural lifecycle and space will be provided for them at other Zoo's who will participate in the conservation program.
16. What is the point of the breeding program?
These pregnancies, if successful will be the starting point for a self sustaining Asian Elephant population in Australia, one of the main goals of the breeding and conservation program.
The other goals are to raise awareness of issues affecting the survival of Asian Elephants and to raise funds for conservation programs for elephants throughout Asia.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
thanks, I wish all the best and more for Tong Dee's pregnancy. If her birth is successful then most likely the others will be too. Then again every ele is different.
Pertinax,
I know what you are trying to say here. However, (natural) elephant births in the wild or even in captivity in range states is not just a normal occurrence.
A common mistake: too much emphasis is being put numbers as opposed to real statistics. In the wild numbers of elephants are declining. The major portion of wild Asian elephants is India (15,000 - 20,000 individuals), and even this population is declining. Whereas in India they are breeding, this does not infer that they are self-sustaining. Simply, the off-take (very graphically speaking as it involves poaching, shooting, electrocution, snaring, road kills et cetera). For the captive stocks in India - I am talking both zoos and private individuals - there are several welfare aspects that have been neglected over the years. For Indian zoos, many current zoo exhibits and management techniques are sub standard and not conducive to breeding elephants. Very few Indian zoos even breed the Indian Asian elephants. For private individuals - the mahouts on the streets - the situation is even worse, with elephant malpractice and exploitation linked to extreme poverty being a major drain on elephant numbers. Even in the latter 2 categories the number of Asian elephants is DECLINING rapidly. Now, if you transpose this perspective on the SE-Asian wild and captive populations the situation is even worse both in the numbers game and the actual population trends game (for a similar 3 category definition by wild, zoo and private individual).
For the source populations of the Asian elephants in Australia, principally Thailand and erstwhile Malaysia, only 2 establishments in Thailand have continuous success with breeding elephants (both incidentally sanctuaries, however out of a number of in the 30-50 range), whereas in Malaysia ... I currently know of no sanctuaries, yet 2 zoos breeding Malaysian elephants (incidentally both pure-breds, 1 mainland Indo-Malayan and 1 Borneo).
So, basically it is mad, bad and dangerous ... so you know!
I know what you are trying to say here. However, (natural) elephant births in the wild or even in captivity in range states is not just a normal occurrence.When I was in Kaziranga, Assam( home of the rhinos!!) three of the park riding elephants had given birth within a few days of each other. The mothers were let off 'tourist duty' but apart from that there was no special treatment although the calves were popular with the tourists of course.
My guess is these cows all calved without any fuss or people present except for maybe their mahouts etc but then despite being domestic they do still live more like their wild counterparts than zoo eles do.
I'm just saying; compare that with all the fanfare accompanying Taronga's very first birth- of course I can understand its a big event for them and hope it goes okay.
phoenix,
The point I wanted to make is that there is no exponential growth in situ elephant numbers, rather a steep decline. A rather worrying trend.
Whereas in some parts elephants may be giving birth with not much fanfare in some localities (as evidenced by the Kaziranga Forest Reserve elephants), the general trend is of fewer births in situ and declining elephant populations.
This should be a serious concern to all of us and we should therefore celebrate all elephant births. That it is not celebrated as such is indicative of some lack of awareness as to the urgency of elephant survival in situ. Wild elephants, even in India, are far from secure. In several National Parks elephant habitat has been cut in half by highways or railway lines causing more than frequent deaths in migrating elephants.
An example is Tamil Nadu/Kerala where recently authorities have decided to plan for a thorough road through the most important elephant around in India. And yet, elephants are supposedly protected by law ...
Well I rest my case here on in situ matters.
Getting back to elephant births in captivity: I do feel there is a genuine need to celebrate, but I agree that sometimes the media coverage is quite over-bearing. Let us just adopt a wait and see approach and take every new elephant birth in with gratitude, if and when it comes *****!
this is more to do with a lack of urgency of interest than
The point I wanted to make is that there is no exponential growth in situ elephant numbers, rather a steep decline. A rather worrying trend.
Whereas in some parts elephants may be giving birth with not much fanfare in some localities (as evidenced by the Kaziranga Forest Reserve elephants), the general trend is of fewer births in situ and declining elephant populations.
This should be a serious concern to all of us and we should therefore celebrate all elephant births. That it is not celebrated as such is indicative of some lack of awareness as to the urgency of elephant survival in situ. Wild elephants, even in India, are far from secure. In several National Parks elephant habitat has been cut in half by highways or railway lines causing more than frequent deaths in migrating elephants.
An example is Tamil Nadu/Kerala where recently authorities have decided to plan for a thorough road through the most important elephant around in India. And yet, elephants are supposedly protected by law ...
Well I rest my case here on in situ matters.
Getting back to elephant births in captivity: I do feel there is a genuine need to celebrate, but I agree that sometimes the media coverage is quite over-bearing. Let us just adopt a wait and see approach and take every new elephant birth in with gratitude, if and when it comes *****!
this is more to do with a lack of urgency of interest than
its getting closer...around 48 hours to go according to hormone samples taken from thong dee.
excellent publicity for the zoo with a full front page spread, page 3 story and editorial piece in todays telegraph. fingers crossed for the calf's safe delivery-i would anticipate if all goes to plan that taronga could face its biggest year ever in terms of visitor numbers (anything elephant related is good for zoos here, the 2006 import saw zoo friend membership peak and MZ's TOTE exhibit, when it opened gave MZ its busiest year too.might help the zoos re-coup some of their costs).
excellent publicity for the zoo with a full front page spread, page 3 story and editorial piece in todays telegraph. fingers crossed for the calf's safe delivery-i would anticipate if all goes to plan that taronga could face its biggest year ever in terms of visitor numbers (anything elephant related is good for zoos here, the 2006 import saw zoo friend membership peak and MZ's TOTE exhibit, when it opened gave MZ its busiest year too.might help the zoos re-coup some of their costs).
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
oh my ganesha, I'm so pysched.
torie
Well-Known Member
Dont get too excited yet the article only says that they will be able to detect her going into labor 48 hours ahead not that it is 48 hours away from now!
quote from the telly
The zoo is preparing for any scenario once the daily blood tests monitoring her hormone changes show Thong Dee is about 48 hours away from giving birth.
What Taronga Zoo needs for Thong Dee baby delivery | The Daily Telegraph
As far as I know, it`s impossible to determine the calves sex from scans. There is a method to analyse certain hormone levels of the mother at a certain time of the pregnancy and that indicates the gender of the calf with a likelyhood of 80%. Which is not that much more then guessing (50%). And it`s useless knowledge, so I don`t understand how zoos can spend any money on this.
It has been mentioned on zoochat before that 90% of AI elephants are Male! Or was it 80% an incredibly high number. It may also suggest the irresponsibly of using AI on elephants.
As obviously the long term care of males is a huge concern.
What zoo would want to keep a bachelor group instead of a breeding family group! If given the choice.
As obviously the long term care of males is a huge concern.
What zoo would want to keep a bachelor group instead of a breeding family group! If given the choice.