ZSL London Zoo The Trouble with the Casson Pavillion...

Zambar

Zambar

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Whenever I visit this area of the zoo nowadays, it just feels so, well, depressing. It's a perfect reminder of why you should put animals before architecture; back in the day, I remember this house and the outside areas bustling with people, all watching and talking about the amazing elephants and rhinos before them, elephant bathtime especially drawing quite possibly the largest crowds you could get in the zoo. And whilst I never saw them, I imagine the sea lions opposite drew just as estactic crowds.
Of course, the realisation soon came that these enclosures were no longer suitable, and the elephants Dilberta, Layang Layang and Mya left for Whipsnade, the black rhinos Jos and Rosie going soon after (I remember visiting about a week or two after the elephants left and Jos was still there). Nowadays, the area has become very desolate. Inside, it is quiet and never as busy as it was. This impressive building (yes, I think it is) doesn't seem quite right now without such impressive animals: The camels and bearded pigs just don't fit the atmosphere the building seeks to make with the atmosphere, lending it's name to what I use now to term a zoo exhibit that doesn't (in the aesthistic sense) fit the inhabitants, the 'Casson Effect'. Likewise, outside is quite bleak, with the camels and hippos quite a quiet display.

I've seen several ideas here as to how it could work better: Conversion of part of it into a great ape exhibit, a similar sized but more interesting display species to a camel, such as tapir, hippo, gaur or even black rhino, and even a museum of the zoo's history, with model elephants to fill the space of a large presence this house was designed for. But then again, we should all blame Hugh Casson for not thinking out the animal's needs first. :rolleyes:
 
I totally agree. The pavilion, though a historical monument, is now quite gloomy and almost a feeble shadow of it's former self. I too remember watching the elephants and rhinos, but now to enter this grand space and find a single bearded pig lying down doesn't do it justice. Tapirs, or even rhinos again (following modifications) would be a nice touch.
 
I love the idea of a great ape exhibit Marwell-Dalek!
I would imagine it would be very difficult to refurbish but it could even be used for Orangutans the enclosures netted on the outside with glass viewing and plenty of ropes and high trees the indoor sections could be used aswell with plenty of high ropes and platforms,It could work very well if done properly.
It would be very difficult and exepnsive to do that though.
I think a London Zoo History display would be the most feasable idea it is such a historic zoo, It should be represented here.
But i think it makes good use of the Camels and bearded pigs for now :), But perhaps Tapirs would be a nice touch aswell.
 
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I think it could house Rhinos too, it would have to use both halves of the house but it could be done. They'd be a much better exhibit and actually do the building justice.
 
I think the interior space might make a wonderful batcave. It would need careful lighting and the bats would need to be trained to feed and sleep in certain places (for catching and general management). Can you imagine Livingstone's flying foxes using that tall space? My flippant alternative when we discussed this before was a walk-through flying snake aviary :D
On the outside, I think the pigs are fine - but the camels would have to go. Ideally I'd plant some trees and keep a bachelor herd of gaur, to match a big breeding herd at Whipsnade, but I'd settle for banteng.
The best solution of all would be to persuade English Heritage that it is a poor piece of architecture - a minor work by an over-rated architect. Then they can de-list it and the guys with the wrecking balls can move in . . . .

Alan
 
I have received my copy of the buildings of London zoo today and after thumbing through it, at the end is a list of all structures at the zoo, with a listing of their respective grade listing, and the Casson elephant and rhino pavillion has no listing against be it grade I or II.

I realise this book was first published in 1993, has the house been graded since?, or can the ZSL actually bulldoze this white elephant from the face of Regents park?
 
I think with some major renovations this building could be restored to something like its former standing within the Zoo. The outdoor space(even if both sides were joined), really is not big enough for Rhinos, so I would suggest turning it into a Rainforest House- either Asian or African/Asian(two exhibits split by the two sides of the House) Key species for Asia could be Orangutan, existing Bearded Pigs, Malayan Tapir, Gibbons or existing Francois Langurs. African species- Bonobos, Okapi, Mangabey or Colobus, existing Pygmy Hippos. Some relevant birds and reptiles for each region(as in ROTRA at Chester) I am not suggesting mixed exhibits unless they're appropriate but there is plenty of scope for doing good enclosures in this spacious and 'vaulted' building.

I don't normally dream up 'virtual' exhibits but in this case I do feel the current displays of Pigs & Camels are as dull as ditchwater.
 
Very good idea there. I presume that means one half of the current pig paddock for the beardies or tapirs (I don't think you could fit both in) and the other half orangs and gibbons/langurs, and the current camel split it in three for hippos, bonobos/monkeys and okapis. Then you could have free-flying birds and bats inside, or is it too low?
 
Marwell Dalek;24 Then you could have free-flying birds and bats inside said:
This is a very high building inside and much of the public area is wasted space, so it would lend itself to walkthrough areas leading to the main large species displays which would be basically the old elephant and rhino indoor areas.
These would make spacious exhibits for almost anything smaller than eles or rhinos, e.g. Bonobos or Orangutans/Tapirs etc. I'm not sure how they could split the outsides so effectively, a mixture of cage enclosures and small 'paddocks' perhaps. it might turn out that the interior would be the strongest area.
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I don't think the space is that big. The bearded pig outdoor area is relatively small and its hard to think at one point a male and female black rhino were separated into two sections of this enclosure (Rosie never accepted Jos). You could never have tapir in one half and then great apes in the other. If you had pigs in one half, you are effectively halving their current space. That said, I don't really understand the point of this species at London, haven't the males all been castrated anyway?

I'm not really in favour of primates getting adapted old buildings, I think bonobo or orang utan would benefit from purpose-built indoor facilities rather than the interior of the Casson, and I'm not convinced that there is sufficient light for decent foliage to make a dent on the concrete aesthetic of the building. Plus the centre is very dark and would have to rely on branch cuttings which would go brown or fake plants.

I say work with the building, embrace it through its difficult years and trust that as it gets older, it will be veiwed differently. I would suggest the sound of sparrows, and the slow movements of large ungulates browsing in the tall grottoes communicates something that a makeshift tropical hall won't. To many it will communicate artificiality; feeding traditional expectations of zoo space. But I see nothing wrong with Gaur, Okapi, Bongo, etc provided the outdoor enclosures expand out over the adjacent lawns into sizeable modern paddocks. As with many of London' Zoo's enclosures, the exhibit space is theatrical in presentation, and I would argue only works with larger, dramatic-looking species.

ZSL already have a fantastic rainforest space, which the Casson won't beat. As for the bat suggestion, leaders in fruit bat exhibits are now giving them large, outdoor flights, to the extent that some indoor bat walk throughs are already looking dated.

I may be wrong, as langurs and gibbons might work and have impressive outdoor enclosures one day. But large primates destroy plants in indoor exhibits, so you'll never hide the concrete.

I think the sudden shrinkage of the pygmy hippo exhibit to just the winter area is really unfortunate. Its apparent that the old Stork and Ostrich house will never have an indoor pool - some landscaping and a raised boardwalk is surely all ZSL need to connect the very functional Casson area for this species to the more-than-reasonable summer paddock and lake.
 
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johnstoni,

To put a myth out of the forum: black rhino Josie has social issues and hence whether it was a successful black rhino exhibit or not is not relevant here. When bull Jos was finally loaned out to PL he did go on to become a successful breeder (shame he died soonish after as his genes would have been well needed). I do still think it was as for quite a number of years ZLS/Regent's Park did breed and rear black rhino calves here. :eek:

As for design plans/remodelling: I have put forward many many months previously the suggestions - as Pertinax has recently given too - to renovate the whole hall and give it an Asian cum African tropical rainforest theme and group all Asian/African rainforest species, including those endangered ones elsewhere in Regent's Park in and around this exhibit. It really would make a magnificent rainforest hall ...!!!! :cool:
 
If you look at London Zoos record for breeding black rhino, it stems from one compatible pair, as with Bristol, but the young did not go on to survive for long, and the last calf, Rosie, had to be hand-reared.

Are you suggesting the exhibit was suitable for Black Rhino?

In the post you responded to, I wasn't so much debating whether London zoo were successful with this species, rather that I can't believe they chose to keep an incompatible pair there for so long, effectively halving for each animal what little enclosure space there was.
 
I quite like the idea of keeping the Camels and Pigs there and creatring it as a mini museum halving one of the Camel Stables and putting some Moddle Elephants and same with the pigs and rhinos. Also the Zoo could put Human Manikins pretending walk around the house in amazement to show what people used to wear when the building was in it's day. They could have a DVD set-up as there's loads of photage of Lonon Zoo years ago to use. Ovbiously children will soon get bored of this so they'll go off to see the Camels/Pigs as when i was a kid i really wasn't bothered what condition the animal was in, all i was bothered about was the Animal itself, until i reached 7. A few notice-boards with some facts about the old zoo running through the middle of the pavillion, with info on the famous "Elephant-Bath time", and other pictures and info on the Zoo's History as a form of Time-line.
ChesterGemsbok
;)
 
I've always thought that the interior of the structure would lend itself to a cave display, as Gentle Lemur has said. I don't know what cave dwelling species could be displayed for certain- certainly a couple of bat species, cave spiders and crickets, snakes, blind mexican cave fish, olm and other reptiles etc. It would mean that a very big building would be given over to some fairly unimpressive species but you could correct for that by using the outside enclosures for 'cave-dwelling' or highland species like snow leopards or ibex. For such outdoor exhibits loose boulders could be used to build height to the enclosure, which probably wouldn't infringe on any restrictions of its listed status.
 
johnstoni said:
If you look at London Zoos record for breeding black rhino, it stems from one compatible pair, as with Bristol, but the young did not go on to survive for long
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The black rhinos born at London Zoo were not all from one compatible pair.

Although ‘June’ was the mother of all the black rhino calves born in the Casson Pavilion, the various calves were fathered by three different males:- “Paul”, “Bwana Mkubwa” (also known as “Fred”) and “Jasper”.

Regarding your comment that the young did not survive for long; sadly, some didn’t, but aren’t ‘Esther’ and ‘Rosie’ still alive at Chester?
 
Tim May said:
Regarding your comment that the young did not survive for long; sadly, some didn’t, but aren’t ‘Esther’ and ‘Rosie’ still alive at Chester?
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A total of ten or eleven calves were born to the Black Rhinos at ZSl and
Whipsnade, approximately half these births at each location. Only three survived to full maturity- Esther, Parky, and Rosie, while another two, Kes & Katie, died at Marwell when fullgrown. Esther is long dead but her daughter Manyara(?) is still at Chester, as is 'problem animal' Rosie- the last rhino born at ZSL.

To my knowledge 'Jasper did not father any calves, either at ZSL or at PL where he was later sent.
 
Pertinax said:
To my knowledge 'Jasper did not father any calves, either at ZSL or at PL where he was later sent.
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“The Rhinoceros in Captivity” (L. C. Rookmaaker, 1998) states that ‘Jasper’ was the father of ‘Rosie’.

Thanks for the information about "Esther".
 
Well it sounds like they were more successful than I realised.

I think the animals that lived at Marwell died for reasons unconnected to where they were born.

I would still maintain that urban zoo environments tend to be successful only if they have one or two particularly prolific rhinos. There isn't really any room for error with non-breeders or incompatible pairs.
 
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