Chester Zoo Is Elephant 'Birma' pregnant?
- Thread starter Pertinax
- Start date
Writhedhornbill
Well-Known Member
I was told by a girl who had been on the elephant section, that upali had mated Birma three time. Someone will have to ask at Chester about the finilised deatails eg. Due dates etc.
Birma is now fully intergrated with the herd.
Birma is now fully intergrated with the herd.
QUOTE=Writhedhornbill;18114] Someone will have to ask at Chester about the finilised deatails eg. Due dates etc.
Birma is now fully intergrated with the herd.[/QUOTE]
That's a job for Bongorob as he's visiting next week. This is really good news as it wasn't so long ago she was living alone at Mauberge Zoo in France and now here she is living in a group and pregnant as well. A safe delivery for a female as old as she is(24?) at first breeding is of course a risk- we will have to wait and see, but its very good that she is fertile anyway, and that 'Upali' has proved himself again.
Now I just wish Chester could repeat this and do something about that single Asian female at the Welsh Monastery where this week there was all the fuss about that sacred bull being taken away for slaughter. In all the news 'hype', the poor elephant was never mentioned.
Birma is now fully intergrated with the herd.[/QUOTE]
That's a job for Bongorob as he's visiting next week. This is really good news as it wasn't so long ago she was living alone at Mauberge Zoo in France and now here she is living in a group and pregnant as well. A safe delivery for a female as old as she is(24?) at first breeding is of course a risk- we will have to wait and see, but its very good that she is fertile anyway, and that 'Upali' has proved himself again.
Now I just wish Chester could repeat this and do something about that single Asian female at the Welsh Monastery where this week there was all the fuss about that sacred bull being taken away for slaughter. In all the news 'hype', the poor elephant was never mentioned.
Is Bovine TB transferable to elephants? If so, do you know whether she has been tested for it? I would really like to see that animal sent to the elephant sanctuary in Tennessee....
I know many people on this forum are for captive breeding of Asian elephants, but badly socialised cows are always a greater risk to any calves they produce, and this animal, Valli, has been solitary since she arrived at the monastery as a baby. I think it is inevitable that the captive herd will reduce in number as adults imported in the late 60s and 70s (who were past breeding age by the time real efforts began) start to die in greater numbers, but the social benefit of a multi-generational herd is without question.
I know many people on this forum are for captive breeding of Asian elephants, but badly socialised cows are always a greater risk to any calves they produce, and this animal, Valli, has been solitary since she arrived at the monastery as a baby. I think it is inevitable that the captive herd will reduce in number as adults imported in the late 60s and 70s (who were past breeding age by the time real efforts began) start to die in greater numbers, but the social benefit of a multi-generational herd is without question.
I think the Born Free Foundation made some noise about her not long ago, but possibly because she is in good physical health, and cared for devotedly by the people at the monastery, there is little anyone can do as beyond ill health and neglect, it is hard to build public pressure based on an understanding of the social needs of this species. Bristol zoo were able to keep their last Asian elephant on her own for a long time, with the justification that she 'didn't get on with other elephants', meaning only in the context of single, badly socialised elephant cows being brought into her relatively small enclosure from time to time and not mixing well with her. I imagine this argument could be used with the elephant in Wales, given that there must be strong bonds evident between her and her keepers. We still seem to be in a situation where an elephant must experience some kind of physical malaise before it is moved to a more suitable environment (eg the African elephant cow about to leave Alaska). Valli, in Wales, is in her early twenties, with no foot or joint problems yet and it is possible the recent TB outbreak will provide further justification for her to stay where she is, rather than mix with other elephants in the european captive herd. That's why she needs to go to Tennessee.
cria cuervos
New Member
I would hold your horses on the pregnant thing. Just because she's been mated 3 times doesn't mean she's pregnant. I think it's too soon to say that unless you've had confirmation from the elephant team.
thats to right, i was told by vollenterrs at dubbo that our Burma, who was about 50 years when she first moved to her lovely new enclousre, that since she was amted by heamn, also 50 and now deceased, she HAD to be pregnent! alsmost entirely impossible due to research stating that elephant reproductive systems shut down when not used in so mnay years, but hay, i still wanted a baby ele!
I'm very aware that mating doesn't necessarily equal pregnancy. Hornbill posted that she's believed pregnant though. Hopefully we will soon get confirmation or otherwise.
Upali
Well-Known Member
If she is pregnant i hope it would go well as she is quite old to breed for the the first time. Also when i visited on thursday she was lame in her front right(i think) leg. But its amazing the difference as i visited when she first arrived and she was kept only with one other female and now it was as if she had been there for years!!
They still don't know if Birma is pregnant. She has been living with Sheba, the oldest female, who has not been that well lately. Sheba has lost a lot of weight, and has problems with feeding as she has few teeth left, so perhaps her days are numbered. Birma has made a strong bond with her since she arrived from Mauberge Zoo last year.
Presumably when Sheba dies, 'Maya' as the next oldest(?), will be the new matriarch. Thi HI Way seems to show definite stereotyped behaviour, standing in one place for a long time and weaving her head back and forth.
Her daughter Sithami has grown considerably since she gave birth at the young age of six.. But now they are concerned that her own daughter Sundara, who is only THREE, is showing signs of sexual cycling behaviour!. They cannot put Upali in the group at these times for risk of a possible conception... Surely not natural. What is happening here?
Presumably when Sheba dies, 'Maya' as the next oldest(?), will be the new matriarch. Thi HI Way seems to show definite stereotyped behaviour, standing in one place for a long time and weaving her head back and forth.
Her daughter Sithami has grown considerably since she gave birth at the young age of six.. But now they are concerned that her own daughter Sundara, who is only THREE, is showing signs of sexual cycling behaviour!. They cannot put Upali in the group at these times for risk of a possible conception... Surely not natural. What is happening here?
There is an issue of the EAZA news magazine from 2004 (I think) which is dedicated to elephants, and it contains an article from A.-K. Oerke from Germany who does research on elephant reproduction. It seems that most zoo-born asian elephant females start cycling at the age of 4. That is no exeption but normal! The reason probably is that they develop much fast physically then wild elephants. A 4 year old zoo-born female often has the size and the weight of a 8/9 year old wild born elephant (which is the age in which wild born elephants start cycling at the earlierst). Sexual maturity is more related to body weight then age. Regarding Sundara, 3 is indeed VERY early... is she a very big for her age?
Okay, that's interesting. Its a similar phenomena to handraised Gorilla babies. They start to cycle at an earlier age than mother-reared babies, perhaps because they are faster growing too? One or two have concieved at age 6 or less..
I can't say if Sundara is large for her age. I know her mother 'Sithami' was only about 5 when she concieved (by Chang, her father...it was a mistake) She was hardly more than a calf then.
I guess they've learned from that and won't let it happen with Sundara/Upali. They told me that when they want to get Sithami mated again, they'll have to put Upali with her when they know the calf isn't cycling too. Incidentally, I was interested to see Sithami has grown a lot more from when she had the calf three years ago- she is about a third larger than she was then.
I can't say if Sundara is large for her age. I know her mother 'Sithami' was only about 5 when she concieved (by Chang, her father...it was a mistake) She was hardly more than a calf then.
I guess they've learned from that and won't let it happen with Sundara/Upali. They told me that when they want to get Sithami mated again, they'll have to put Upali with her when they know the calf isn't cycling too. Incidentally, I was interested to see Sithami has grown a lot more from when she had the calf three years ago- she is about a third larger than she was then.
Females of one herd often cycle synchronal and as a result, have their babys within a few weeks. It makes sense to have all babys born at the same time so that the herd only has to walk slow ect. for a few months and then not that soon again. You can see that in zoo herds, too. Often one zoo has 2 or even 3 births in a few months and then no calves for a couple of years. I think this happened in Chester in 2004, with Jangoli and Sithami giving birth within a few weeks and Thi having a stillbirth only 3 days apart from Sithami.
