Belfast Zoo Belfast's mystery new mammal arrives nexy week!

[Al]

Im sorry to disapoint so many but indeed are new species are Smooth caoted otters! Although they are classified as vunerble they are rarer than the least concern short clawed otter. There may not currently be an EEP AS stated but I have it on good authority that a programme will indeed be made for them and for those who are the against the species I know of at least four big UK zoos that paln to keep the species and also some in Europe. The giant otter are indeed a very interesting and rarer species but they require alot more space which we do not have! As I said before we are extremely excited to aquire the species and look forward to breeding them in the future. As for the hairy nosed otters i'd be very interested for you to pm me about your sources as this information can be passed on to the Small carnivore TAG CHAIR who is avery nice guy and happens to be a good friend of mine! The species indeed would also be great to work with!

 

[taun]

I shall have to do some reading up then, glad they have arrived safe and well.

Do you know where they will go on exhibit yet after the quarantine?

 

[foz]

Fantastic! It realy seems the UK is the place in Europe for otters, With the only two places with smooth coated otters, new giant otters, North american otters at bristol, european otters at various placs and the usual

It will be interesting to see the enclosure and how breeding progressses.

 

[Mr Saxon]

I'm also interested in seeing the exhibit. I'm guessing they will be near the Asian short-clawed otters and Cal sea lions.

Anyway....YEAH! Smooth Coated Otters! WOOHOO!!

 

[Fergie]

Al,

Great news on the otters, although to be honest, I was hoping for a primate species! Will the smooth-coated otters move in to the short-clawed enclosure and the short-clawed leave the collection or will a new enclosure be created for them, down in the avenue?

Also, is the giant anteater in its final enclosure down in the avenue and any news of a female??

 

[moloch gibbon]

Not at all. They are locally very abundant.

While there is nothing wrong with a zoo wanting a few captive rarities, however I really disagree with this import.
There is no and will be no EEP for this Species.
The Giant Otter can still be considered a rarity in captivity, it's endangered in its wild state and also makes a superb display species and as successfull captive breeding continues (in the USA, Germany and its range countires) will require more space.

Its a shame belfast didnt invest time and money in the CRITICALLY ENDANGERED Hairy Nosed Otter. I know of three captive specimens that would make a good foundation for a captive breeding program.

A couple of points: firstly, how can anyone categorically say that 'there will be no EEP for this species' - unless we have the gift of looking into a crystal ball, then how can we possibly know which species will have an EEP or ESB in the future (I'm sure EAZA would be delighted to have an exhaustive and definative list of EEP species that wouldn't ever need to be changed; surely potential new managed species are discussed at each EAZA main, and mid-year meetings, and are open to debate; secondly, I'd have thought that as a zoo enthusiast (which I hope we all are on this forum), would have been pleased to see a new species of not only otter in particular, but mammal in particular appearing again in the UK. Hypothetically, would we decry any zoo from bringing in Delacour Langurs, Snub-nosed Monkeys or any number of wonderful species just because there's no EEP for them. I'm sure that any forward-thinking zoo would be delighted to obtain the three Hairy-nosed otters that you mentioned; perhaps you could discuss this possiblity with some other zoos, who, like Belfast, HAVE invested time and money to bring (as well as RSCC) a fabulous species for zoo visitors to admire. A final thought: today's common species may be tomorrows endandered ones - remember the Passenger Pigeon, Dodo, several sub-species of Tiger, et al.

 

[Sand Cat]

Don't listen to what some of the more critical members of this forum say Al - you should be very happy to have Smooth Coated Otters, they will be a wonderful addition to the zoo's collection! I have personally never seen one, and if only one other European zoo keeps them then this is obviously a very big deal for Belfast. Best of luck with the species, and it sounds like so many other animals, Belfast is proving to be a trend-setter for the UK!

 

[Mr Saxon]

I hope the Smooth-coated otters get a new exhibit made for them down near the end of avenue walk. It'd be nice to get a bit more visitors down there. Also keen to be updated about the Anteaters and the Capybaras and news on their mates.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Im sorry to disapoint so many but indeed are new species are Smooth caoted otters! Although they are classified as vunerble they are rarer than the least concern short clawed otter. There may not currently be an EEP AS stated but I have it on good authority that a programme will indeed be made for them and for those who are the against the species I know of at least four big UK zoos that paln to keep the species and also some in Europe. The giant otter are indeed a very interesting and rarer species but they require alot more space which we do not have! As I said before we are extremely excited to aquire the species and look forward to breeding them in the future. As for the hairy nosed otters i'd be very interested for you to pm me about your sources as this information can be passed on to the Small carnivore TAG CHAIR who is avery nice guy and happens to be a good friend of mine! The species indeed would also be great to work with!

I have kept from coming up with any suggestions. I rather have myself the pleasure of a surprise. I am happy that a SE Asian tropical rainforest type otter species has been selected and I do think they are more deserving of captive space then some of the forumsters would have it.

Also I stand by Al's assertion re their wild status. Tropical rainforest freshwater ressources are not exactly in great supply, and as prime indicators of the health of acquatic habitats smooth-coated otters have an added conservation relevance.

For the rest, I reserve my pm.

 

[zoogiraffe]

Glad you`ve got them just a quick question which pair have you got the new pair or the ones from RSCC

 

[Al]

Thanks for all the positive comments! It is refreshing when people are glad to hear about exciting new species rather than be critical and shall I say down right rude! The pair are the new animals imported. Anyone who comes over to visit our beautiful zoo please feel free to get in touch and i'll be happy to chat to you about them!

 

[ZooLeopard]

what great news for belfast! good luck

 

[peacockpheasant]

A couple of points: firstly, how can anyone categorically say that 'there will be no EEP for this species' .

With great ease. The species is not endangered.

EEP = European Endangered species Programme

I have run an EEP myself in the past and I’m well informed as to their role and reason for being.

Although the species is vulnerable it has a huge distribution and is very abundant in protected areas. If this species were to become endangered it’s a little way of yet.

Hypothetically, would we decry any zoo from bringing in Delacour Langurs, Snub-nosed Monkeys or any number of wonderful species just because there's no EEP for them..

Again you make no sense. Both are critically endangered and need all the help they can get hardly a good comparison with smooth coated otters.
However these delicate primates are far better off protected in their natural habitat and it im sure it would be disastrous to remove animals from the small population for captive breeding programs half way around the world.

A final thought: today's common species may be tomorrows endandered ones - remember the Passenger Pigeon, Dodo, several sub-species of Tiger, et al.

Terrible argument with limited resources how can Zoo's maintain security populations for species not considered endangered. Collection plans are in place for a reason so valuable spaces are not given over to species which don’t require them.

Please think before you post such uninformed rubbish.



I really don’t understand this desire some people have to bring a species in to captivity for intensive management as soon as someone cuts down a tree or points a gun towards it. History has taught us that not all species respond to captive conditions and these fragile species often sap resources that would be better spent on species that thrive in captivity.

Don’t get me wrong I am a huge zoo advocate (I even maintain a large collection of species myself and im involved in several breeding programs) but if zoo’s are to survive behind the often very thin veil that they exist to save species from extinction (among other modern arguments for their existence) then they need to be more responsible in their decision making. Let’s be honest with the amount of work it takes to successfully reintroduce a captive bred animal most conservation efforts should be focused on keeping animals in the wild.

 

[Al]

Thanks for another positive comment, from your comments in this thread and other regarding pheasants Im pretty sure I know who you are!

Im sure with your vast knowledge and experience you know that although EEP does stand for endangered species breeding programme, it is generally now used as the highest level of management for a number of species in captivity but they are definately not all endangered, red kangaroo for example. Again who said it had to be an EEP ? ESBs are also important programmes indeed I run one!

I understand your arguements but I feel a real bitterness from your posts! Please just calm down!

 

[peacockpheasant]

Thanks for another positive comment, from your comments in this thread and other regarding pheasants Im pretty sure I know who you are!

Im sure with your vast knowledge and experience you know that although EEP does stand for endangered species breeding programme, it is generally now used as the highest level of management for a number of species in captivity but they are definately not all endangered, red kangaroo for example. Again who said it had to be an EEP ? ESBs are also important programmes indeed I run one!

I understand your arguements but I feel a real bitterness from your posts! Please just calm down!

Sorry red kangaroo is an ESB. At no point have I mentioned ESB in regards to these otters.

I assure you i'm not bitter and i'm very calm. In my onion its a waste of time and resources, Belfast could have easily secured a pair of Giant Otters.

Isnt the point of a forum is to air your opinion?

I dont post here often but when I do its because its something i have a strong opinion on (you may remember I exposed Sebbe67 as a fraud because i knew no such collection existed and thought it was terrible how he was misleading some of you).

There are many people on this forum I respect and even know and thats why i sometimes drop in. There are also some people who would benefit from thinking before they post.

 

[sooty mangabey]

There are also some people who would benefit from thinking before they post.

I disagree with a lot of what you have said on this thread, but that's fine - I often disagree with my best friends. I even disagree with myself a lot of the time.

I think what people are objecting to here is not so much your opinion - absolutely valid - but rather your really rather unpleasant rudeness. It's not big, it's not clever.

 

[peacockpheasant]

I disagree with a lot of what you have said on this thread, but that's fine - I often disagree with my best friends. I even disagree with myself a lot of the time.

I think what people are objecting to here is not so much your opinion - absolutely valid - but rather your really rather unpleasant rudeness. It's not big, it's not clever.

Oh dear. Quite the dressing down.

Perhaps you could share your thoughts ? I'd be very interested to know how you think starting an ESB for Smooth Coated Otters is in any way a positive move.

Please consider that as animals are sent to Europe for this proposed program the vacuum they leave will be filled with animals sourced from the wild.

The whole thing is unnecessary. I am always willing to hear and even accept a valid reason/explanation for this importation, So someone who backs this idea please try.

I'm not singling out Belfast or Smooth Coated Otters here there have been many zoo's and species involved in equally pointless (again in my opinion) endeavours in recent years many of which have failed to get off the ground (Purple Faced Langur, Leadbeaters Possum, Bawean Deer).

 

[MikeG]

The whole thing is unnecessary.

It's 'unnecessary' to the continued existence of the species (for now) in the wild. Is that what you mean?
Not so long ago, the Oriental White-backed Vulture was considered to be just about the commonest bird of prey in the world. If some had been taken into captivity, I imagine people like yourself would have stridently denounced the zoos involved for their 'unnecessary' action.
Then the vulture numbers collapsed: the species is now critically endangered.
Maybe it would have been a good idea for zoos to build up expertise in captive husbandry for the vulture, at a time when taking a relatively small number of individuals from the wild would have made little difference?
None of us know which species will be the next to need a captive breeding programme: that's why some people got shirty about you saying there'd never be an EEP for smooth-coated otters. Neither you nor I can say that....unless you do have a crystal ball....in which case would you send me next week's winning lottery numbers, please.

 

[bongorob]

Although the species is vulnerable it has a huge distribution and is very abundant in protected areas. If this species were to become endangered it’s a little way of yet.

The Handbook of the Mammals of the World volume 1 gives an account of the smooth-coated otter.

"Although the smooth-coated otter may have been quite common in the past and populations stable, it is now likely this is changing rapidly and that this species will soon be in need of urgent help ."

Reasons given are

increase in human population.
population under pressure through habitat destruction and pollution.
conflict with fishermen and aquariculture.
fur trapping in India, Nepal and Bangladesh.
Conservation laws are not enforced.

It has been suggested that the best help for this species would be both in-situ and ex-situ conservation efforts.

This to me suggests that the smooth-coated otter will be listed as endangered in the near future.

 

[Mr Saxon]

Al, I'm guessing this will be a breeding pair? And where are they coming from exactly?