UK Flamingo Husbandry
- Thread starter Bele
- Start date
I think zoos have a problem. Traditional flamingo pools need to be changed. On the other hand, bear pits and paddocks with lone elephant disappeared from zoos.
I wonder how many British zoos fill the description from #17? Or that, but with all the birds flightless?
I wonder how many British zoos fill the description from #17? Or that, but with all the birds flightless?
Quite a few collections meet many of the requirements listed in post 17 by Jurek . It is the males being flighted that is least common , though it does not totally preclude breeding as many flocks do still manage to reproduce .
I think I forgot to mention Bristol when listing collectioons keeping their birds in a covered enclosure . Their young flock of Greaters have bred , though not this year I think .
I have not listed the few LESSERS FLAMINGO in the UK -
From ISIS are listed
Flamingo Park IOW - 28 ( kept in an aviary but have not bred )
Slimbridge - 41 ( the enclosure they bred in has been demolished and they have been moved to the old Andean /James' pen , also some have been transferred to Hillside )
Hillside - a private collection where they have bred for a number of years . I would be very interested to know the size of the current flock and how many have been bred and whether they breed annually or sporadically .
I think I forgot to mention Bristol when listing collectioons keeping their birds in a covered enclosure . Their young flock of Greaters have bred , though not this year I think .
I have not listed the few LESSERS FLAMINGO in the UK -
From ISIS are listed
Flamingo Park IOW - 28 ( kept in an aviary but have not bred )
Slimbridge - 41 ( the enclosure they bred in has been demolished and they have been moved to the old Andean /James' pen , also some have been transferred to Hillside )
Hillside - a private collection where they have bred for a number of years . I would be very interested to know the size of the current flock and how many have been bred and whether they breed annually or sporadically .
Perhaps, wing-clipping may be the single most important factor in breeding failure. I would also suggest that enclosures not being netted goes with the former ... (no netting, no possibility for no wing-clipping).
The lesser flamingo situation is rather worrying. I would love to see Hillside's set up ..., but then quite a few private collections achieve far better results with birds than do generalist zoos!
The lesser flamingo situation is rather worrying. I would love to see Hillside's set up ..., but then quite a few private collections achieve far better results with birds than do generalist zoos!
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
The Hillside flock is currently around 70 birds and even with the ones sent from Slimbridge would still be around 50 birds.Our friends on here that work at Blackbrook would be able to give a more accurate figure than myself!
Whilst browsing I found Flamingo 17 , Dec. 2009 , the newsletter of the IUCN/SSC/Wetlands Int. Flamingo Specialist Group .
It lists captive flamingos held by member collections for the period Oct. 2008 to Sept. 2009 .
American 169 collections 4744 birds with 122 bred
Greater 131 collections 4575 birds with 124 bred
Chilean 173 collections 4686 birds with 49 bred
Lesser 60 collections 1567 birds with 11 bred
Andean 1 collection 26 birds 0 bred ( Slimbridge probably )
James' 1 collection 2 birds 0 bred " "
There is also an article about the successful breeding of Lessers at Fort Worth . The birds breed indoors in a building with mirror walls in the Winter/early Spring. All males are full-flighted . From 136 eggs 59 have hatched between 2002 and 2009 , including several to the second-generation . Lesser flamingos are still being imported into the States from Tanzania .
It lists captive flamingos held by member collections for the period Oct. 2008 to Sept. 2009 .
American 169 collections 4744 birds with 122 bred
Greater 131 collections 4575 birds with 124 bred
Chilean 173 collections 4686 birds with 49 bred
Lesser 60 collections 1567 birds with 11 bred
Andean 1 collection 26 birds 0 bred ( Slimbridge probably )
James' 1 collection 2 birds 0 bred " "
There is also an article about the successful breeding of Lessers at Fort Worth . The birds breed indoors in a building with mirror walls in the Winter/early Spring. All males are full-flighted . From 136 eggs 59 have hatched between 2002 and 2009 , including several to the second-generation . Lesser flamingos are still being imported into the States from Tanzania .
I read somewhere that up to three quarters of male flamingos are unable to copulate after wing clipping.
The solution are netted aviaries (some Czech zoos build inexpensive and attractive walk-through aviaries), or leaving males free-flying as in Basel zoo, or controversial clipping both wings symmetrically.
I think, however, that zoos have much to do besides that. Too small flocks and uneven sex ratio (generally unsexed birds) seem to be the rule not exception. Also, many falmingo pools are in shade, too small, too close to visitors or otherwise unsuitable.
I would suggest replacing flamingos in small pools by eg. Black or Black-necked Swans, building suitable aviaries and pooling birds from several zoos into large flocks of 50+ for breeding.
I think wing clipping is also reason why birds like Marabou, Shoebill and Saddle-billed Storks don't reproduce in zoos. In contrast, swans, geese and ducks seem to live and breed perfectly when wing-clipped. Perhaps because waterfowl naturally become flightless during their moult.
toucanwalk
Well-Known Member
The problem that the Uk has with its flamingos is the climate,lessers,carribeans and greaters never even see ice in their natural habitat nor can they handle it that well, the only ones that do are the chileans,Andeans and James this could be a factor in why chileans are the easiest to breed,it is not uncommon for flocks to get frozen in if they roost too far from the volcanic geezers!
Also disturbance from foxes can leave a flock too stressed to breed for many years.
I have written to slimbridge twice on the subject of wing clipping and andean flamingos they did not respond,it is a real shame that the flock is in real risk of soon dying out,and they are a flamingo that have longer primary feathers than any other,how can they do nothing about this when they know the results berlin have had with their smaller flock of birds who have their primary feathers intact very sad.
I can only hope if they are re-doing their lesser flamingo area it will be the start of them using avairy type pens at slimbridge,and I'm sure they have a devoted team of staff caring for the birds.
All lessers in the Uk should be sent to hillside the more flamingos they can get hold of the better they are able to breed them the best so thats where they should be, then after a few good breeding years young birds should be sent back to the collections who donated birds to them.
Chester do very well with their flamingos but I can't work out if they are now letting them be fully winged as on zoo days the area seems to be coverd over the top ?
Flamingos are certainly the ideal bird for a bird garden they look amazing around flowers and borders like a scene from alice and wonderland,I don't see any problems with flamingos having a back drop of vegetation but give them the conditions to breed aswell
-places like the brill paradise park,birdland and the rooft top gardens in london all have small flocks who don't breed this should be acted upon,however I would not expect chicks from flocks every year we have bad summers when the birds don't feel like it but chicks being hatched at least every 4 years should be an aim for all zoos.
Also disturbance from foxes can leave a flock too stressed to breed for many years.
I have written to slimbridge twice on the subject of wing clipping and andean flamingos they did not respond,it is a real shame that the flock is in real risk of soon dying out,and they are a flamingo that have longer primary feathers than any other,how can they do nothing about this when they know the results berlin have had with their smaller flock of birds who have their primary feathers intact very sad.
I can only hope if they are re-doing their lesser flamingo area it will be the start of them using avairy type pens at slimbridge,and I'm sure they have a devoted team of staff caring for the birds.
All lessers in the Uk should be sent to hillside the more flamingos they can get hold of the better they are able to breed them the best so thats where they should be, then after a few good breeding years young birds should be sent back to the collections who donated birds to them.
Chester do very well with their flamingos but I can't work out if they are now letting them be fully winged as on zoo days the area seems to be coverd over the top ?
Flamingos are certainly the ideal bird for a bird garden they look amazing around flowers and borders like a scene from alice and wonderland,I don't see any problems with flamingos having a back drop of vegetation but give them the conditions to breed aswell
-places like the brill paradise park,birdland and the rooft top gardens in london all have small flocks who don't breed this should be acted upon,however I would not expect chicks from flocks every year we have bad summers when the birds don't feel like it but chicks being hatched at least every 4 years should be an aim for all zoos.
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Do you mean that cranes and pelicans have or have no problems from being flightless?
Among cranes, some species, like Eurasian Crane, also become flightless during moult.
About pelicans - there is lots done wrong with their husbandry: too small flocks, too small pools, unsecure nesting places, winter houses too small and without nesting material but many flocks develop breeding plumage in Northern autumn...
I aws told that the Chester flamingo enclosure was netted over for one season because of the fears of Bird Flu at that time .
I see no particular problem in collections showing small groups of surplus single-sex flamingos . The husbandry guide-lines suggest the group should still number at least 20 , this is probably not always practical though .
I see no particular problem in collections showing small groups of surplus single-sex flamingos . The husbandry guide-lines suggest the group should still number at least 20 , this is probably not always practical though .
toucanwalk
Well-Known Member
how did they manage to get them to breed?
Aviaries for flamingos
I think this is the future for responsible flamingo keeping and breeding. Even if there will always remain many open enclosures, the more progresive zoos will more and more turn toward aviaries. Some exist already, many other are in different stages of projecting in Europe. Because it works.
An example - the two zoos with the best flamingo breeding result this year in Czech rep. both keep their flocks full-flighted in an aviary. They don´t have the biggest flocks and aren´t the richest among the local zoos, yet their flamingos breed well (more than 50% of their adult birds are rearing a chick this season).
Andean flamingos at Slimbridge
As already mentioned, if nothing happens within next ca 5 years, they will be doomed to disappear from the UK sooner or later. There is none bird younger then 20 years in the flock and most probably over 40-45 years old.
I´m not sure if the Berlin zoo breeding flock alone can establish a future european population - there are so few and it looks like there is only 1 actively breeding pair right now. That would mean an extremely narrow genetic basis. The Slimbridge birds are essencial for the future of this species in Europe.
Small flocks
I can´t see one single reason why to accept the continuing of this practice. Flamingos are colonial in their nature, they enjoy to be part of a big flock. Either you care about the wellfare of an animal and keep it in a good way, or you let it go to a better place.
I recommend to spend some longer time in front of an enclosure containg a small flock and then compaire it with behaviour within a big flock. The difference in (or lack of) an activity is obvious. Or just observe their natural reaction when they get into panic - they gather all together and act as a homogenous flock. The numbers gives them the sense of security. You can quarrel about the exact limit of 20 (for non-breeding flocks) and 40 (for breeding flocks), but the general idea behind it and rough numbers seems all right to me.
Genetical diversity of captive populations
This theme was not mentioned so far, but should get a target too. So far I know, AZA runs 4 detailed studbooks for all their flamingo species. EAZA started with some sort of monitoring few years ago, but it doesn´t cover genetic diversity. I don´t know about any other european studbook (only the Czech and Slovak one, run by Dvur Kralove). Do have BIAZA have something like it planned?
It looks like that there are each year almost the same pairs that breed within the captive flocks (especially the smaller ones), and when you include the practise of egg-pulling and hand-rearing of chicks at some zoos, which produces multiple offspring from one pair in one season, you can get within 1-2 generations to a very significant genetic diversity loss. Can anybody guess how many potential founders without offsping die each year within UK/Europe without even noticing it?
@FBBird I would be also very interested to know how this private breeder achieved an offspring in a flock of only 6 birds. Sounds almost unbelievable.
I think this is the future for responsible flamingo keeping and breeding. Even if there will always remain many open enclosures, the more progresive zoos will more and more turn toward aviaries. Some exist already, many other are in different stages of projecting in Europe. Because it works.
An example - the two zoos with the best flamingo breeding result this year in Czech rep. both keep their flocks full-flighted in an aviary. They don´t have the biggest flocks and aren´t the richest among the local zoos, yet their flamingos breed well (more than 50% of their adult birds are rearing a chick this season).
Andean flamingos at Slimbridge
As already mentioned, if nothing happens within next ca 5 years, they will be doomed to disappear from the UK sooner or later. There is none bird younger then 20 years in the flock and most probably over 40-45 years old.
I´m not sure if the Berlin zoo breeding flock alone can establish a future european population - there are so few and it looks like there is only 1 actively breeding pair right now. That would mean an extremely narrow genetic basis. The Slimbridge birds are essencial for the future of this species in Europe.
Small flocks
I can´t see one single reason why to accept the continuing of this practice. Flamingos are colonial in their nature, they enjoy to be part of a big flock. Either you care about the wellfare of an animal and keep it in a good way, or you let it go to a better place.
I recommend to spend some longer time in front of an enclosure containg a small flock and then compaire it with behaviour within a big flock. The difference in (or lack of) an activity is obvious. Or just observe their natural reaction when they get into panic - they gather all together and act as a homogenous flock. The numbers gives them the sense of security. You can quarrel about the exact limit of 20 (for non-breeding flocks) and 40 (for breeding flocks), but the general idea behind it and rough numbers seems all right to me.
Genetical diversity of captive populations
This theme was not mentioned so far, but should get a target too. So far I know, AZA runs 4 detailed studbooks for all their flamingo species. EAZA started with some sort of monitoring few years ago, but it doesn´t cover genetic diversity. I don´t know about any other european studbook (only the Czech and Slovak one, run by Dvur Kralove). Do have BIAZA have something like it planned?
It looks like that there are each year almost the same pairs that breed within the captive flocks (especially the smaller ones), and when you include the practise of egg-pulling and hand-rearing of chicks at some zoos, which produces multiple offspring from one pair in one season, you can get within 1-2 generations to a very significant genetic diversity loss. Can anybody guess how many potential founders without offsping die each year within UK/Europe without even noticing it?
@FBBird I would be also very interested to know how this private breeder achieved an offspring in a flock of only 6 birds. Sounds almost unbelievable.
Re the flock of six that bred, I was shown the seven birds after they moved to another [private] collection after their owner's death. There were clearly six adults and a juvenile, and my understanding was that the six had been together for some years. I suggest that it's not so much the size of the flock, as the birds feeling secure and comfortable, that encourages nesting. Obviously, they are more likely to feel secure in a big flock, as that is their natural situation. However, this doesn't prevent a small flock from breeding, if they feel safe and the husbandry is right. Sorry I can't give more detail, but it was about 20 years ago. Good husbandry can produce remarkable results in a less than ideal setting.
I would suggest [given that I don't actually KNOW] that a good solid visual barrier at the back of the enclosure, so the birds cannot be viewed from all round, might promote some of the security that would come from being part of a huge flock. It may be useful to have breeding ducks or geese in with them to create a 'breeding atmosphere'. Also, I wonder if water of swimming depth promotes security or even facilitates copulation [do they ever copulate in deep water?]. Interesting that we now have at least two anecdotal accounts of small flocks breeding.
I wonder how Slimbrige would feel about sending a few females to Berlin. On the other hand, aviary of Andean and James Flamingos in Berlin is very small, and may not accomodate additional birds.
About breeding in small flocks - the manual I linked has statistics of breeding in different flock size. All large flocks breed, but only few of small flocks ever try to breed. I never heard of regular, sustained breeding in such a situation.
I have been thinking on similar lines of thought as conservation dependency should be prime in seletion of those taxa deserving captive space. Besides their prolonged non-breeding status puts an onus on Slimbridge to actually sent off some of their birds off somewhere else where breeding conditions are met more fully.
I also do believe that Slimbridge might wish to go into aviary for these flamingos. Do they practice wing-clipping (which I think is also a major factor in non-breeding).
As far as I know, all Flamingos at Slimbridge are pinioned. If they are to be kept in open topped enclosures, this is the only option. Wing-clipping has to be repeated when new primaries are partly grown and again when they're fully grown [otherwise they become full winged and able to fly away -- this has led to feral Chileans brreding in Europe]; handling Flamingos is always fraught with danger [possible injury, never mind the stress]. The case against covered aviaries is [1] cost, [2] they can have a larger area if pinioned, [3] they can't fly into netting and get injured or entangled and [4] every so often a squirrel chews a hole in flexible netting and lets a lot of birds out. I'm not saying that keeping Flamingos [geese, swans, cranes, pelicans or whatever] full-winged in netted aviaries is a bad thing, just that there is a 'down' side.