ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Whipsnade

Al said:
yes you are right glyn, the EEP want to concentrate on the indian sub-species rather than the sri lankan. there seems also to be problems finding other institutions to keep the species
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The US/Canadian SSP concentrates on the Sri Lankan subspecies. So, I could never understand ZSL's involvement with this taxon rather than the Indian subcontinental form (for which even at that particular time a recommendation existed).

Anyhow, as for complaints that no unrelated sloth bears can be sourced. Just think of it that in Indian zoos they hold 387 sloth bears (report 2006/07). A staggering 190 are held in 2 rescue centers for bear rehabilitation. If only we could begin to acquire some 30-40 bears off the rehabilitation centers we would be have a right ball with a great breeding programme.

A question here: what is stopping the zoo fraternity from investing in confiscated endangered wildlife that can never be released back to the wild? :confused:
 
work is underway to get more bears from India but this may take time
 
Al said:
work is underway to get more bears from India but this may take time
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Al,

That sure is good news, I will try and look up the contact details for the Indian sloth bear programme. I have it somewhere buried around my desk full of these wildlife and zoo papers. :eek:

Jelle
 
Al said:
work is underway to get more bears from India but this may take time
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Zoo bears? Circus bears? But then again most programs i watch talks about Sloth's in a circus, Sri Lankan.
 
jelle said:
I would not call PETA, PAWS or their ilk fair criticism. These phoney "animal love" people have as much scientific understanding of wildlife, their needs and zoo management as the back of my behind. What I would call fair criticism is those comments intended to build upon .. and not try to break it down (with the ulterior motive of shutting every zoo in the country).
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Sadly, as a general rule with many things, a little gentle, constructive criticism doesn't really effect change as much as really harsh, publicity-attracting, militant protest. I don't think the UK would have some of the fine establishments it has now if it wasn't for such fierce opposition, no matter how much you dislike it. I think the care that now goes into new exhibits for great apes or bears is not just an internal force, I think the expectations of the public have been shaped by animal rights groups.

Why haven't London sent all their bears to the US if the SSP has mostly sri lankan animals? Would seem cheaper and more logical than having to build an enclosure for them at Whipsnade. It has been quite a year for new developments there.....so many major enclosures in such a short space of time.
 
johnstoni said:
Sadly, as a general rule with many things, a little gentle, constructive criticism doesn't really effect change as much as really harsh, publicity-attracting, militant protest. I don't think the UK would have some of the fine establishments it has now if it wasn't for such fierce opposition, no matter how much you dislike it. I think the care that now goes into new exhibits for great apes or bears is not just an internal force, I think the expectations of the public have been shaped by animal rights groups.
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Frankly, let us say we disagree on the subject. I do not condone the tactics, nor criticism of PETA or any other group which have as their single most important objective the exclusion of all wild animals from captivity and extinction of zoos in general. Their view that all wildlife should be in the natural world to be free and live the simple life is both elitist, tunnel-vision borne and carries no salt of truth in it.

For their general arguement's sake: in general most protected areas in the natural world function just as zoos, where just their area of occupancy is more impressive and where their continued survival is mostly not even assured. To then give us (animal libbers that is) the public a choice between education and conservation by recreation at public zoos or by visiting the wide open spaces of the natural world is equally deranged and elitist (only the happy few like myself can ever dream of doing that).

So, we are left with zoos as a public exhibition of wild fauna and flora and centres from which conservation action can be directed effectively through their knowledge and experience of maintaining wild animal and plant populations in captivity. Conditions at zoos in general have improved enormously since even the 1970's, but that can hardly be written on the credit of a few misbehaving animal right's followers (they do not have the experience, scientific knowledge or understanding of the real needs of bears, gorillas, giraffes, rhinos, elephants or any other type of zoo animal for that matter.

I could of course go on endlessly. F.i. the human dimensions of biodiversity loss and how human populations by black earth economics, poverty amelioration in the third world through improved health care and access to clean water as opposed to development through education is driving the extinction crisis and how this than affects the tasks zoos and protected areas worldwide have to save species from extinction and how animal libbers do not help that cause one single inch), but I will leave it at that. :mad:
 
Of topic, just for a sec,

Some animal groups don't help at all basically many just protest and like a news article said (can't remember which) "Protesting from other groups make us have a bad look"

By the way i haven't seen an actual sloth bear or exhibit with a sloth bear. But are sloth bears extremly dangerous in captivity as well?
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
By the way i haven't seen an actual sloth bear or exhibit with a sloth bear. But are sloth bears extremly dangerous in captivity as well?
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Not sure of their reputation as a species, but the the ZSL mother bear killed a muntjac which used to share the "bear mountain" (mappin terraces) at London.
 
glyn said:
In 2005, and I believe maybe to present the animals at ZSL (Sloth Bears) were a female and her two grown-up cubs 1.1

I am probably wrong but it may have been that the male was sent to the US to participate in the program there.....
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It was my understanding the male Bear died at ZSL but I'm not entirely sure...
 
CZJimmy said:
Not sure of their reputation as a species, but the the ZSL mother bear killed a muntjac which used to share the "bear mountain" (mappin terraces) at London.
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They can be very aggressive/dangerous in the wild and I've seen aggressive behaviour in captivity once or twice. Normally they seem to tame down like most other bears in captivity.

In India they are still used as performing bears- but I guess their initial aggression is tempered by the cruel training continuously inflicted on them until their spirit becomes broken. Hopefully one day NO sloth bears will be treated in that fashion any more.

I have to say I think Sloth Bears are very interesting but quite the ugliest of all bears...
 
Pertinax said:
It was my understanding the male Bear died at ZSL but I'm not entirely sure...
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From what i understand (after reading this thread), ZSL still has the mother and 1 male and 1 female cub...

So I think means the father must've died...
 
When I went to London zoo a few months back, the brother and sister were kept together in the main exhibit, and the mother was kept separately at the back of the exhibit, so there was no father there.
 
To give some background:
These bears lived in Warsaw in very small cages, and Warsaw took opportunity to send them away when Warsaw started all-over redevelopment and London had exhibit. So, bears already are in London because of quality of life.

Reason why European sloth bear breeding plan collapsed is, AFAIK, simple - lack of good exhibit space. Zoos rightly close their concrete bear exhibits since 1980s, but it means - no place for bears. For the same reason, polar bears were almost not bred for years. Spectacled bear is considered to be in biggest danger among smaller bears, and got priority.

About former dancing bears from India - they are all declawed and with holes in their noses. I doubt if any is capable of breeding (e.g. likely, all males are castrated, many have various other ailments). I can imagine outcry of animal right activists if such animal appeared on exhibit!

And to clarify - some users seem to get chronology wrong. Zoos themselves (1980s?) realised that bears are kept in bad exhibits, then (1990s) came EU zoo regulation. Zoo program made animal rights groups to jump on the bandwagon, not opposite. Indian bear sanctuaries is run by small, local societies. I am not aware of any action of PETA there.

Sloth bear is d*mn dangerous, in India is considered to be far more dangerous than tiger. It comes from its huge claws, lacks of facial mimic, and poor sight and hearing. In India it has tendency to sleep deeply and not notice human until last second, and then stand upright and slash blindly with claws. In the zoo, I suppose, it is waken gently with favorite tune ;)
 
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dragon(ele)nerd said:
Which zoo has had the most success with breeding Sloth Bears?
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Zoologischer Garten Leipzig and Artis Zoo Amsterdam (former sloth bear studbook keeper).

I still think there needs to be a more apt response to the bear spaces issue in EAZA zoos. Phase out generics a.s.a.p. and concentrate on spectacled, sloth, European brown and polar bears only.

Safari and bigger wildlife parks should also tip in a bit (imagine e.g. West Midlands, Knowsley and Safari Beekse Bergen with large bear exhibits).
 
jelle said:
I still think there needs to be a more apt response to the bear spaces issue in EAZA zoos. Phase out generics a.s.a.p. and concentrate on spectacled, sloth, European brown and polar bears only.
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I can only agree. However, phasing out will go long into future... bears live 30 years or so.

Several European zoos actualy are more specific and keep bears of Pyrenean origin. It is very rare, genetically different, sub-population of European.

Hopefully, more zoos will build good exhibits, as it is clear that bears can be kept with natural vegetation behind electric fence. Not these terrible concrete platforms... Bears could be again common sight in zoos.

I have no idea about costs of zoo exhibits, but fenced bear forest should be even relatively cheap - as zoo exhibits go?
 
jelle said:
Zoologischer Garten Leipzig and Artis Zoo Amsterdam (former sloth bear studbook keeper).

I still think there needs to be a more apt response to the bear spaces issue in EAZA zoos. Phase out generics a.s.a.p. and concentrate on spectacled, sloth, European brown and polar bears only.

Safari and bigger wildlife parks should also tip in a bit (imagine e.g. West Midlands, Knowsley and Safari Beekse Bergen with large bear exhibits).
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Thanks for that,
Does anyone here know a zoo that keeps many bears in the same exhibit? like 5 or so?
Because bears only stay together when mating, or occasionally siblings stay together through life. There was this amateur video i watched about different zoo and an exhibit had many brown bears.
 
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