Edinburgh Zoo Giant pandas coming to Edinburgh zoo?

Now the speculation starts, i believe with the Amur tigers heading north, their vacant enclosure would be an ideal exhibit for giant panda, with an additional enclosure for them in the former takin paddock which is a wooded hillside paddock.
 
kiang said:
Now the speculation starts, i believe with the Amur tigers heading north, their vacant enclosure would be an ideal exhibit for giant panda, with an additional enclosure for them in the former takin paddock which is a wooded hillside paddock.
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That's a good point actually, the tiger exhibit wouldn't be bad for them.

That said, taking on Pandas is a big financial drain (although I'm sure in the long run their pulling power will make it worth it.) Personally if I was Edinburgh I'd think it was too soon for pandas. I think Edinburgh was criticised for bringing in Koalas when it did, for a similar reason: whilst the zoo is good, there are still a lot of exhibits in need of improvement.

Perhaps the zoo can say that the pandas will help bring in the money needed for these improvements, but there is no denying they're expensive.

I would like to see improvements to the rhinos, sealions, small cats/jaguars and monkeys, as well as mercedes leaving for HWP before the pandas are introduced.
 
@kiang: thanks for posting that news link, as I wasn't sure whether or not to believe all of the "panda rumors" that were on the Edinburgh Zoo link. Turns out the rumors might be all true!

The truth of the matter is that if the zoo does indeed receive giant pandas then every single attendance record will be shattered. When giant pandas toured Australia and New Zealand around 20 years ago, spending 3 months or more at a chosen zoo, visitors flocked in huge numbers. Even the Calgary Zoo in Canada, which has 1.1 million annual visitors and has literally spent millions of dollars on new exhibits in recent memory, had an amazing number of visitors in 1988. That was the year when for 2 weeks they hosted the Winter Olympics and had a pair of giant pandas on loan for 6 months. Twenty years down the road and 1988 is STILL their all-time record year for attendance!

Who cares if Edinburgh have to pay out $1 million per year like the Adelaide Zoo in Australia (who receive their pair of pandas in 2009), because it is well worth the investment. Giant pandas are like an overpowering magnet for most communities, and that magnetism spreads to surrounding cities and countries. I honestly believe that it is a no-lose situation for any zoo outside of China to obtain pandas. The four zoos in the U.S. with pandas (San Diego, Washington D.C., Memphis and Atlanta) have all thrived in terms of attendance, and part of it is due to giant pandas.
 
Fantastic news (if it comes to fruition...)!!!

As has already been said, it will be expensive, however the pandas would be enough of an attraction to make that money back and possibly more. Edinburgh already has koalas and a polar bear (not to mention rhinos, chimps, penguins etc) so the people who visit specifically to see the pandas will have added reason to visit more than once a year.

Hypothetically, say Edinburgh get 1 million people through the gates in the first year (at £10 each) they would've made the panda loan fee, plus more. Therefore they will have more money to spend on the other areas of the zoo. It's a "spend money to make money" scenario.

Thinking about it, would Edinburgh have to pay $10million or £10million for the pandas?

Oh and does anybody have a picture of the entire tiger enclosure?
 
I would really like to see a living Panda, but i do agree with what has been posted that Edinburgh should wait and improve some of their other enclsoures first before bringing in such an animal as a panda. The cost will be huge but i suppose so will the visitors.
 
@CZJimmy: some excellent points! Many zoos have to spend more than the $1 million per year for giant pandas, and there is often a need to upgrade basic facilities in anticipation of the influx of visitors. The Adelaide Zoo in South Australia is spending $20 million before the pandas even arrive, as a new entrance, toilets, cafe, panda enclosure, pathway, etc all have to be built to accommodate the hordes that will hopefully arrive.

I've never been to Edinburgh Zoo, but I'm assuming that they might possibility wish to build an extra gift shop, cafe/restaurant, toilets, etc because they are already breaking 20 year old records with Budongo Trail and the chimps, so giant pandas will be even more of a strain on resources. Giant pandas are a gold mine for zoos, and if a newborn panda arrives in the future then all bets are off as all-time attendance records will be shattered.
 
CZJimmy said:
Oh and does anybody have a picture of the entire tiger enclosure?
Click to expand...

Have you seen the picture in my gallery? Its about half the enclosure. It's not massive, but it's high, with a very steep slope and lots of different layers. There is a side bit they can come out into with a metal fence disguised as bamboo. It is very hard to get a sense of the exhibit's size.

EDIT: Seems you have seen it, you've commented. You've even mentioned about it not look that big.
 
kiang said:
Now the speculation starts, i believe with the Amur tigers heading north, their vacant enclosure would be an ideal exhibit for giant panda, with an additional enclosure for them in the former takin paddock which is a wooded hillside paddock.
Click to expand...

With the new direction of Edinburgh and Highland collections reflecting zoogeographic zones, shouldn't giant pandas go to Highland in their montane exhibits alongside snow leopards, red pandas, kiang and takin???

I know they wouldn't (ha ha).
 
As far as I know whitson wood will be the area developed for the panda!
 
Al, i thought that too as i had seen it on the masterplan, but it is a very steep hill in the wood and not much flat ground to build the needed indoor quarters and all the other services which go along with such an important animal, with the Amur tiger enclosure there is potential there for crowd control i.e one way through the viewing cave, but if they are as advanced in their talks with the Chinese then the decision will have already been made where to site the enclosure with plans for the exhibit too.
My idea for the tiger enclosure is pure hyperbole and based on nothing else than speculation, on my part.
 
I am really sceptical if any european or US zoo should bring in giant pandas and accept the monster fee the chinese want. Some months ago, there was a very long and detailed article in the US press about the giant pandas in US zoos and the financial outcome, and the clear conclusion was that in long term, the zoos were NOT benefitting financially from having giant pandas. The visitor numbers are usually going up tremendousley in the first year and then when a cub is being raised, but that is not enough to cover the costs of the "other" years. The conclusion of the article was that the US zoos wanted to use the results of that study to negotiate with the Chinese and reduce the fees (the Chinese charge much less to zoos in developing countries, like Thailand ect.).
 
@Yassa: thanks for posting a link to that article, as it illustrates that having giant pandas in a zoo isn't quite as lucrative as many visitors think. I stated earlier on this thread that pandas in western zoos is a "no-lose situation", but perhaps I should reword my phrasing to include the notion of baby pandas. San Diego and Washington, D.C. are swamped with visitors in no small part due to their baby pandas, while the article plainly states that zoos in Memphis and Atlanta are struggling in anticipation of a newborn or two.

At the same time, massive corporations such as Home Depot, Fujifilm and UPS have donated millions to help fund giant panda exhibits, which would have been unlikely with any single other species of animal. On top of that there is the prestige factor, as those 4 U.S. zoos with pandas consistently advertise the fact that they are the only ones out of 219 AZA zoos that actually have the world's most celebrated mammal. Also, if these zoos are finding pandas to be a financial strain, then that statement is offset by the fact that both San Diego and Washington, D.C. have recently spent millions building/renovating brand new exhibits for their star performers.

Yet another bonus to obtaining giant pandas is the infrastructure all around the zoo. As I mentioned earlier, the Adelaide Zoo in South Australia has a long list of amenities that will be built to improve the overall zoo, not just the panda exhibit. Even though giant pandas in zoos can at time be draining resources from other animals, in the long run they are still wonderful additions to collections. There are many zoo fans that claim that giant pandas aren't worth obtaining, but if their local zoo imported them in then they'd be among the very first visitors lining up to see the black-and-white beauties!
 
@snowleopard: I think there was even a NG article published in 2007 about the surprisingly not-so-great financial aspects when keeping Giant Pandas in western zoos. All in all, China seems to be the only real winner when it comes to "Rent-a-Panda"-yeah, and panda fans, of course...;)

About the bit with the companies investing a lot of money only on Giant Pandas: think of ‘Spirit of the Jaguar’ at Chester Zoo or several tiger zoo exhibits supported by Esso/ExxonMobil.
 
@Sun Wukong: good point about the reference to corporate sponsorship. It seems to me that definitely some big cat exhibits are represented and paid for by large companies, but the vast majority of them worldwide are not. However, giant pandas are a prime example where one can almost guarantee that there will be some sort of funding from an outside corporation. Overall I suppose that the key to breaking even financially for western zoos with giant pandas is for offspring to be born. Without babies then there is the tendency to struggle with the cash flow.

On a side note, the weather in Scotland would probably be much more similar to the rainy, mountain terrain that giant pandas often inhabit. Of the 4 U.S. zoos with pandas, San Diego, Atlanta and Memphis can become scorching hot in the summer. Even Washington, D.C, while having its share of frosty winters, can become extremely humid and muggy in the summer months. Adelaide in South Australia will welcome pandas in 2009, and they will have to install special cooling systems for their 40 degree summer weather. Edinburgh appears to have the best "panda climate" out of those 6 zoos that I just named. However, I do realize that pandas, like many mammals, are extremely adaptable...
 
@snowleopard:...after all, they successfully reproduced in Mexico City and San Diego, didn't they?

Don't forget Vienna, Madrid and Berlin (although the later never was successful in breeding) in Your list of "zoos with Giant Pandas"...;)
 
Edinburgh Zoo

It's now official. Even if there is financial doubt many zoo directors would be keen to join the exclusive panda club, with perceived raise in status with the general public. I like pandas but I'd rather see platypus...

Regarding climate - there are a lot of pandas breeding in Chengdu but I understand that it gets pretty hot there too. I'd be more worried about them putting on weight once they get a taste for deep-fried bamboo;)
 
San Diego, Washington D.C., Atlanta, Memphis, Vienna, Madrid, Berlin and Mexico City zoos all have giant pandas. But all of a sudden there is confirmation of Adelaide, and possibly Edinburgh and Oakland (see 2008 exhibit thread). The financial pitfalls to obtaining pandas can't be all that bad!
 
If You take a look at Chengdu and Wolong, You know why: they are almost "mass-producing" Giant Pandas now in China. Therefore, I think zoo visitors are going to see more and more of them in western zoos in the future (especially if the Chinese would drop their loan fees and zoos would cooperate in getting the right amount of bamboo..).
 
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