Howletts Wild Animal Park Misinformation at Howletts

sooty mangabey

sooty mangabey

Well-Known Member
I must begin by stating that I really do love Howletts - I think some of the enclosures are magnificent, the animals are wonderful, and even the occasional commercial cack-handedness is endearing. I visited the place today, and it was as superb as ever - pallas cat kittens scampering about, Heck's macaques, the gorillas and elephants... brilliant!

And yet, I came away from a wonderful visit with a real grumpiness raging inside. And this came from the keepers' talks I endured. I'm not a fan of such talks usually - how many of us have ever heard anything we did not already know? - but these took the biscuit. I was told that anteaters had thick fur to deter attacks from "jaguars and leopards". A slip of the tongue, maybe, but you expect better. More worrying is the drum which is constantly being beaten that Howletts isn't a "normal" zoo, that it does things differently, that - the implication runs - other zoos are all a bit dodgy. The gorilla talk was presented in such a way as to leave visitors with the impression that Howletts is the only zoo that ever returns animals to the wild (it was stated about gorillas, but was opaque in the way it was put). And at the entrance is a sign which reads: "IMPORTANT NOTICE. Howletts is unique amongst animal collections. HERE ANIMALS COME FIRST. Howletts is not a mainstream zoo, it is a conservation centre where ANIMALS REALLY DO COME FIRST." I'm sure the zoo management would say that this is just to pre-empt complaints from those who claim they can't see the animals in those vast enclosures. Maybe so, but they should be careful. Do they really want to imply, as they clearly do here, that at other zoos animals do not come first? It's ugly to see this sort of thing going on here, and I would expect better from a place which is, in so many ways, so very very good.
 
There is a history to this. Damien Aspinall, since his father's death, really had to do something about making the parks work financially as they were haemorranging money. John Aspinall REALLY put animals first, and had little regard for people, something that in his day won him respect, but looks slightly like the racist persuasions of a colonial aristocrat to some today. Nonetheless, the idea still perpetuates. I'm sure the talks are rather crude, they tend to be at most collections....you actually have a very narrow scope within which to conduct these, from personal experience crowds drift away very easily if you get into stuff you think is zoologically valid....people just really want to hear stories with happy endings and be able to relate their lives to that of the given animal.

However, there are few zoos that refuse to shut their animals in/out as much as Howletts and Port Lympne, even today, and there are very few places that allow their elephant herds to spend the night outside in summer...some calves have even been born at these times and discovered in the morning.

I think the marketing side of the JAF has gone a little crazy but that is mainly because the method in which the parks enclose and care for their animals is so inflexible. They have a formula that works, and so you will see countless exhibits with the same species, many enclosures where the inhabitants are hiding out of view, yet all this is now marketed to you as if you were at a zoo like colchester, or paradise park....

I love the way that they work and next time you hear a really dumb talk, remember the people it is aimed at probably enjoyed it enough to visit more often.....
 
I 'half-listened' to one of the keeper talks there- about the Barbary Lions. There was quite a 'slagging-off' of the Safari Parks where the animals are confined to small dens overnight- yet they had recently sent a male lion(Kabir) to Longleat permanently!

The public talk naturally centred on the extinction of Barbary lions etc and Pl's record of breeding them for possible future reintroduction into the wild. Afterwards in conversation the keeper told me there was no chance of this happening and that the whole project was really a hopeless situation!

I agree these talks, at most zoos anyrate are rather superficial(and not always very accurate either, as with Bristol's 'gorilla talk') but they are aimed at the general public, rather than people with any special interest so perhaps a little mis-information is better than no information?;)
 
johnstoni said:
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I think the marketing side of the JAF has gone a little crazy but that is mainly because the method in which the parks enclose and care for their animals is so inflexible. They have a formula that works, and so you will see countless exhibits with the same species, many enclosures where the inhabitants are hiding out of view, yet all this is now marketed to you as if you were at a zoo like colchester, or paradise park....
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Yes, I do agree. I think they are desperate to bring in more people all the time to make more money. Port Lympne was even in danger of being sold off some years ago. Unlike most major collections in the Uk, neither Aspinall park is very well placed regarding large urban areas nearby- Port Lympne in particular. So while they still have the same 'natural' exhibits and concepts of husbandry as in old Aspinall's day they are now aggressively marketed as if they are commercial zoos. The latest development along these lines has been the Port Lympne 'African Experience' and all the hotel, functions, weddings, keeper for a day etc, and other commercial gadgets they've been forced to introduce.
 
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And of course zoo thousand and eight - a music festival at Port Lympne this summer. Several students that I teach are heading there - I can't say they're regular zoo goers otherwise. Not sure a music festival would be my first choice of activity to rake in a few extra pennies.
 
You do have to wonder about it's proximity to the enclosures....I'm hoping it is on land at the far end of the car park....Bristol had a similar, smaller gathering last summer, it would be interesting to gather data on stress levels in different species when these events are being run. I for one don't trust the effects on pregnant or nursing animals to be entirely neutral.

I can't believe there's a Barbary lion talk. It's so weird! I don't get why (A) they would still be in denial about it, and (B) Belfast and others are joining them? Maybe that was the deal for getting the moloch gibbons. You should have heckled the keeper. I suppose it's similar to the ocelot release fiasco when they realised quite late on that it might not be appropriate to release generic animals...yet there is still mention of it as one of their success stories. On the whole, though, I still think there's nothing like either of these parks and I hope they keep growing in popularity, regardless of the dodgy talks.
 
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sooty mangabey said:
And of course zoo thousand and eight - a music festival at Port Lympne this summer. Not sure a music festival would be my first choice of activity to rake in a few extra pennies.
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Its not the first- they had one last year or maybe the year before too- so it was obviously successful enough to repeat.
 
barbaries.

The interesting thing is they carry on breeding from them. After the ones that went to Belfast, there was another litter of 3(2.1) and I think there's been another litter more recently still. It all seems totally pointless to me, especially as its now known they are almost certainly not genetically descended from Barbary stock at all.

They have kept the first female cub(Safira) from the current breeding pair and aquired a male for her too. She is a cripple (badly damaged nerve in front leg) and she spins in circles when she walks. I don't think she should be on exhibit really...
 
johnstoni said:
I suppose it's similar to the ocelot release fiasco when they realised quite late on that it might not be appropriate to release generic animals...yet there is still mention of it as one of their success stories. On the whole, though, I still think there's nothing like either of these parks and I hope they keep growing in popularity, regardless of the dodgy talks.
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So did they have hybrid Ocelots? It does say in their guidebook that they have released Ocelots back into the wild :S
 
ashley-h said:
So did they have hybrid Ocelots? It does say in their guidebook that they have released Ocelots back into the wild :S
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I don't think any ocelots in this counrty could be accurately traced to a pure line. I was unaware that Howletts/Pt Lymne had released ocelots into the wild.

Funnily enough I have seen a similar case with The Monkey Sanctuary in Cornwall promote a release a pair of woolly monkeys into Peru (?) along with some ex-pets. Aside from the fact that both died /disappeared soon after release (it was worth it because they were 'free'), the breeding population started with individuals of mixed (at the time) subspecies (now ranked as full species). They also claim to be not a 'zoo'. Thankfully they are moving more to rehabbing ex-pet capuchins...
 
johnstoni said:
You should have heckled the keeper.
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I would never do that, its impolite and not my style... I prefer to wait and have a chat afterward and a keeper is hardly likely to be sympathetic to probing enquiries if you've just given them a hard time...;)
 
Pertinax said:
I would never do that, its impolite and not my style... I prefer to wait and have a chat afterward and a keeper is hardly likely to be sympathetic to probing enquiries if you've just given them a hard time...;)
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Am sure that most of the keepers recognise that evidence points too there breeding programs (Barbary lions) as being a waste of time. However they are unlikely to voice so because they are employed by the park.
 
taun said:
Am sure that most of the keepers recognise that evidence points too there breeding programs (Barbary lions) as being a waste of time. However they are unlikely to voice so because they are employed by the park.
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exactly- it must be rather depressing to have to go through the motions of this scheme if its really as pointless as it seems. I am not sure why Port Lympne are still breeding from their lions either- this seems to be increasing a population to no particular purpose now.
 
Pertinax said:
exactly- it must be rather depressing to have to go through the motions of this scheme if its really as pointless as it seems. I am not sure why Port Lympne are still breeding from their lions either- this seems to be increasing a population to no particular purpose now.
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Am sure there is some insane reasoning! So they came claim more misdirected information. Like them returning Sumatran Rhinos to the wild! (Semi-wild more like it)
 
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numn21 said:
hello, im very intrigued where some of you get your information from?
from curious keeper
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I'm hazarding a guess you may be a curious Howletts or PL keeper? Many people on this forum have been keepers, or still are, or involved in captive animal conservation/management, and will have a certain level of knowledge already, plus if you have a long memory and have read annual reports or IZN over the years you will often remember events no longer publicised by a collection or, in contrast, still very much publicised but incorrectly so.

I think the most critical discussion often happens with collections members have a great deal of respect for, the really bad zoos tend to just be ignored.
 
Pertinax said:
I would never do that, its impolite and not my style... I prefer to wait and have a chat afterward and a keeper is hardly likely to be sympathetic to probing enquiries if you've just given them a hard time...;)
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Oh it was meant entirely tongue in cheek, I was actually heckled by a bunch of creationists during a talk many years ago where I mentioned evolution during a talk. How do you deal with a creationist heckler?! I had no idea.
 
johnstoni said:
Oh it was meant entirely tongue in cheek, I was actually heckled by a bunch of creationists during a talk many years ago where I mentioned evolution during a talk. How do you deal with a creationist heckler?! I had no idea.
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yeah, yeah, its okay, I know it wasn't serious...but if you did it it would ruin the chances of getting any serious information...;)
 
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