Cryptozoology

[Chlidonias]

The burmese python is true, there are pictures & videos (I believe it is more than one python) of them eating alligators.

nanoboy knows this is true. He is trying to use ridiculousness to equate a well-documented true story of private python-keepers in the USA releasing snakes into the Everglades with inconsistent anecdotal stories of pumas being brought over to Australia by private persons and released into the bush.......

Well I know it's not true. You were the one who told me they did it with pumas not black panthers.

perhaps go back and read what I actually wrote on the other thread.

Some Thylacines were almost certainly living well after 1936. Reliable reports from old 'bushmen' who were familiar with the animal when it was still more numerous indicate it was still around in the 1940's and maybe later still, though no tangible evidence was ever produced after 1936. The evidence from DNA'd scats dated from the 1960's seems to indicate it may have been extant later still. The question remains, are they still alive fifty years or so later?

do you actually know the outcome of the DNA studies? The scats were collected by Guiler and it was only his supposition that they were thylacine scats. The DNA testing was being done in early 2007, and I never heard any results (I had a quick search before and couldn't find anything beyond articles reporting it was being done) which suggests to me that the answer was that they were not from thylacines.

 

[Chlidonias]

I quite like the Aboriginal story. I read somewhere (maybe on this same thread!) about Aboriginal stories of huge lizards in FNQ that were probably Komodo dragons. As I probably said then, myths and legends are grounded in facts.

I think you are confounding two different stories. Komodo dragons were mentioned on here at some point regarding "re-wilding" (a concept whereby extinct components of an ecosystem are replaced with living analogues, e.g. extant elephants and cheetahs into North America). There are a couple of vocal advocates of this in Australia who suggest elephants and white rhinos should be released into the outback to control introduced grasses; another part of this is the suggestion that Komodo dragons should be released to control buffalo, as living representatives of Megalania.

However the stories of giant monitors in Queensland are a different and unconnected matter. Many cryptozoologists suggest they actually are surviving Megalania. A few suggest Varanus salvadorii (the New Guinea crocodile monitor) with an otherwise-unknown Australian range. I haven't heard of anyone suggesting actual Komodo dragons though (although it is possible someone has, because it is now believed they or a close relative used to be found in Australia). I like the giant monitor stories, and it would be very cool if Megalania was found alive still. There doesn't seem to be any real reason for it not to be after all (apart from the obvious one of a massive lizard going almost entirely unnoticed except for a handful of dodgy sightings!!)

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I haven't heard of anyone suggesting actual Komodo dragons though (although it is possible someone has, because it is now believed they or a close relative used to be found in Australia)

Current scientific thought is that not only were Komodo dragons once found in Australia, but that this is actually where the species originated, and the extant populations are relicts which just happened to survive to the present day.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

nanoboy knows this is true. He is trying to use ridiculousness to equate a well-documented true story of private python-keepers in the USA releasing snakes into the Everglades with inconsistent anecdotal stories of pumas being brought over to Australia by private persons and released into the bush.......

Actually, this is a 100% known fact. Today, pythons and many other introduced species of snakes, fishes, and, to a lesser extant, mammals are breeding in the Southeastern U.S. states and the pythons are migrating and expanding their range. Burmese Pyhtons and tegus are now becoming an everyday problem in places like Florida and Texas and some of the bigger snakes have killed alligators. I don't know why you are saying this is false because it definetly isn't. Just like there are invasive reptiles and mammals in New Zealand, Australia, and Southeast Asia, there are invasive pythons in Florida. I have many relatives living in Florida and Puerto Rico and anyone of them can tell you about it.

 

[jbnbsn99]

Reread what Chlidonias actually wrote.

 

[tschandler71]

We have Cougars and bears in the Southern Appalachians as well.

Also not really cryptozoology but more just fascinating our Coyote are bigger than Western Coyote. They have evolved very rapidly in larger more aggressive CoyWolves (with coyote domestic dog wolf and red wolf genes) that take deer instead of small jackal like Coyote out west that take rodent. I would venture to guess they will soon be speciated into a "Eastern Wolf"

 

[tamarin]

i have observed that many prehistoric animals is also in the cryptids like Megalania prisca,Megalodon or Giant Ground Sloth . many people said that they had seen them . there are Alleged sightings in the South American Amazon rainforest for the giant ground sloth, megalania considered by some to be still alive, possibly as the Kumi Lizard and megalodon considered by some to still exist

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Actually, this is a 100% known fact. Today, pythons and many other introduced species of snakes, fishes, and, to a lesser extant, mammals are breeding in the Southeastern U.S. states and the pythons are migrating and expanding their range. Burmese Pyhtons and tegus are now becoming an everyday problem in places like Florida and Texas and some of the bigger snakes have killed alligators. I don't know why you are saying this is false because it definetly isn't. Just like there are invasive reptiles and mammals in New Zealand, Australia, and Southeast Asia, there are invasive pythons in Florida. I have many relatives living in Florida and Puerto Rico and anyone of them can tell you about it.

I'm sorry Childonias I completely misread what you wrote. I fault for skim-reading.
Thanks for the heads up jbnbsn99
I feel kind of stupid now.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

i have observed that many prehistoric animals is also in the cryptids like Megalania prisca,Megalodon or Giant Ground Sloth . many people said that they had seen them . there are Alleged sightings in the South American Amazon rainforest for the giant ground sloth, megalania considered by some to be still alive, possibly as the Kumi Lizard and megalodon considered by some to still exist

Woolly Mammoths, Elasmatheriums (sort-of like a larger woolly rhino), and sauropod and t-rex like dinosaurs have also been reported. Same with Pteradactyls. Many non-prehistoric, extinct creatures have been reported-Thylacines, Steller Sea Cows, Javan&Caspian Tigers, Caribbean Monk Seals, Honshu Wolves, Eastern Cougars, ect. Many believe Bigfoots are prehistoric animals (since before we were humans we were a Sasquatch-type creature).

 

[mazfc]

Woolly Mammoths, Elasmatheriums (sort-of like a larger woolly rhino), and sauropod and t-rex like dinosaurs have also been reported. Same with Pteradactyls. Many non-prehistoric, extinct creatures have been reported-Thylacines, Steller Sea Cows, Javan&Caspian Tigers, Caribbean Monk Seals, Honshu Wolves, Eastern Cougars, ect. Many believe Bigfoots are prehistoric animals (since before we were humans we were a Sasquatch-type creature).

There were many hominid species around before and with homosapians. The current theory seems to be that us and Neanderthals were two off-shoots of a common ancestor.

 

[Chlidonias]

Woolly Mammoths, Elasmatheriums (sort-of like a larger woolly rhino), and sauropod and t-rex like dinosaurs have also been reported. Same with Pteradactyls. Many non-prehistoric, extinct creatures have been reported-Thylacines, Steller Sea Cows, Javan&Caspian Tigers, Caribbean Monk Seals, Honshu Wolves, Eastern Cougars, ect. Many believe Bigfoots are prehistoric animals (since before we were humans we were a Sasquatch-type creature).

just out of curiosity, do you believe that all these examples are still alive?

 

[Pertinax]

do you actually know the outcome of the DNA studies? The scats were collected by Guiler and it was only his supposition that they were thylacine scats. The DNA testing was being done in early 2007, and I never heard any results (I had a quick search before and couldn't find anything beyond articles reporting it was being done) which suggests to me that the answer was that they were not from thylacines.

No I don't. You may be correct in your analysis of the outcome. I did say 'seem' and 'may' but if it hasn't been affirmed that they were from Thylacine that is a wrong assumption. And I have not heard of any result either.

Its now thought some of Eric Guiler's other suppositions were incorrect too. He always maintained that the last Thylacine(Benjamin) in the Hobart Zoo was a survivor of the family group captured by Mullins in 1925, so was a record 11-12 years old when it died in 1936. In fact its virtually proven now it was a male caught in 1933 by Elias Churchill, as it had a snare mark on its hind leg as described by David Fleay and also evident in photos. Whereas the 1925 young were in the mother's pouch when she was caught. So it only lived three years in the Zoo. Fleay also stated its sex as male and that has now been proven also. See the excellent 'Thylacine Museum' website for details.

Regarding the date of extinction, there seem to be three alternatives held by various people;

1. It became extinct when the last one died in the Zoo.

2. A few individuals hung on in the wild for another decade or two before it became extinct.

3. It is still in existence today.

After many years of following this story I think I would lean toward No 2. as the most likely.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

There were many hominid species around before and with homosapians. The current theory seems to be that us and Neanderthals were two off-shoots of a common ancestor.

A Bigfoot-like ancestor...

just out of curiosity, do you believe that all these examples are still alive?

Well firt off, look at my name!
I believe that if Ice Age hunters didn't hunt them, Woolly Mammoths and mabye Elasmatheriums would still be alive. I think it would be cool if they survived but I doubt it.
The dinosaurs are definetly Extinct. Their relatives may still be living in the form of birds and reptiles but they are, unfortunetly, a long gone great race of reptilians.
I don't know much about the stories of Steller Sea Cows or Honshu Wolves (or the other wolf subspecies native in to Japan that's still said to be alive) so I can't really say weither or not I think they're still alive or not. It would be amazingly awesome if they managed to survive (especially the Steller Sea Cow).
Caribbean Monk Seals probably are Extinct but there's good video evidence (or is it something else...).
I believe when people find Big Cat tracks on Javan, they are finding Javan Leopard tracks and mistaking them for Javan Tigers unfortunetly. I would love nothing more them for all tiger subspecies to still be out and about. I believe a few Caspian Tigers may have survived until today out in the far deserts of Iran and such.
Living in a town that has seen cougars every now and then and having an incident with a large black cat down my very stree, I believe that some Eastern Cougars still exsist. Most Cougar sightings are probably escaped animals form private collections or the occasional wanderer (although I don't think any wanderer has made it down to Connecticut) but there still are those few. It is believed that a relic population of 50 lives in the Canadian portion of the Appalachian Mountains.

Fleay also stated its sex as male and that has now been proven also.

Um it is actually widely believed that Benjamin was a female because of the lack of male genetalia in all photos and video evidence and without a body it can never be proven. I don't know if this part of the story is true, but I heard that after "Ben" died they threw his/her body in the dumpster and destroyed the exhibit.

 

[jbnbsn99]

A Bigfoot-like ancestor...



Well firt off, look at my name!
I believe that if Ice Age hunters didn't hunt them, Woolly Mammoths and mabye Elasmatheriums would still be alive. I think it would be cool if they survived but I doubt it.
The dinosaurs are definetly Extinct. Their relatives may still be living in the form of birds and reptiles but they are, unfortunetly, a long gone great race of reptilians.
I don't know much about the stories of Steller Sea Cows or Honshu Wolves (or the other wolf subspecies native in to Japan that's still said to be alive) so I can't really say weither or not I think they're still alive or not. It would be amazingly awesome if they managed to survive (especially the Steller Sea Cow).
Caribbean Monk Seals probably are Extinct but there's good video evidence (or is it something else...).
I believe when people find Big Cat tracks on Javan, they are finding Javan Leopard tracks and mistaking them for Javan Tigers unfortunetly. I would love nothing more them for all tiger subspecies to still be out and about. I believe a few Caspian Tigers may have survived until today out in the far deserts of Iran and such.
Living in a town that has seen cougars every now and then and having an incident with a large black cat down my very stree, I believe that some Eastern Cougars still exsist. Most Cougar sightings are probably escaped animals form private collections or the occasional wanderer (although I don't think any wanderer has made it down to Connecticut) but there still are those few. It is believed that a relic population of 50 lives in the Canadian portion of the Appalachian Mountains.



Um it is actually widely believed that Benjamin was a female because of the lack of male genetalia in all photos and video evidence and without a body it can never be proven. I don't know if this part of the story is true, but I heard that after "Ben" died they threw his/her body in the dumpster and destroyed the exhibit.

1. There's no Bigfoot (or Yeti, Yowie, Alma, etc.). Accept reality, please.
2. Caspian Tigers do indeed still exist. They're called Amur Tigers now. (Two subspecies have been proven to be identical).
3. The Eastern Cougar was probably never a valid subspecies. American mammals have far, far too many vague subspecies.
4. Dinosaurs are not extinct. Non-avian dinosaurs are, but not avian dinosaurs.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

1. There's no Bigfoot (or Yeti, Yowie, Alma, etc.). Accept reality, please.
2. Caspian Tigers do indeed still exist. They're called Amur Tigers now. (Two subspecies have been proven to be identical).
3. The Eastern Cougar was probably never a valid subspecies. American mammals have far, far too many vague subspecies.
4. Dinosaurs are not extinct. Non-avian dinosaurs are, but not avian dinosaurs.

1. I never said Bigfoot was real. All I said is that we came from a Bigfoot type creature and there have been many others in the past but, by now, I don't know if something that big could continue to hide (but it's possible). Bigfoot is scientificly possible but I don't think it is real. Perhaps in the past it was but I doubt today.
2. Have they. I knew they were close but I didn't know that they were declared identical. I thought Amur Tigers were bigger then Caspians. I can see them being very close related but not the same subspecies. Amurs live in Siberia and Caspians lived in the desert. Besides, the two's territories were seperated. I think Caspians came from Amurs but are their own subspecies that went Extinct before it could seperate enough for it to be easy to tell them apart.
3. They may not have but I find it strange that there are like 5 subspecies in South America and only two in North America (Costa Rican Cougar and North American Mountain Lion). I think the North American subspecies are Costa Rican Cougars (Puma Concolor Costaricensis), Western North American Mountain Lion (Puma Concolor Cougar), Eastern Cougar (Puma Concolor Schorgeri), and Florida Panther (Puma Concolor Coryi).
4. By avian dinosaurs you mean birds?

 

[Chlidonias]

Regarding the date of extinction, there seem to be three alternatives held by various people;

1. It became extinct when the last one died in the Zoo.

2. A few individuals hung on in the wild for another decade or two before it became extinct.

3. It is still in existence today.

After many years of following this story I think I would lean toward No 2. as the most likely.

as do I. It is reasonably unlikely that Benjamin was the very last one, and it is highly unlikely that any still survive today, so by default that only leaves the second option in my opinion.

 

[Chlidonias]

Many believe Bigfoots are prehistoric animals (since before we were humans we were a Sasquatch-type creature).

............................

A Bigfoot-like ancestor...

............................

All I said is that we came from a Bigfoot type creature and there have been many others in the past .......

humans did not have a Bigfoot-type ancestor. There have probably never been hominids of the sizes that bigfoot and yeti are supposed to reach. Gigantopithecus is known almost entirely from teeth and jawbones, it was not a hominid, and it is highly unlikely to have been an upright-walking creature: and it is any case not even close to being an ancestor of humans.

 

[CambsVet]

1. I never said Bigfoot was real. All I said is that we came from a Bigfoot type creature and there have been many others in the past but, by now, I don't know if something that big could continue to hide (but it's possible). Bigfoot is scientificly possible but I don't think it is real. Perhaps in the past it was but I doubt today.
2. Have they. I knew they were close but I didn't know that they were declared identical. I thought Amur Tigers were bigger then Caspians. I can see them being very close related but not the same subspecies. Amurs live in Siberia and Caspians lived in the desert. Besides, the two's territories were seperated. I think Caspians came from Amurs but are their own subspecies that went Extinct before it could seperate enough for it to be easy to tell them apart.
3. They may not have but I find it strange that there are like 5 subspecies in South America and only two in North America (Costa Rican Cougar and North American Mountain Lion). I think the North American subspecies are Costa Rican Cougars (Puma Concolor Costaricensis), Western North American Mountain Lion (Puma Concolor Cougar), Eastern Cougar (Puma Concolor Schorgeri), and Florida Panther (Puma Concolor Coryi).
4. By avian dinosaurs you mean birds?

So Ive been reading thread and find it all very interesting, and I'm not as knowledge able as the rest of you but would like to give my thoughts on the matter.

1. I don't think there is a bigfoot out there, but hey I could be wrong. I just find it hard to think something that big could hide in the USA. Maybe if it was a jungle species from Bhutan etc then possibly but highly unlikely.

2. I think that the Amur and the Caspian were the same subspecies but on the way to becoming distinct groups due to breeding isolation. The mitochondrial work done in 2009 by Oxford uni et al showed there was only 1 nucleotide difference between the two. So I would say that is far to simillar to be classed as distinct. ( Although it was only mitochondrial not nuclear DNA gathered) The paper can be viewed on this link. I dont know if its viewable to all?

PLOS ONE: Mitochondrial Phylogeography Illuminates the Origin of the Extinct Caspian Tiger and Its Relationship to the Amur Tiger

3. I've recently been doing some reading on Pumas and although Im no expert I think probably there is only the one North American species. I dont think there has been enough breeding isolation and pressure for distinct subspecies to arise as of yet. I Florida example was only cut off for 100-200 years from the Texas population and really and significant change in genome in a slow breeding animal such as a puma will probably need alot more than that. (Unless you founding population is very small) A paper that you may have seen is found here. Again I dont know if access is avalible to everyone as Im logged on to my uni network.

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/3/186.full.pdf

4. Dinos have gone the way of the Dodo But cool relics remain like the Hoatzin!

 

[ThylacineAlive]

humans did not have a Bigfoot-type ancestor. There have probably never been hominids of the sizes that bigfoot and yeti are supposed to reach. Gigantopithecus is known almost entirely from teeth and jawbones, it was not a hominid, and it is highly unlikely to have been an upright-walking creature: and it is any case not even close to being an ancestor of humans.

I ment that, at some point, before we were humans, we were some upwalking hairy ape man thing (correct me if I'm wrong I'm not reallu an expert on this) and there must have been other kinds of upright walking apes in the distant past (or not so distant...)

 

[Pertinax]

.

um it is actually widely believed that Benjamin was a female because of the lack of male genetalia in all photos and video evidence and without a body it can never be proven.

Look in the 'Thylacine Museum' website- the section on 'Benjamin- the Last Thylacine at Hobart Zoo'.

In 2010 frame by frame analysis of the 1933 David Fleay film revealed the scrotal sac to be evident in one of the sitting/yawning shots of the Thylacine, proving 'he' was male.