I think its very valid Taun, I would of thought that it would be fair to ask if her boss was aware, or indeed in support of her posting such images. Its not a dig at her, its a genuine question, one I think is relevant.
I think that we here at ZooChat should not exaggerate our own importance or the impact that we may have on the world. We are - let´s face it - an extremely small minority of nerds, about 2000+ of whom only 700 are "currently active", to put in in numbers. Then there are an unknown number of non-members who visit the site.
But then there are sex billions of other people out there, totally unaware of our existence and 99,99999% of them, I suggest, would be totally uninterested should they by any chance become aware of us.
In our small community of "nerds" (as I put it), our opinions differ to the extreme! Remember - one of the the undoubtably most knowledgable members (but also one of the most rude...) was recently banned from the site... I am, by the way, sure that many professionals here at the site consider me a pain in the ass and a totally no-good in general...
What I am trying to say is that I do not think that individual posts or photos here at the site really carry much importance whatsoever. I DO love this site- it is in fact the only internet site that I visit every day, ever since I discovered it about a year ago.
But again: let´s not try to fool ourselves that what we write here makes much difference in the real world... and therefore: don´t get to upset by Kate´s cuddling with the lion.
In 2002 I was taken to the back of the lion exhibit at Frankfurt Zoo. A part of the back had wire mesh and next to it a lioness was resting. The keeper told me I could put my finger through the mesh and give her a scratch on the back. The lion didn't even move. Of course she knew of the presence of the keeper with me and maybe thought it was he scratching her. It was an experience to touch a lion Two other lions were nearby, including a lioness the keeper said was much more aggressive and which he said he would never have allowed me to scratch.
In Kate's support, if you have a look at zookeeper profile photos on Facebook (you can find them for instance through zookeeper-dedicated groups) chances are greater than not that almost every keeper is in the presence of an animal. He or she may be holding it, petting it, feeding it, you name it. It shows dedication to their job in my view and the interest and love keepers must have for their charges. Those photos are in the public domain.
Kate is not working for MI5 (the British Secret Service) and can surely post photos from her job. Yes I know it is a lion, Kate also knows it is a lion. But she a) hand-reared this very animal, and b) has worked as lion keeper for years and must have learned a thing or two during that time, about lions in general as well as about this very animal. I’m totally confident in that she knows what she is doing.
But before I get bashed, I get everyone's point here!
Trust has to start somewhere, and there are plenty of risks in this world orders of magnitude greater than what Kate is shown doing in the photo.
Kate, along those lines... Please ignore the "what the blazes are you doing?!" posts. I happen to think it's a terrific photo, and I'm greatly pleased you know your cats well enough to be confident in doing what you did.
For the record: I had a similar experience with a golden eagle a year or so back. Fifteen pounds of pure feathered attitude I'd never met before, but I felt confident enough to hold her on my glove for a picture.
Sure, fifteen pounds of raptor is a lot smaller than a couple hundred pounds of lion. However, an angry or startled eagle can inflict a great deal of damage on a human if they put their mind to it, damage that's all out of proportion to their size.
Would I do it again? Sure, if I knew the bird involved was relatively stable. Like I said, trust has to start somewhere.
Trust has to start somewhere, and there are plenty of risks in this world orders of magnitude greater than what Kate is shown doing in the photo.
Kate, along those lines... Please ignore the "what the blazes are you doing?!" posts. I happen to think it's a terrific photo, and I'm greatly pleased you know your cats well enough to be confident in doing what you did.
For the record: I had a similar experience with a golden eagle a year or so back. Fifteen pounds of pure feathered attitude I'd never met before, but I felt confident enough to hold her on my glove for a picture.
Sure, fifteen pounds of raptor is a lot smaller than a couple hundred pounds of lion. However, an angry or startled eagle can inflict a great deal of damage on a human if they put their mind to it, damage that's all out of proportion to their size.
Would I do it again? Sure, if I knew the bird involved was relatively stable. Like I said, trust has to start somewhere.
What a tame one? You only need to hang onto their feet (as you do with the jessies) and the bird couldnt harm you, all the power in an Eagle is in their feet. Hang onto Kamals feet and see what he does with his mouth!!
Sorry if I seem a little "off" but I find the whole thing quite distasteful, and it doesnt (in my opinion) shed a good light on a Zoo at all.
Trust has to start somewhere, and there are plenty of risks in this world orders of magnitude greater than what Kate is shown doing in the photo.
Kate, along those lines... Please ignore the "what the blazes are you doing?!" posts. I happen to think it's a terrific photo, and I'm greatly pleased you know your cats well enough to be confident in doing what you did.
For the record: I had a similar experience with a golden eagle a year or so back. Fifteen pounds of pure feathered attitude I'd never met before, but I felt confident enough to hold her on my glove for a picture.
Sure, fifteen pounds of raptor is a lot smaller than a couple hundred pounds of lion. However, an angry or startled eagle can inflict a great deal of damage on a human if they put their mind to it, damage that's all out of proportion to their size.
Would I do it again? Sure, if I knew the bird involved was relatively stable. Like I said, trust has to start somewhere.
What a tame one? You only need to hang onto their feet (as you do with the jessies) and the bird couldnt harm you, all the power in an Eagle is in their feet. Hang onto Kamals feet and see what he does with his mouth!! Can you ever recall anyone jumping into an Eagle exhibit and getting killed? Can you ever (to go by Kates words) remember anyone leaping in a Tapir exhibit and getting mauled or killed? Now think about how many times people jump in with big Cats, and look at the picture of the keeper promoting a Lion who you can make a fuss of and really think about the impression that gives to some people, particularly children who look at these forums.
Sorry if I seem a little "off" but I find the whole thing quite distasteful, and it doesnt (in my opinion) shed a good light on a Zoo at all.
I originally jumped into this discussion because I have never like the idea of non-zoo people telling zoo staff how to do their job. Especially when the opinions are based upon a single photograph with no background information. Which is essentially what I said in my first post.
The thing about opinions is that everbody has one (or more). And in a forum like this, unless it's obviously offensive, everyone is entitled to express their opinions - no matter how right or wrong they might be.
But the really good thing about other people's opinions is that we don't have to pay any attention to them if we don't want to.
I originally jumped into this discussion because I have never like the idea of non-zoo people telling zoo staff how to do their job. Especially when the opinions are based upon a single photograph with no background information. Which is essentially what I said in my first post.
The thing about opinions is that everbody has one (or more). And in a forum like this, unless it's obviously offensive, everyone is entitled to express their opinions - no matter how right or wrong they might be.
But the really good thing about other people's opinions is that we don't have to pay any attention to them if we don't want to.
But we shouldnt keep bashing other people's idea's because for one thing it is rude and for another dis-respectful. KateA has done nothing wrong at all.And if were to be Zoo Director of Bristol i would be very pleased that keepers under my care when they had a free break would go and spend time with their animals other than checking their emails on there I-phones for instance!
If Kamal had not of liked, he would of let KateA know.
Regarding you comment DawnB about children seeing these pictures and thinking them as acceptable.I'm 15 years old so that does make me a child i have had a passion for lions for aslong as i can remember and i know the difference between good and bad. I have known many keepers and zoo owners over the years so i have quite a good knowledge about basic lion behavior as it is everything i have dedicated my life to so far.I have seen alot more things through this forum such as The 'Lion Man' dragging a young male lion down with a rope round its neck and i do think that is not acceptable but a keeper just coming to the fence for a quick hello to a lion she's working with i think is acceptable.Most other young member's of this site know for their own what they think is right or wrong most members are not just led on by what they see.
We all have a right to think for ourselves whether it is right or wrong or not and we all know your opinion so can you please stop bashing other people's ideas and go onto another thread.
Sorry to say it, but i feel that it had to be said.
Kind Regards,
