I'm sure that snow leopards do like their privacy, and there are also many other animals in zoos that require hiding opportunities away from the scrutiny of the general public. I'm beginning to think that it would be best if all zoos copied the 2 acre RSCC and built thick grey slabs of concrete around their animal exhibits. Wouldn't it be great if there were a series of blocks that represented the different biomes of the world? The grey ones could be for Himalayan animals, green blocks of concrete could be for tropical animals, and then ugly yellow blocks could be for the public bathrooms. There would have to be a lot of quality signage so that visitors didn't wander into the snow leopard enclosure by mistake, as the hideous set of walls looks quite familiar to many restrooms.
Yes, I can tell you're being sarcastic. Again, coming from someone who's never been to the facility, I'll assign as much credibility to your comments as your obviously in-depth knowledge of the facility warrants.
But aside from the sight-line issues, which are a reasonable area of animal husbandry and something that can indeed be debated by people who actually know something of the species and specimens in question (oops, I guess that'll keep @Dan and @snowleopard out of the conversation), to me, solid walls vs. ones that have fake rockwork or murals is an entirely aesthetic choice on the part of the enclosure designers. Animals don't care. And if you think animals are "fooled" by pretty murals in any way, you really don't know enough to comment.
Another brilliant idea would be to walk the snow leopards around on leashes. I know that the pumas might get jealous, but their exhibit is even worse than the snow leopard one so they shouldn't get too offended.
Droll. Particularly for someone who's never seen the pumas or the enclosure, or has any understanding why there are walls in the places that there are for that particular enclosure.
Snowleopard, the only differences that I can see between you and @Dan are that you don't compare everything you see to a Canadian (Swedish in the case of Dan) zoo, and you try to use sarcasm to make un-funny jokes. The same level of knowledge of the facility, species, and specimens in question. Don't you have anything better to do than slag off somewhere you're never going to go, that has a pretty good reputation in the zoo world?
Well your reasoning was very good, and I agree with it. I'm sure the clouded leopard felt very secure and has loads of privacy, same goes for the snow leopards.
And the comment made by snowleopard says to me that he doesn't care how secure it makes the animals feel, it doesn't look nice so it shouldn't be there. I hope I'm wrong in thinking that
Well your reasoning was very good, and I agree with it. I'm sure the clouded leopard felt very secure and has loads of privacy, same goes for the snow leopards.
From what the keepers at RSCC have told me, the clouded leopard enclosure had a couple of other issues as well. On two sides are prey animals (gibbons and lemurs), so having walls afforded some privacy to them as well. The other wall faces an exposed farmland, and in the winter gets some pretty fierce winds.
So I think as the keepers explained it, giving the clouded leopard an enclosure with three walled sides would protect it from the English wind, provide it a sense of security and support its secretive behavior, and also provide the least problems for the other animals at the facility (not every animal at RSCC is a cat, as other photos have clearly indicated).
That's one reason why I take offense at the members of the forum here who make comments about a facility they've never been to. If you didn't see the farm next to it, and didn't feel the winter wind blowing off it, how would you explain the third side? If you aren't able to consider the site in toto, how would you know that there are lemurs and flamingos on the other side of one of the walls and gibbons on the other side of the other? You wouldn't.
Indeed, people seem to think the clouded leopard enclosure is terrible and and offers no privacy, and yet nobody has ever seen him, so it must be doing something right.
There are 2 sides to every story, and I know sometimes you see a bad photo and you just say what comes to mind, but at least the few people who've visited it have told the other sides to the story, and it would appear that everyone who has visited seems to think the same thing.
Indeed, people seem to think the clouded leopard enclosure is terrible and and offers no privacy, and yet nobody has ever seen him, so it must be doing something right.
There are 2 sides to every story, and I know sometimes you see a bad photo and you just say what comes to mind, but at least the few people who've visited it have told the other sides to the story, and it would appear that everyone who has visited seems to think the same thing.
Hear hear! Pictures can be deceiving, and I've noticed that everybody who's had questions about the facility, after visiting, comes away with a positive impression. That's why I find the attitude and constant sniping of people who have never been there, and have no intention of going, so irritating.
I've seen the Cloudy, but only at an evening fundraiser that the RSCT hosted. Looked like he was in perfect shape, and as soon as he noticed he was being watched, he slinked away and hid completely. So he was behaving exactly normally for a clouded leopard!
I enclosed one more photo which shows the other end of this enclosure (You also can see this cage in the main photo).
Kirgiz, a new sub-adult male from Szeged Zoo, Hungary in the separated corridor, and an adult female in top of the artificial rock (look how they show interest for each other). Well, the inhabitants are being visible in this photo for comparison so You can make more proper judgement about the size of the enclosure. It is a really small enclosure but I can confirm that the photo shows it still smaller than it actually is.
I would like to let You all know that You can see the whole enclosure in the main photo (the only part which is not visible is a small area on the left, behind the artificial rock in the front, left hand side, so the rock is not directly connected with the wall in this part of the enclosure). The main photo in comparison with this attachment was taken from the better viewing point of this enclosure which is not accessible for visitors at the moment due to construction work.
It seems to be the case that people are selectively viewing these images in order to have opinions about them.
Well done RSCC for some impressive rockwork, which admittedly creates some secure vantage points where the snow leopards can rest, well camouflaged.
However, if the issue of the walls is to do with creating a visual barrier between adjacent species in their exhibits......isn't the issue that the zoo is slightly too compact? Wouldn't it have been nice to wait until they had expanded from 1.5 acres before introducing big cat species?
the substrate visually suggests some of the ground high up on the himalayas, (anyone who has seen footage of snow leopards hunting will know what I mean about slopes of loose stones), but again wouldn't it have been nice to vary the substrate to give the animals a choice of what they walk or sit on?
Its all very well getting caught up in whats natural for these cats, but Southern England experiences different temperatures to the himalayas, and the enclosure looks like it would trap heat rather efficiently. Someone was saying the walls are there to stop the harsh kent winds blowing through the enclosures?! Need I say anything about that?
Although we all know that snow leopards would rather be bounding round mountain slopes hunting markhor, the animals inhabiting that cage have no concept of the life their wild ancestors lead. Dull as it may seem, captivity-born big cats have fairly similar likes in terms of vantage points, comfortable wooden shelves or platforms high up in the enclosures, hiding places and the choice between exposed/shaded, warm/cool.
We argue about the style of exhibit as if the owners 'meant well' in terms of what was best for the cats. As is brilliantly demonstrated by the clouded leopard/puma cage, you don't achieve that kind of expensive-looking minimalist finish without wanting something designed to your own aesthetic taste.
And yes, the North Chinese Leopard at Howletts does indeed have to put up with the same amount of floor space. But in the cool of the woods, with plenty of climbing space, set away from the public or other exhibits, is this apparently unnatural-looking wood and wire cage no better than the RSCC way?
Snowleopard, the only differences that I can see between you and @Dan are that you don't compare everything you see to a Canadian (Swedish in the case of Dan) zoo ... The same level of knowledge of the facility, species, and specimens in question...QUOTE]
Please note that I have no "nationalist agenda" in the debates here at ZooChat. AS IT HAPPENS, it seems as if Sweden is a forerunner when it comes to rules and regulations on zoo matters.
In many other issues I am highly critical of the country that I live in, but in the particular questions that are relevant on ZooChat, Sweden does seem to to better than other countries.
Again: most exhibits/enclosures shown here at ZooChat would be illegal in Sweden, due to the fact that they would be to small. I am truly amazed that this simple statement of mine can stir up so much hostility at this site.
