I hope Matadi doesnt go. I was looking forward to seeing him grow up into a silverback. Is it definate that he will go or might they try and get him back in with oumbi etc?
I hope Matadi doesnt go. I was looking forward to seeing him grow up into a silverback. Is it definate that he will go or might they try and get him back in with oumbi etc?
I hope Matadi doesnt go. I was looking forward to seeing him grow up into a silverback. Is it definate that he will go or might they try and get him back in with oumbi etc?
I didn't say 'Matadi' will go to Paignton- it is just one option for them. However, they may be reluctant for him to leave Twycross so might consider other options. I doubt very much they will try to get him back in his own group- it is very unlikely to work after this seperation.
They might try getting him in with the two older females,Bongo & Biddy and then see what happens when/if Boulas, the other silverback arrives. Boulas is somewhat older than Oumbi and was good with the younger male in Belfast, so he may be more tolerant with him.(or not..)
'Matadi' is old enough to leave his mother if he has to and I'm sure he would integrate okay with Paignton's males if that happened. A final option - as he is genetically valuable-is to get him a female partner(or two) and keep him at Twycross- they do have room- where he now is in Joe's old quarters.
I hope they do move him to Paignton, just to give him sometime with a silverback. Hopefully in that time he will grow up to be a good silverback himself for introduction to a breeding group of females.
I am not sure whether living with an older male has any real effect on a male's behaviour longterm- though obviously it teaches him respect etc while he is young. But his overall behaviour as an adult silverback will be decided by his temperament(which is genetic) and his social experience generally ie. whether mother or handraised.
Many young males captured from the wild in the 1960-80's period have grown up in zoos with no older animals or a silverback present, yet they still turned into excellent group leaders themselves when they were adult. Some of them are still around.
I didn't say 'Matadi' will go to Paignton- it is just one option for them. However, they may be reluctant for him to leave Twycross so might consider other options. I doubt very much they will try to get him back in his own group- it is very unlikely to work after this seperation.
They might try getting him in with the two older females,Bongo & Biddy and then see what happens when/if Boulas, the other silverback arrives. Boulas is somewhat older than Oumbi and was good with the younger male in Belfast, so he may be more tolerant with him.(or not..)
'Matadi' is old enough to leave his mother if he has to and I'm sure he would integrate okay with Paignton's males if that happened. A final option - as he is genetically valuable-is to get him a female partner(or two) and keep him at Twycross- they do have room- where he now is in Joe's old quarters.
I think the final idea you have about them getting matadi a female or two in joes old quarters would be a great idea. Any females free at the moment anyone know of?? Twycross would then have 3 groups of western gorillas.
I think the final idea you have about them getting matadi a female or two in joes old quarters would be a great idea. Any females free at the moment anyone know of?? Twycross would then have 3 groups of western gorillas.
It's a great pity that Matadi has been separated from the group, but I guess that it must have become unavoidable because the risk to his health and safety had become too great.
I think the important thing is to integrate him with other gorillas as soon as possible. The Paignton bachelor group (or a similar group elsewhere) seems the best option to me. I don't like the idea of mixing him with young females, as I think they would be better left with their mothers or in the groups in which they are currently living. As a wilder idea, could he be integrated into one of the groups without silverbacks at Howletts? Bitam's old females have offspring of similar age, and they might adopt him particularly as the old cages they live in can be subdivided for introductions and separations.
could he be integrated into one of the groups without silverbacks at Howletts? Bitam's old females have offspring of similar age, and they might adopt him particularly as the old cages they live in can be subdivided for introductions and separations.
If they can't keep him themselves, sending him to Howletts might be a preferable option to Paignton. As he's genetically very valuable( only surviving offspring of father Sekondi who in turn was only offspring of w/c parents) I think it would be preferable for him to continue to have contact with both sexes/females to ensure he doesn't become 'odd' (!!) Alternatively Howletts(or the EEP?) might be prepared to send a suitable-aged female to join him at Twycross. In this instance I feel a 'pair' situation would be okay as where he is now there are also other Gorillas next door they could contact/see and touch and maybe even integrate with over time.
Strange as it may seem, I would prefer to see him stay where he is(with companionship) than go to a male group, -as that might knock his confidence more still.
The only way they are likely to source a female for him(if they wanted to go down that route) is either from Howletts, who they seem to have good relations with- or the EEP though that might be more difficult as you are correct that available females are rare.
I would actually favour this in Matadi's particular case though, for the genetic reasons I stated above.
And the title of this thread should perhaps now be changed to;
