I think we all agree with what you're saying but they must at some point start looking at the primates and the exciting thing is that if Twycross see Himalaya as a benchmark for future developments then we should expect to see some really high quality exhibits. This possibility has never existed at Twycross before, bland brick or wood clad enclosures with little imagination has been the recipe until now.
I do hope you're right Ruby ...... but ...... why this move towards high quality exhibits couldn't have been started by getting rid of the worst existing exhibits first I don't know ?!
Now correct me if I`m wrong but to me you pay at the entrance of a zoo before going in,now I`m pretty certain that you don`t pay inside this building at all but in the same old wonderfull porto cabins that you always have.So to my mind this building is nothing more than a Tourist Visitor Centre which you have to pass through to get to the zoo entrance.
This is correct, but if thoiught about, people visiting the zoo will use it but people may also come in to use the food court area and have a coffee etc which brings in additional income for the zoo.
To GillP, yes this is a contradiction of world primate centre however the money for it was obtained from the East Mids Development Agency or something, I cant remeb so that might have had something to do with leopaads going in.
We need to look at this as a positive in terms of what we can expect from the zoo in the future. The elephant walkway and carnivore section is also coming along great now and will give the zoo another great exhibit. The large elephant statue in Himilaya currently is going to go near the walkway which wil be a real wow factor.
Twycross is moving forward and we should all view it as a positive move in the right direction instead of keep niggling. Obviously, we have to take into account budgets, and the centre was funded, the elephant walkway and carnivore section may not cost no way near as much as refurbing the entire chimp enclosure. the extra revenue brought in by Himilaya and the carnivore section may enable this to happen.
We should also rember that Twycross sent their 2 lionesses to Dudley as they felt their current enclisure was not adequete so are rennovating it for Hyenas etc. When I visted on Friday, the languars have been moved around whilst their outdoot areas are landscaped and rennovated so things are changing. People need to give Twycross a chance as they are moving in positive way for the future.
Now correct me if I`m wrong but to me you pay at the entrance of a zoo before going in,now I`m pretty certain that you don`t pay inside this building at all but in the same old wonderfull porto cabins that you always have.So to my mind this building is nothing more than a Tourist Visitor Centre which you have to pass through to get to the zoo entrance.
You don't pay in this centre you pay at booths on the other side of it but they are not portakabins and the area is now a properly constructed entrance, not two booths stuck in the middle of a road. The centre is supposedly shared with the national forest but it is very much zoo orientated and will massively improve visitor experience and increase revenues. There are things that have baffled me about Twycross and that I disagree with but people do seem to enjoy giving the place a really hard time. I'm not a zoo expert but I've been to Chester and some of the other good zoos in the UK and abroad and this building and it's exhibits are as good as anything that I've seen.
That is only because there is much which is open to criticism at Twycross, not for any other reason I can think of. The curious past development of the Zoo with the simple, unattractive enclosures and wealth of brickwork, and metal in many older enclosures has led to the present state of the contrasting 'old and new' styles at Twycross.
If they are serious about upgrading the whole Zoo now to this new and higher standard then I applaud the decision, it is better late than never! In the case of the Primate enclosures, I also hope perhaps they visit Apenheul Primate Park in Holland, which I think deserves the tag of 'World Primate Centre' far more than Twycross, to see how captive primates really should/can be kept, before they design any further enclosures.
It does indeed feel like such a contradiction in terms. If an institution is describing itself as the world primate centre, I'd expect that not only would it have an excellent collection of primates, but it would also have excellent accommodation for them too ..... and, excellent understanding of how best to keep the various species. I'm nothing like an expert, but that doesn't mean keeping many chimps in 2s and 3s !!
Unfortunately Twycross have still not yet shaken off the old style husbandry, buildings etc of the old Badham/Evans days- remember these two were petshop owners originally, not Zoologists, Primatologists or any other 'ologists' and they also found a major revenue could be gained from dressing up Chimpanzees for TV adverts. Its hardly surprising they didn't fully realise/understand the social needs of many of the primate species in their care. They went about 'specialising' in Primates by acquiring more and more species but with little idea of the complex management required, so the results today don't reflect much success in longterm breeding of many of them. Anyone who says Twycross is, apart from the sheer diversity, a 'wonderful' collection of primates, is kidding themselves! Many of the unusual species of Guenons, or example, are old or non-breeding pairs or singles and there are virtually no self sustaining groups of these monkeys.
Longterm I would like to see the Primate collection reduced somewhat, getting away from the 'stamp collection' mentality and that they concentrate on those species they are successful with in order to establish larger breeding groups. It can still contain some of those 'special' monkeys and would include the Chimps in one large social group- it could certainly be done.
This is correct, but if thoiught about, people visiting the zoo will use it but people may also come in to use the food court area and have a coffee etc which brings in additional income for the zoo.
Not quite sure how much passing traffic there will be, with people popping in for a coffee on their way to... well, the field which was the possible sight of the Battle of Bosworth, maybe.
Yes, it all looks quite nice. But for the reasons which have now been rehearsed repeatedly, it was a bonkers idea to put a snow leopard enclosure at the entrance. What happens when the animals start stereotyping?
And the new eating place is certainly well overdue - the old cafe, against some pretty stiff competition, provided me with the most disgusting meal I have ever had in a zoo - but should the main restaurant be at the entrance? Won't most visitors arrive, potter around a bit, and then want to eat, drink and be merry?
I really do hope that those of us who turn up our noses at Twycross will be able to eat our words in a few years time, but for now it certainly has an awfully long way to go, with its woeful ape enclosures and its boring monkey lawns.
Not quite sure how much passing traffic there will be, with people popping in for a coffee on their way to... d the new eating place is certainly well overdue - the old cafe, against some pretty stiff competition, provided me with the most disgusting meal I have ever had in a zoo.
I really do hope that those of us who turn up our noses at Twycross will be able to eat our words in a few years time, but for now it certainly has an awfully long way to go, with its woeful ape enclosures and its boring monkey lawns.
That thought occurred to me too. I think the majority of people who use this centre will have come to visit the Zoo, as you said its not a focus for anywhere/anybody otherwise. Twycross's old cafe was a pretty awful little place I would agree.
I still won't believe there are really major changes afoot in the zoo as a whole until we start seeing (Primate) enclosures being remodelled for some of the EXISTING Primates- not just new species.
I saw this for myself today and still stand by my original comments. As we were walking about it did actually occur to me as well that for a comparatively small zoo, Twycross does have several 'eateries' dotted about, and, as Sooty suggested, most zoo visitors would probably want to eat some time after their arrival - and therefore not necessarily want to trudge back to the entrance to do so.
As far as the quality of the food is concerned, it remains to be seen whether or not the new place will improve matters ....... nice surroundings don't actually guarantee good food after all ! Additionally, in good weather at least, one of Twycross' good points is that you're never very far away from somewhere relatively nice to picnic, with lots of space to choose from, and for many families (in particular) this would probably be their preferred way of eating (due to cost) rather than the new place.
The larger new gift shop was a bit of a disappointment ..... I know zoos are practically obliged to fill their shops with tat but it would have been nice perhaps to try and include something a bit different and/or better quality in addition to the realms of soft toys and plastic rubbish - they certainly have the space to do so now. For example, Chester have a great book selection (at least IIRC, in the Fountain shop) ..... not just mainstream titles like Twycross' small selection, but stuff appealing to those particularly interested in zoology and/or wildlife.
The larger new gift shop was a bit of a disappointment ..... I know zoos are practically obliged to fill their shops with tat but it would have been nice perhaps to try and include something a bit different and/or better quality in addition to the realms of soft toys and plastic rubbish - they certainly have the space to do so now. For example, Chester have a great book selection (at least IIRC, in the Fountain shop) ..... not just mainstream titles like Twycross' small selection, but stuff appealing to those particularly interested in zoology and/or wildlife.
GillP, When I went on friday I was told by one of the shop managers that whats in the shop now is alot of what was in the old shops, and that we should expect a hugge new range of items comin gin very soon. Alot of limited edition stuff such as Twycross Zoo china plates etc (The brand escapes me but my mum and dad knew what it was when I told them). Thery are also going to be selling lots of other stuff the same as Chester etc I suppose such as books and canvas prints.
That is only because there is much which is open to criticism at Twycross, not for any other reason I can think of. The curious past development of the Zoo with the simple, unattractive enclosures and wealth of brickwork, and metal in many older enclosures has led to the present state of the contrasting 'old and new' styles at Twycross.
If they are serious about upgrading the whole Zoo now to this new and higher standard then I applaud the decision, it is better late than never! In the case of the Primate enclosures, I also hope perhaps they visit Apenheul Primate Park in Holland, which I think deserves the tag of 'World Primate Centre' far more than Twycross, to see how captive primates really should/can be kept, before they design any further enclosures.
I've never been there but I've heard it's impressive and the gallery photos seem to back that up. It would be nice to see them going down that line.
A lot of what's said on here is constructive and everybody is entitled to their opinion, most I'm in agreement with, however, sometimes I get the feeling that people like to kick the place. One comment on this thread insinuates that the new centre is pretty much irrelevant and it simply isn't, it will provide a great visitor experience and visitor experience is hugely important to the majority of people that visit the zoo. I'm referring to the one about 'the same old portakabins', in it's own right the new centre/entrance is excellent and a massive improvement, there cannot be any debate about that, the old and the new are worlds apart.
As to whether it should have been done first, I suspect all animal lovers/zoo enthusiasts would say no, I imagine most marketeers, business strategists etc would say yes. My personal opinion, it should have been done first but it should have had primates in it.
