When the Park was first opened, the Hippo pools only kept waterfowl; that nearest the shop still held a pair of Black-necked Swans into the 1980s. Certainly, the drainage has never been obviously upgraded in the forty years I've known Whipsnade; as Panthera1981 says, a composter has been installed (I think at the same time as the houses were built, in 1996/7). But it's obviously not coping....
It is interesting to look at the photos of Antwerp's new(ish) Hippo pool. They must have had the same heatwave, but the water seems beautifully clean. I wonder how it's done.
The Lions at London Zoo are in much greater need for a new enclosure then the Hippos at Whipsnade. And I have to say, having been there many times, the smell is not that bad IMO anyway.
The Hippos have two nice sized enclosures and they are way more active then they ever used to be. And so what if they don't have underwater viewing, its not the most important thing. Visitor facilities should always come after the Animals ones.
The ZSL, as with most charities will not have an endless pot of money to throw around at its hearts content, so it must focus its attention on areas that need MASSIVE improvement, i.e the Lion area at London Zoo.
The Lions at London Zoo are in much greater need for a new enclosure then the Hippos at Whipsnade. And I have to say, having been there many times, the smell is not that bad IMO anyway.
I would say the Hippos are at least in need of a better filtration system, if not a new enclosure. I have not noticed too bad a smell there either but they are usually viewed outdoors, not inside (I don't think I have ever seen a Common Hippo at Whipsnade in the indoor section) but I still think they deserve better than what they have, particularly their indoor accomodation which- the exhibit part of it- is tiny for such a large animal.
But the Lions are in London, and the Hippos at Whipsnade- its fairly obvious which will always lose out to the other.
London Zoo has large visitor numbers which increased in the last year. I don't know the exact figures but would it be fair to suggest that Regents Park in effect subsidises Whipsnade? With the effect that investments in London will ultimately benefit Whipsnade too?
London Zoo has large visitor numbers which increased in the last year. I don't know the exact figures but would it be fair to suggest that Regents Park in effect subsidises Whipsnade? With the effect that investments in London will ultimately benefit Whipsnade too?
An attractive argument, to which a couple of rejoinders might be made.
Firstly, both zoos subsidise the rest of the Society's operations. I am sure that the calculation has been made that visitor spend at London will increase with a new lion exhibit, together with Asiatic Lion themed merchandise. I am still not sure that visitor spend at London wouldn't increase with a more diverse collection that took longer to see; a sleeping lion is a sleeping lion whether in the 1876 Lion House, the present Lion Terraces, the propose new lion exhibit, or Woburn's 32-acre drive through exhibit.
Secondly, a £5 million investment made at Whipsnade would build far more than a new lion exhibit - how much more is a question of judgement and the curator's taste. Common sense alone would suggest that there is minimal requirement to demolish existing structures at Whipsnade, and far looser planning requirements.
And finally, it simply is not fair that all the development capital goes into London. Huge swathes of Whipsnade remain underdeveloped or undeveloped.
One final thought; if ajmc looks on this forum, he will see photos of state of the art hippo exhibits in Antwerp, West Berlin and San Diego. He might just see what some of the posters here are getting at.
An attractive argument, to which a couple of rejoinders might be made.
Firstly, both zoos subsidise the rest of the Society's operations. I am sure that the calculation has been made that visitor spend at London will increase with a new lion exhibit, together with Asiatic Lion themed merchandise. I am still not sure that visitor spend at London wouldn't increase with a more diverse collection that took longer to see; a sleeping lion is a sleeping lion whether in the 1876 Lion House, the present Lion Terraces, the propose new lion exhibit, or Woburn's 32-acre drive through exhibit.
Secondly, a £5 million investment made at Whipsnade would build far more than a new lion exhibit - how much more is a question of judgement and the curator's taste. Common sense alone would suggest that there is minimal requirement to demolish existing structures at Whipsnade, and far looser planning requirements.
And finally, it simply is not fair that all the development capital goes into London. Huge swathes of Whipsnade remain underdeveloped or undeveloped.
One final thought; if ajmc looks on this forum, he will see photos of state of the art hippo exhibits in Antwerp, West Berlin and San Diego. He might just see what some of the posters here are getting at.
A sleeping Lion or not, they deserve the best possible housing. As much as we love the history attached to the Lion Terraces, they are not up to modern standards. I am actually baffled at the idea that it will be a waste of money, for all the "this Zoo needs a better this or that" the Lion Terraces are the one place of London that is in such need of a complete re-do.
All of the enclosures at Whipsnade are at least at a pretty good standard, The Lion Terraces are not. It is actually depressing seeing the Lions at the moment, where as the rest of London (I believe) is looking great, the Lion Terraces are dank, small and depressing. As someone who is really interested in Zoo history, I find the Lion Terraces fascinating but they are not good enough for a species as endangered as the Asiatic Lion.
I don't wish to get back on to the 'use of space' at Whipsnade debate, I have made my feelings clear on that. However what I would like to add is I am 100% sure that Whipsnade be a different place in 20 years, as it is different to the very first time that I went as a baby back in 1990. Whipsnade is a site that does not need money spent on it to bring it up to shape. Sure, maybe they have plans for new developments in the future, but London Zoo needs money spent on it. The new Penguin, Gorilla, Tiger enclosures are excellent as is B.U.G.S, The African section and the rainforest building. The last part of London Zoo that needs money is the Lion area, and thankfully that is now being addressed.
Thank you for bringing me up in your post, I am more then aware of Hippo enclosures around the world, but you do not need a massive 'space dome', clear blue water and a massive underwater viewing area to make a good Hippo enclosure. Are the Hippos happy and active at Whipsnade? They always look in good shape and are way more active then they used to be, is viewing better then before? Definitely and do both Hippo species breed? Yes they do! When you have all these ingredients do you need to spend a hell of a lot of money on doing something that looks like the Eden Project? I would say no.
An attractive argument, to which a couple of rejoinders might be made.
Firstly, both zoos subsidise the rest of the Society's operations. I am sure that the calculation has been made that visitor spend at London will increase with a new lion exhibit, together with Asiatic Lion themed merchandise. I am still not sure that visitor spend at London wouldn't increase with a more diverse collection that took longer to see; a sleeping lion is a sleeping lion whether in the 1876 Lion House, the present Lion Terraces, the propose new lion exhibit, or Woburn's 32-acre drive through exhibit.
Secondly, a £5 million investment made at Whipsnade would build far more than a new lion exhibit - how much more is a question of judgement and the curator's taste. Common sense alone would suggest that there is minimal requirement to demolish existing structures at Whipsnade, and far looser planning requirements.
And finally, it simply is not fair that all the development capital goes into London. Huge swathes of Whipsnade remain underdeveloped or undeveloped.
One final thought; if ajmc looks on this forum, he will see photos of state of the art hippo exhibits in Antwerp, West Berlin and San Diego. He might just see what some of the posters here are getting at.
In your opinion Ian, would you say the powers that be at ZSL view Whipsnade with casual indifference? Certainly in the 80+ years it's been going I personally feel it should have progressed further than it has done.
Regarding subsidising the other, a plan was put forward a few years ago by one of Whipsnade's horticulturalists to crop part of the park for browse, which could have supplied both sites for little cost. This was shot down by those in charge who considered buying the stuff in as sound business-no comment!
You could level the same argument for the London Lions though....they breed, are active(as much as any other Lions anyway) and are displayed better than they were previously. But I agree the Lion area (at London) now looks outdated and 'dank', particularly now the Tigers have brand new accomodation. Each time a new exhibit is built, the contrast with older exhibits casts a poorer light on them. It is a sort of continual process in all Zoos.
I think if they kept Common Hippo at London they probably would build an underwater viewing situation. I'm not expecting that to ever happen at Whipsnade because of the cost, but they do have one of the poorest quality exhibits there and it does need to be upgraded somewhat I think. The size of the indoor area and the cleanliness of the pools are the two major considerations for me.
You could level the same argument for the London Lions though....they breed, are active(as much as any other Lions anyway) and are displayed better than they were previously. But I agree the Lion area (at London) now looks outdated and 'dank', particularly now the Tigers have brand new accomodation. Each time a new exhibit is built, the contrast with older exhibits casts a poorer light on them. It is a sort of continual process in all Zoos.
I think if they kept Common Hippo at London they probably would build an underwater viewing situation. I'm not expecting that to ever happen at Whipsnade because of the cost, but they do have one of the poorest quality exhibits there and it does need to be upgraded somewhat I think. The size of the indoor area and the cleanliness of the pools are the two major considerations for me.
True the Lions have done well there and have bred, but I would argue that the Lion Terraces is the most pressing issue at the moment. I am not saying no to any possible future changes, but I feel that will be more of a 'luxury' development instead of needed changes (such as the Lion Terraces).
On a different note, I was up at the Zoo yesterday afternoon and as well as seeing the Blesbok (briefly!) and Impala again, got the best view of the Oryx I have ever had. The whole heard was right at the fence which was awesome.
Also saw all the Hippos outside, Bongo active, plenty of Deer in the passage-thru asia and possible a pair of Blesbok on the right as you drive into the passage-thru asia.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this. Personally, I think that the Common Hippo are far more of a draw to Whipsnade than the Asiatic Lions are to London; and that in any case £5 million on upgrading the London lion facility is a ridiculous amount of money.
I don't think that I'm the only one who feels this way!
