Once again, I agree that they can and should do better. I am not arguing with you there at all. I just think you were quite over the top in your first post and your comments in the exhibit list post are also over the top in my opinion. For example, Snowleopard, who is more critical than most, has very contrasting reviews of those exhibits.
And to say that everyone who disagrees with you is being blinded is also over the top.
Collection is a huge element of a zoo too, so why shouldn't people strongly consider that?
And why shouldn't they consider the weather? It may be unfair to so, but it is an important factor for both the visitors and the animals. I believe your favorite zoo is the Bronx Zoo, which has many animals in indoor holdings during the winter and many animals indoors all the time. Usually in good to great indoor complexes, but I'll take Monkey Trails over Jungle World in part due to the indoor/outdoor factor.
mweb08, we (critics of SDZ) don't disagree that SDZ has a fantastic animal collection. In fact that is SDZ's strength.
SDZ has the perfect climate for a zoo, somewhere between tropical and mild temperate. Which is exactly why we are disappointed that SDZ isn't taking full advantage of this to create solid exhibits.
EO and now Panda Trek have been disappointing (to me at least) in terms of exhibit design. Too little effort has been made to disguise obvious barriers (planting could easily take care of that) and the quality of landscaping (rockwork etc) lags behind many other zoos.
Thanks Otter Lord and betsy for all the new pictures.
In regards to plantings, SDZ doesn't seem to like planting plants where they can easily be trampled or eaten by the animals. Are they just reluctant to put any plants in enclosures if it means it will cost them?
I try not to comment too much on places I haven't seen in person but when I look at San Diego's exhibits I am consistently underwhelmed. I often ask myself how it would look if you lost the climate and foliage and I feel that in many cases you have something not very special at all. I really want to go there but I am more excited about going to other places first which I think are probably better zoos overall.
I think San Diego shows that bigger certainly doesn't mean better.
I love san diego zoo, and me, like most other zoochatters, would kill to have the chance to see the world famous collection, but elephant oddesy, although I agree, isn't as bad as some say it is (judging from others opinions + photo's), it really didn't live up to our expectations, and personally, unless san diego can once again begin to develope exhibits as good as its reputation, it will loose its grip as the best zoo in the world.
I love san diego zoo, and me, like most other zoochatters, would kill to have the chance to see the world famous collection, but elephant oddesy, although I agree, isn't as bad as some say it is (judging from others opinions + photo's), it really didn't live up to our expectations, and personally, unless san diego can once again begin to develope exhibits as good as its reputation, it will loose its grip as the best zoo in the world.
That's fair and I agree. Some act like the zoo isn't even a top 5 zoo in the country and seem to be biased against it. So that's where the problem for me lies.
mweb08, we (critics of SDZ) don't disagree that SDZ has a fantastic animal collection. In fact that is SDZ's strength.
SDZ has the perfect climate for a zoo, somewhere between tropical and mild temperate. Which is exactly why we are disappointed that SDZ isn't taking full advantage of this to create solid exhibits.
EO and now Panda Trek have been disappointing (to me at least) in terms of exhibit design. Too little effort has been made to disguise obvious barriers (planting could easily take care of that) and the quality of landscaping (rockwork etc) lags behind many other zoos.
Thanks Otter Lord and betsy for all the new pictures.
I appreciate the thank you. I have to admit I was a little taken aback by all the criticism of the exhibit. Since I have not had the opportunity to visit as many zoos as some zoochaters have, I don't have experience to make comparisons. All i know is that when I walk into the zoo I feel very fortunate to live in San Diego and be able to call the San Diego Zoo my home zoo.
BTW, I wouldn't really consider this a disappointment because as far as I know, it wasn't built up to be anything great. I just thought it was going to basically be moving a few species into the panda area and connecting the exhibits to create a geographic theme. I didn't think this was something that they were spending a ton of money or time on. While it could be better, it looks like they've made a huge upgrade to the red panda exhibit and have greatly increased the geographic theme without having to spend much money in the process.
This isn't like EO or Monkey Trails where they spent a ton of money and time, as well as hyped it up for a long time.
It's simply a nice, but small upgrade to the zoo.
Hopefully the next major exhibit will be more like Monkey Trails than EO.
It is my understanding that one of the reasons for creating it was to address one of the biggest complaint the zoo receives which is the the long boring line to see the pandas. The people in line will now have interesting animals and information to read.
Once again, I agree that they can and should do better. I am not arguing with you there at all. I just think you were quite over the top in your first post and your comments in the exhibit list post are also over the top in my opinion. For example, Snowleopard, who is more critical than most, has very contrasting reviews of those exhibits.
I'm not sure how that makes my comments "over the top." I know plenty of zoo professionals and zoo fans whose opinions of the exhibits noted are at least as negative as my evaluations.
And to say that everyone who disagrees with you is being blinded is also over the top.
I honestly believe that people ARE lulled by the great weather and lush vegetation--and a generation of well-orchestrated hype--into thinking the Zoo is better than it is. If many of these enclosures were transported to Baltimore or London, they would be criticized for what they are: poorly-detailed, simple animal enclosures that may meet basic animal management criteria but are not evocative of a natural habitat or in any way aesthetically compelling.
Collection is a huge element of a zoo too, so why shouldn't people strongly consider that?
I've never said the zoo's collection is anything other than astounding. But the huge number of species and the need to move animals around to accommodate a dynamic collection also means many animals are housed in substandard, generic enclosures--a great case in point being the corncrib cages erected to house animals during construction of Monkey Trails that--6 years later--are still there "exhibiting" rare species like L'Hoests guenons in conditions not so different from any roadside zoo in Texas or Thailand.
And why shouldn't they consider the weather? It may be unfair to so, but it is an important factor for both the visitors and the animals. I believe your favorite zoo is the Bronx Zoo, which has many animals in indoor holdings during the winter and many animals indoors all the time. Usually in good to great indoor complexes, but I'll take Monkey Trails over Jungle World in part due to the indoor/outdoor factor.
The Monkey Trails primate exhibits are quite good, but the ropes and plastic "tree branches" that comprise the majority of the interior cage furnishings there don't come close to evoking an authentic rain forest environment that Jungleworld does. And, as is evident from the aerial Skyfari view, few zoos "warehouse" more animals in basic off-exhibit cages and paddocks than San Diego.
I am not, as you suggest, "biased" against the San Diego Zoo. I grew up idolizing the place, and when the Wild Animal Park opened and the zoo began re-thinking exhibits in the 1980s (Kopje, Tiger River) I would have been its greatest proponent. But in recent years, the significant degradation of its design standards and its extreme and tasteless commercialization are disappointments of the highest order.
