Chester Zoo 1978 hybrid elephant

Because that's what my father told me it was later :p

If he was wrong, of course, that brings us back to Tim May's observations about Motty having last been on display in the 1980's or thereabouts - though does not resolve why I recall seeing two (both apparently African) elephant calves on display, then just the one African calf the next time I visited.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
If he was wrong, of course, that brings us back to Tim May's observations about Motty having last been on display in the 1980's or thereabouts
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I also saw him then, he was at the front of a group though I can't remember if it was all Elephants or something else as well. I do remember how small he looked, really tiny, even for a comparative newborn. There is some suggestion he was premature but I don't know what else that might be based on.
 
I to have seen him at the natural history museum . as mentioned previously since the elephants got moved to there present location i dont think he been on display . i did enquire on where he was and was informed he was in a storage facility in Wandsworth . Its a shame off display if they feel there iasnt a need for him at the museum maybe put him on display at Tring .
 
I wonder if anyone has done any modern DNA research on Motty - I do recall one biology professor saying that breeding African and Indian Elephants would be akin to a human/chimp hybrid.

Of course, saying 'cross genera' breeding is impossible relies on our traditional understanding of genera being accurate - modern science shows it's perhaps a lot more complicated than that!
 
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Davef68 said:
I wonder if anyone has done any modern DNA research on Motty - I do recall one biology professor saying that breeding African and Indian Elephants would be akin to a human/chimp hybrid.
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I have a feeling that Elephas and Loxodonta are actually *more* distantly related to one another than Pan and Homo are - which makes Motty all the more significant. Certainly the two African species did not diverge from one another until approximately 2.6 – 5.6 million years ago, roughly the same time as Elephas and Mammuthus diverged from one another. As such I would imagine that the Asian and African lines have been distinct for as much as 10 million years.....
 
Both species have 56 chromosomes, having the same number of chromosomes can be more important than being closely related when it comes to producing a viable hybrid.

False Killer Whales and Bottlenose Dolphins are different genera, but can produce viable, even fertile hybrids because they have the same number of chromosomes.

Loxodonta and Elephas have been distinct for about 5 million years, around the same time humans and chimpanzees diverged.
 
lamna said:
Loxodonta and Elephas have been distinct for about 5 million years, around the same time humans and chimpanzees diverged.
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I suspect it is unlikely that Loxodonta and Elephas diverged more recently than the two species within Loxodonta diverged :p as this would render the genus polyphyletic unless one lumped Mammuthus and Elephas in.
 
I'll admit I'm not an expert on the specifics of elephant evolution, but from what I know Primelephas diverged into Loxodonta and Elephas/Mammuthus at the end of the Miocene, with Elephas and Mammuthus diverging in the Pliocene.
 
I was one of the few lucky enough to see Motty alive, although at that age didn't really appreciate the uniqueness of the occasion. I've got photographs of that day - including one of me with the elephant herd - but for some reason I've never managed to fathom, none of Motty.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Because that's what my father told me it was later :p
If he was wrong, of course, that brings us back to Tim May's observations about Motty having last been on display in the 1980's or thereabouts - though does not resolve why I recall seeing two (both apparently African) elephant calves on display, then just the one African calf the next time I visited.
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Thanks for the additional information, Dave.

For clarification:- my earlier posts commented that I last saw the elephant hybrid on display many years ago. I didn’t say that was last time he was ever exhibited.

It is, of course, quite possible that he was subsequently displayed again, after I saw him last, but that never coincided with any of my visits.
 
All very interesting, thank you bongorob for the link to the new pictures.

After viewing this post I remembered I had a book with Motty on display at the Natural History Museum, here is the scanned image.

16780439105_13282916b5_z.jpg


This link has the image at a higher resolution
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8736/16780439105_0420775c80_o.jpg
 
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