Africa

R

Rayles

Member
Well,

After spending just over two weeks in Kenya and Tanzania...can I just say there is nothing better than seeing these animals in the wild!

It is such a great thing our zoos are doing; preserving species for the future.

My only wish is that they would sometimes focus on other, less-known species that are just as endangered as those that are already in zoos.

For example, there seems to be plenty of lions around in zoos and, from what I saw in my travels, these beautiful animals can be found quite easily in the national parks and reserves. My wish is that zoos would focus more upon other animals that are just as endangered, such as the African Wild Dog and the Leopard.

However, in the Australiasian region, I know the focus is on Asian species, so perhaps my bringing up African animals is a moot point. I don't know...just food for thought.

But my absolute highlight was seeing a servel...very rare! Oh, and seeing a pack of lions take down a kill, or two lions mating, or the tree-climbing lions or the wildebeest migration...the list goes on and on!

Sorry about the rambles...just eager to share my amazing experience.

Rayles
 
African Dogs

Wellington zoo has some African dogs ( perhaps Cape Hunting dogs ? ) and are hopeful about breeding them . Only time will tell if they will do as well as the baboons and chimps :)
 
african wild dogs are a major priority for the region and our zoos also support conservation programs for this species in the wild. many zoos house them and the breeidng program is doing well.
 
yes monarto is breeding them like rabbits we even have 4 out the back just waiting for somewhere to go
 
melbourne seems to have stopped breeding wild dogs for the time being. i belive we have a few males on diplay there and then a few non-breeders off diplay at werribee. the long range plan for werribee will see wild dogs in drive through exhibit (from memory) so that no doubt will see a larger pack being formed and reinstatement of breeding. there seems to be more more wild dogs that we can house at present, so i'm sure melbourne is holding off becuase of that. alternatively maybe there is a need for a non-breeding holding group - maybe they could become that?
 
Well, there are more Wild Dogs than I thought!

But I was just really using them as an example of an animal that is perhaps just as endangered in the wild (I didn't see any and I saw plenty of lions!) that zoos perhaps don't focus upon because they aren't as popular with the public?

Rayles
 
werribee has 2 very very old males retitred from melbourne, leaving this parks board with no females

werribee will be doing an exhibit with wild dogs of that with equal standards to lions on the edge, it will be next to the current overnight safari lodge. it will have feenec foxes( random place to put a desert animal) and porcupines, as wll as a few smaller species.
 
rayles, i think you'll find wild dogs are even more endangered than lions.

adelaide, monarto, dubbo, melbourne, werribee, mogo, perth, wellington, orana and hamilton all keep the species. making for a total population of 100 animals in our region.

that number is close to double the amount of lions that live in australasian zoos.

so they are probably not such a good example!! ;)

there are however, plenty of highly endangered species in our zoos that are not being bred, no longer a priority or taken interest in by other zoos in the region. its a topic that is discussed very often in the thread. persian onagers (asian wild ass') are endangered and held at dubbo, but no other zoo has ever had any interest in keeping them.

there are very few "a-grade" zoos in australasia and this means that there is generally smaller populations of all the different species our zoos hold. this leaves our zoos more reliant on continually importing unrelated animals to breed from. because of our tough biosecurity laws, this isn't easy or cheap and costs the zoos alot of money. in addition there are many species common in overseas zoos that cannot be imported into australia anymore. one solution to this problem is for our zoos to work together to reduce the amount of species displayed so that each zoo can hold larger groups of the same species.

at the moment it is hard to be entirely certain as to what our zoos will end up looking like in the future. essentially the decision as to what species we display doesn't always rely on whether or not they are endangered. availabilty in captivity, import laws, experience and current status of the species in australasian zoos is all taken into account.

wild dogs are seem secure in our zoos - but unfortunately i can spool off a long list of other endangered species in our zoos whos future here isn't so assured!
 
No, Wild Dogs probably wasn't the best example! LOL!
I just know that they are rare in NSW...I know Mogo recently started displaying some from Perth.

But I guess my point is that some species get so much publicity over others, who are more endangered...and isn't that the point of zoos? To preserve species' existence?

Rayles
 
I would argue you are both wrong. Species existence is just a part of the "point of zoo's" as you put it.

I would say first and foremost the objective of a zoo would be to raise money, first for self-preservation but most zoo's use extra money raised on in-situ conservation elsewhere.

Second would be to educate people about the fate of animal species worldwide. This is done best with charismatic and known species that represent an ecosystem elsewhere and use them to learn people about the faith of it's ecosystem. Sometimes preserving an endangered but not so cuddly species is easier if you preserve it indirectly through bigger and furrier species from the same region. Large fauna and big cats are the best example. These will help with raising money for the zoo itself, but also would help raise awareness for organisations as IFAW, WWF, etc...

Preservation of animal species on site is, relative to the above two rather small. Wheiter this is feasable is reliant on many factors, like: Wheither or not another subspecies is more endangered (like leopards), wheither animals are allready in captivity or if there are animals suitable for captivity, wheither husbandry is allready developed (including nutricion and breeding) and probably a few more, what room they require and how much space is available at zoo's willing to take on the species, etc...

So all in all it's not surprisingly that zoo's focus on particular species and not "just" on the rarest...
 
Well, I guessed I went to Africa to see the animals we see in zoos in their natural habitats and was hoping to learn something from it. After all, this is where these animals should be and deserve to live their lives. Also, just wanted to share my experiences - not start an argument and be told in no uncertain terms how wrong I was.

I'll shut up now.

Rayles
 
Hey Rayles, Don't take any strong discussions on this forum to heart. Since joining this forum, I've discovered that there's some strong personalities here, and everyone has their own opinion. Although sometimes those opinions are the same, often, they differ, but I think all opinions are valid. There are also people who write quickly, based on their passion for the topic at hand, and don't necessarily stop and ready what they've written before they hit the Submit button.

I've also spent a fair amount of time in Africa recently, having been a hardened zoo person for 20-odd years. It was truly, the most amazing experience I have ever had, and I know exactly what you mean about the unique and awesome experiences - watching baby hippos frolicking with their mothers; finding a pair of mating hyaenas; being charged by an angry bull elephant; and spending 4 hours, completely surrounded by a herd of 7 white rhino in Umfolozi game reserve, actually feeling the hot breath of the dominant male as he breathed through the car window, about 1 metre from my face! Experiences I'll never forget.

There's many an argument I've started on here - most accidentally :confused: (but some intentionally ;) ) - don't let it get you down. I don't think any of your posts have been "wrong" - your opinions as absolutely as valid as anyone else's.

Stick with it!
 
Thanks Zoopro - guess I just wanted to share my wonderful African experience and the opinions and beliefs I developed as a result of it.
But I know now not to start a discussion!! LOL!

Sounds like you had an amazing experience...I don't think you can go to Africa and have it not change you.

We were fortunate enough to see a lion kill, lions mating, a tree-climbing lion at Lake Manyara and our own truck-chargers including elephants and rhinos!
I'll also never forget the night I woke up to hear a leopard roaring not too far away from my tent - my only thought was 'go back to sleep, go back to sleep!'

Rayles
 
lol wow, sounds so kool, i want to do all that when i finish uni and after some yrs at the zoo, i am going to go to zimbawae to start and vollunteer in chipingalli wildlife rescue, then with them cheetah research in kenya, then if i get some good contacts in the zoo world some other research stuff, but i would also like to do the whole gorillas thing, i mean it costs thousands, but boy would i love that, and maybe i can find some short cuts with good contacts.

if u dnt mind me asking, how did u do it, just a safri, or with the zoo, reseach trip, and how much it cost you (private message if you prefer)

also dnt worry about anything said on here, i start a hell of alot of arguments here -cough with zoopro cough-, (i feel most the time he just picks on me) so dont worry, i think ya pretty kool, i mean AFRICA, u have been to the worlds ultimate bio park!!!!!!!!!!
 
Rayles said:
....not start an argument and be told in no uncertain terms how wrong I was.....
Click to expand...

um, i think i said i would "argue" that they are not. i never said your wrong.
please don't be precious rayles. we have lost many a new forum member because of such issues before. the main bulk of us regulars enjoy a healthy disagreement and certainly don't take any of it to heart. hope you can too.


you appeared to imply that zoos should focus on endangered species over less endangered ones (using exotic lions vs wild dogs as an example) because breeding endangered species was what zoos are for. now i love zoos, and they certainly do some very important work with some species and captive breeding programs are asset to many of them (most of them native but more recently even australian-bred orangutans have been released into the wild). but many populations of zoo animals worldwide are not particuarly valuable to the species as an "insurance population" or for release. many animal species are terribly inbred, both regionally and sometimes globally. did you know less than 10 sumatran tigers founded the entire captive population. now there are hundreds of this subspecies in zoos, but genetically, its not anywhere near as valuable as it could be. taking animals to the other side of the world and putting them on display for the noisy public is a heavily compromised way to breed an endangered species. they can act as ambassadors and raise awareness, so they are valuable in this respect, but in my opinion the whole concept of an "ark" is greatly exaggerated and not entirely a true concept.

zoos origins are in entertainment and will always remain there due largely to the fact that part of what distinguishes a "zoo" from a "breeding centre" is that only one is definately open to the public. fortunatley zoos have also moved largely into the role of education and whilst i think they can improve, they are on the right track. preservation of most exotic species through CBP's, i'm afraid, comes a humble third in the list of priorities.

i can happily justify zoos existance, but i like to think i see them for what they are and in what circumstances.
 
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Some of us in this forum have been lucky enough to have travelled to other continents , and seen "exotic" animals in the wild .
Others of us havent ( yet ) been lucky enough to have done so .

From my own personal experience , I saw orangs being rehabilitated to go back in to the wild jungle in Borneo . It sure as heck beats zoos . But if all zoos close down and just leave the work to National parks and wildlife sanctuaries , we would lose a heck of a lot more animals alot faster .

For those who havent travelled to "exotic" places ( some of you might think of NZ as exotic for all I know ) the closest that they can appreciate wildlife is the zoo .
I can appreciate what Rayles has said about Africa , and his comments are as valid as the rest of us .
Often there is no easy answer to how do we go about conservation , and certainly there is no one answer that fits all species .
 
hey nigel,

nobody has critcised rayles comments about africa or how wonderful animals are in the wild. in fact nobody has criticised rayles at all.
 
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