Elephants have always been very popular animals both to "zoo geeks" and the general public alike. Of course, there's other popular animals also like lions and tigers and bears (but none of those come from both Asia and Africa, except for Asian lions which are not kept in large numbers by zoos and are def thought of primarily as an African animal). Even the major primates (like organutans, gorillas, chimpanzess) differentiate between contients. Other animals besides elephants such as rhinos and leopards don't seem to be as popular as elephants, popular though they may be. So if a zoo wanted to highlight both its African and its Asian animals, wanted to arrange its zoo aras on a geographical basis and could only afford, or had the space for either African or Asian elephants which other animals from Africa or Asia do you think are more popular and could more interest the public? Or to put it another way which section of the park Africa or Asia most needs elephants to help sell that section of the zoo? I might note in America's Best Zoos only Disney's Animal Kingdom made both the Africa and Asia Top 10 list and I do wonder if it wasn't other things like th Kilimanjaro Safari ride that made it possible (they do describe that as the one "must do.") Oh, one final point since it's an very expensive and so few zoos have them you can't include Giant Pandas to help sell the Asian section.
African vs Asian Elephants
- Thread starter MoonBear
- Start date
I would love to see a zoo that has separate exhibits of Asian and African elephants in different areas of the zoo. To my knowledge there isn't one like that. You mentioned Disney's Animal Kingdom, did they get Asian elephants? I thought they only had Africans.
Elefante I believe you're correct about Disney's Animal Kingdom. I mentioned them because they were the only zoo to be listed by America's Best Zoos as being in the Top 10 zoos for both their African and Asian animals. Your poinintg out that few if any zoos have a seperate exhibit for both African and Asian elephants gets to my basic question. To put my question another way, I'm wondering which contient Africa or Asia people (both the general public and those you'd find on a site like zoochat) think has more interesting animals, not including giant pandas. And do you think the interest in that contient's animals is high enough to make a Top 10 list of zoos without elephants?
Assuming, of course, the animals are kept in "good" exhibits.
Assuming, of course, the animals are kept in "good" exhibits.
laduec
Member
Personally, I think that Africa is more interesting to the general public, because it has more of the charismatic megafauna than Asia. Additionally most of the big, 'cuddly' species that Asia has and that draw in the crowds (tiger, leopard, orangutan, one-horned rhino), Africa has counterparts for (lion, cheetah, gorilla or chimpanzee, black or white rhino) and more (giraffe, zebra, hippos). When people think of going on vacation to see exotic wildlife, I believe they think of Africa before Asia, and zoos should think about public perceptions of 'the wild.'
Regarding whether or not these continents can make it without elephants? Even though I am deeply committed to elephants and they are my favorite taxa, I would have to say yes. If an exhibit or area in a zoo is compelling enough to keep visitors busy, I don't think they'll miss anything too much, including elephants.
Regarding whether or not these continents can make it without elephants? Even though I am deeply committed to elephants and they are my favorite taxa, I would have to say yes. If an exhibit or area in a zoo is compelling enough to keep visitors busy, I don't think they'll miss anything too much, including elephants.
I think it will be interesting to see what happens with Columbus once they get their new African Safari section up and going. I don't necessarily follow the book America's Best Zoos absolutely but I do think it's interesting to note everyone of their Top 10 African section zoos has elephants. Columbus has Asian elephants and everything I've read seems to indicate they will not be getting African elephants to go with them. Is it possible for a zoo to reach Top 10 status for their Asian section without elephants or giant pandas?
I don't know if they're in the Top 10 but Detroit, Philadelphia, and Lincoln Park don't have elephants and pandas and they are popular.
Pairi Daiza in Belgium and Miami Metro both separately exhibit African and Asian elephants. The latter doing it better than the prior.
animaloverjake
Member
Usually, when people think of the word "elephant" they think of an animal that has "big ears, tusks, wrinkled skin" so it all adds up to the great and powerful African Elephant. Which has those characteristics that that Asian Elephants don't have (Except only males have visible tusks) so most people would choose the African Elephant over the Asian Elephant because they have more prominent featues. Asian Elephants are amazing creatures too but most people would agree that the African Elephant is more recognizable than it's Asian cousin.
Elephas Maximus
Well-Known Member
African elephants are poorly represented in zoos. An average elephant exhibit contains only Asian species, number of animals limited by zoo space.
For example, a small city zoo would rather purchase a retired circus Asian elephant (often sick and unable to breed) than import a healthy young African, one or more.
In the same time, they're culled in great numbers every year.
Btw there are very few captive African elephants with large tusks (both males & females). Is it so because of the genotype, or captive conditions?
Two elephant species in one zoo create a possibility for a hybrid. It can be more valuable to science than hybrid big cats are.
With modern veterinary experience, the calf likely survives to adulthood (and who knows, maybe it will be fertile?)
For example, a small city zoo would rather purchase a retired circus Asian elephant (often sick and unable to breed) than import a healthy young African, one or more.
In the same time, they're culled in great numbers every year.
Btw there are very few captive African elephants with large tusks (both males & females). Is it so because of the genotype, or captive conditions?
Two elephant species in one zoo create a possibility for a hybrid. It can be more valuable to science than hybrid big cats are.
With modern veterinary experience, the calf likely survives to adulthood (and who knows, maybe it will be fertile?)
jbnbsn99
Well-Known Member
What? Are you saying that when people see an Asian Elephant do don't automatically thing it's an elephant?
jbnbsn99
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of African in captivity. Not sure where you're getting your data.
A hybrid, while possible, is extremely unlikely. The one example that ever occurred died very quickly. It most assuredly won't be fertile. They are not only different species, but different genera. How could a hybrid elephant be valuable to science?
animaloverjake
Member
No, obviously they are a recognizable species of elephant. In fact, I recognize the Asian Elephant just as much as the African Elephant. But I am just stating that when people hear the word "elephant" they usually think of the African Elephant.
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chrisbarela
Well-Known Member
I spoke with an elephant husbandry staff member about Asian / African hybrids and she said that they can't breed successfully. Yes I've heard about the one publicized birth (which died within minutes).
two weeks isn't minutes. (Well, I guess it is, just a lot of minutes!).
I think you're crediting regular people with too much zoological knowledge. To most people "elephant" just means "elephant".
Elephas Maximus
Well-Known Member
According to the Elephant database, there are aproximately 5 times more Asian than African elephants in captivity. So whan visiting any zoo, it's more likely to see Asian elephants. Only large zoos or safari parks can afford keeping African or both species.
Hybrids can contribute to studies of proboscidean genetics & evolution. A full-grown specimen would be unique, just imagine that it can exceed an African elephant in size... if being a male.
Besides famous Motty, there were several unconfirmed (but no less possible) hybrids in other locations. Their mortality may be not linked to genetics, considering the knowledge of elephant neonatal care in those times.
Still producing a hybrid elephant for research is more justified than breeding countless ligers for entertainment.
jbnbsn99
Well-Known Member
Of the zoos I've visited, I'd say the percentage is far closer to 50/50. Remember, the elephant database also includes working elephants in Asia.
In what regards will they contribute to knowledge of evolution and/or genetics? We don't need to create freaks when we can just study the DNA.
In what way is producing a hybrid elephant better than a liger? The elephant will have to suffer through 22 months of a pregnancy just because we want to see what will happen.
Elephas Maximus
Well-Known Member
Besides from decoding the DNA (that is nearly done for both species), the gene action & interaction sould also be studied. In other animals, a hybridization method is widely used in that case (both intergeneric and intrageneric) so why not for elephants?
They're somewhat expensive to be the lab animals, but eventually they will be, considering the growing urge of mammoth cloning.
Anyway, the elephant cow carrying a hybrid won't 'suffer' much more than in the case of normal pregnancy.
Instead of being culled, a number of African elephant cows can be used for cross-breeding. In the previously known cases, the females were Asian, so new combination may be more productive.
It's a pity that Motty was improperly preserved (no tissue samples or skeletal remains, just a mount).
Making just one more crossbreed specimen with the intention of long-term research is way better than legal breeding of Asian elephants for circus needs (remember the Ringling 'Elephant Conservation Center' and horrible things happening here)
Speaking about African/Asian rate in zoos, it's closer to 40/60 after eliminating SE Asia.
They're somewhat expensive to be the lab animals, but eventually they will be, considering the growing urge of mammoth cloning.
Anyway, the elephant cow carrying a hybrid won't 'suffer' much more than in the case of normal pregnancy.
Instead of being culled, a number of African elephant cows can be used for cross-breeding. In the previously known cases, the females were Asian, so new combination may be more productive.
It's a pity that Motty was improperly preserved (no tissue samples or skeletal remains, just a mount).
Making just one more crossbreed specimen with the intention of long-term research is way better than legal breeding of Asian elephants for circus needs (remember the Ringling 'Elephant Conservation Center' and horrible things happening here)
Speaking about African/Asian rate in zoos, it's closer to 40/60 after eliminating SE Asia.
In terms of what elephants are kept in Europe....
African Elephant (no ssp) (Loxodonta africana) is held by 7 collections.
East African bush elephant (Loxodonta africana knochenhaueri) is held by 11 collections.
Cape elephant (Loxodonta africana africana) is held by 50 collections.
Asian elephant (no ssp) (Elephas maximus) is held by 81 collections.
Bornean elephant (Elephas maximus sondaicus) is held by 1 collection.
Malayan Elephant (Elephas maximus hirsutus) is held by 1 collection.
Indian elephant (Elephas maximus indicus) is held by 38 collections.
Sri Lankan elephant (Elephas maximus maximus) is held by 7 collections.
Sumatran elephant (Elephas maximus sumatranus) is held by 2 collections.
Granted that some collections may hold multiple subspecies of Elephant, this shows a rough ratio of African elephants to Asian Elephants of 68:130 - so in Europe at least there is a distinct majority for the Asian Elephant.
African Elephant (no ssp) (Loxodonta africana) is held by 7 collections.
East African bush elephant (Loxodonta africana knochenhaueri) is held by 11 collections.
Cape elephant (Loxodonta africana africana) is held by 50 collections.
Asian elephant (no ssp) (Elephas maximus) is held by 81 collections.
Bornean elephant (Elephas maximus sondaicus) is held by 1 collection.
Malayan Elephant (Elephas maximus hirsutus) is held by 1 collection.
Indian elephant (Elephas maximus indicus) is held by 38 collections.
Sri Lankan elephant (Elephas maximus maximus) is held by 7 collections.
Sumatran elephant (Elephas maximus sumatranus) is held by 2 collections.
Granted that some collections may hold multiple subspecies of Elephant, this shows a rough ratio of African elephants to Asian Elephants of 68:130 - so in Europe at least there is a distinct majority for the Asian Elephant.
Buenos Aires zoo in Argentina had both African and Asian elephants when I visited in 2008. From memory it had 1 African and 2 Asian. They were housed in the same enclosure.