Are European Zoos Generally Better than American Zoos?

[littleRedPanda]

Ok, but what was the situation to begin with ?
Was this animal going to be euthanized ?

Oh, I don't want to get into this again
Look through the Wuppertal threads about Bili. He was moved there but didn't fit in immediately, so after a couple of misinterpreted press reports, an already active local anti zoo campaign group started saying he would be euthanised. There was a lot of misinterpretation in my opinion. It turns out that the lady in the USA I referred to in the post you quoted is a member of this forum, although rather inactive.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Oh, I don't want to get into this again
Look through the Wuppertal threads about Bili. He was moved there but didn't fit in immediately, so after a couple of misinterpreted press reports, an already active local anti zoo campaign group started saying he would be euthanised. There was a lot of misinterpretation in my opinion. It turns out that the lady in the USA I referred to in the post you quoted is a member of this forum, although rather inactive.

Thanks @littleRedPanda , I wasn't aware of this situation.

Well from what you've said I've got the jist of what happened, looks like it was another bull **** misinformation campaign by animal rights activists.

 

[MarkinTex]

While I like the naturalistic enclosures that many American zoos offer, I wish they came with fewer obnoxious cultural themes and a smaller price tag. It's become the norm to spend several million dollars to hire a design company that goes ham trying to make it into what is effectively a large stage set. This does several annoying things: it distracts from the animals themselves, it takes space away from other potential exhibits and animals to make room for unnecessary themed space, and it results in more money being spent that could've been invested into maintenance or improvements elsewhere... so while I commend the style of creating naturalistic exhibits rather than just simple paddocks or wood-and-wire cages, it can certainly go too far in the other direction.

e park type ambience which is something that I personally am not really fond of and that I don't think is so prevalent in Europe. where things seem to be more aesthetical and low key.

I hear what y'all are saying about theming and its costs to the zoos, and rising gate fees, but if I may I'd like to offer another perspective.

When I was a kid, my home zoo, The Houston Zoo, was city-owned and was free. It was also a pretty lackluster zoo. By the time I was a teenager they started charging moderate gate fees, but it was really only in the last 15 years or so that the zoo really started to flourish, and though it now costs $22 for adults, it also has come to be considered one of the best zoos in the country. What changed? It was privatized in 2002, and they brought in Rick Barongi, formerly of Disney Animal Kingdom, as its director. He introduced a lot of the Disney-style theming, and it revitalized the public's interest in the zoo.

We have to remember that the bulk of any zoo's customers are not the diehard zoo fans like people on this site, they are families looking for a day of entertainment for their kids. Zoos are competing for those entertainment dollars with amusement parks, not just big ticket trips like Disney parks, but more local parks like Six Flags. By incorporating the theming that gives these families the theme park atmosphere and experience, zoos become more competitive with theme parks, and they get more traffic and can charge gate fees more in line with what the amusement parks charge since a themed-out zoo gives a better perception of entertainment value for the money than a traditional zoo, and that all means more money for the zoos. So when you talk about "money being spent that could've been invested into maintenance or improvements elsewhere" - well, no, that money wouldn't be there to invest into maintenance or improvements elsewhere, the money spent on theming is a capital investment made, often through loans or other financing, because it is expected to have a high ROI because it is going to attract more people to the zoo, ultimately yielding more money that can be spent both on maintenance and improvements and conservation than would be available otherwise.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I hear what y'all are saying about theming and its costs to the zoos, and rising gate fees, but if I may I'd like to offer another perspective.

When I was a kid, my home zoo, The Houston Zoo, was city-owned and was free. It was also a pretty lackluster zoo. By the time I was a teenager they started charging moderate gate fees, but it was really only in the last 15 years or so that the zoo really started to flourish, and though it now costs $22 for adults, it also has come to be considered one of the best zoos in the country. What changed? It was privatized in 2002, and they brought in Rick Barongi, formerly of Disney Animal Kingdom, as its director. He introduced a lot of the Disney-style theming, and it revitalized the public's interest in the zoo.

We have to remember that the bulk of any zoo's customers are not the diehard zoo fans like people on this site, they are families looking for a day of entertainment for their kids. Zoos are competing for those entertainment dollars with amusement parks, not just big ticket trips like Disney parks, but more local parks like Six Flags. By incorporating the theming that gives these families the theme park atmosphere and experience, zoos become more competitive with theme parks, and they get more traffic and can charge gate fees more in line with what the amusement parks charge, and that all means more money for the zoos. So when you talk about "money being spent that could've been invested into maintenance or improvements elsewhere" - well, no, that money wouldn't be there to invest into maintenance or improvements elsewhere, the money spent on theming is a capital investment made, often through loans or other financing, because it is expected to have a high ROI because it is going to attract more people to the zoo, ultimately yielding more money that can be spent both on maintenance and improvements and conservation than would be available otherwise.

Oh yeah, I mean I do understand the economic arguments in favour of privatization of zoos and the drive to commercialize these.

But I'm just saying that I personally prefer the less commercial / theme park feel and aesthetics of European zoos to the sort of overblown and often tacky aesthetics and ambience of many US zoos (again, can only judge from the pictures I've seen in the gallery as I haven't been to one in person).

I would also say that it is possible to strike a healthy balance / middle ground between these two different styles (like Woodland Park zoo and the Bronx zoo appear to have achieved for example).

 

[MarkinTex]

Do you have examples of US zoos you think have gone too far with tacky aesthetics and ambience?

I actually went to one last week. It was the Downtown Aquarium here in Houston, part of the chain owned by restauranteur Tilman Fertita of Landry's Restaurant Group, who also owns the Golden Nugget Casino, which pretty much tells you all you need to know. From a theme park enthusiast's point of view, it was great, like the queue area of a good e-ticket ride at any Disney park. As an aquarium, I thought it was a dud. The theming wasn't really that cohesive with the contents of the tanks at all, and there was no flow to the tanks, jumping around with no rhyme or reason either taxonomically or geographically.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Do you have examples of US zoos you think have gone too far with tacky aesthetics and ambience?

I actually went to one last week. It was the Downtown Aquarium here in Houston, part of the chain owned by restauranteur Tilman Fertita of Landry's Restaurant Group, who also owns the Golden Nugget Casino, which pretty much tells you all you need to know. From a theme park enthusiast's point of view, it was great, like the queue area of a good e-ticket ride at any Disney park. As an aquarium, I thought it was a dud. The theming wasn't really that cohesive with the contents of the tanks at all, and there was no flow to the tanks, jumping around with no rhyme or reason either taxonomically or geographically.

I can't specifically remember any specific zoos but rather that it seems to be a broad trend / tendency across many of them.

I would have to look through the gallery and find specific examples of this but I would say that there are also plenty of European zoos that are similar in this respect and disappointing like for example ZSL London.

 

[Jurek7]

It seems that there are no, or only nominal, minimum standards of wild animal exhibits in the USA. I saw photos of big cats kept in small cages even in major U.S. zoos during the 2010s. Lincoln Zoos lion house, Bronx leopard terrarium or Dallas Aquarium jaguar box. Or middle-sized mammals kept in small indoor cages / aviaries. In Europe it would be unthinkable.

 

[Echobeast]

It seems that there are no, or only nominal, minimum standards of wild animal exhibits in the USA. I saw photos of big cats kept in small cages even in major U.S. zoos during the 2010s. Lincoln Zoos lion house, Bronx leopard terrarium or Dallas Aquarium jaguar box. Or middle-sized mammals kept in small indoor cages / aviaries. In Europe it would be unthinkable.

There are minimum standards for both USDA certification (federal government) and AZA, ZAA, etc. They do tend to be below the minimum for European zoos though.

 

[MarkinTex]

Dallas Aquarium jaguar box.

Oh I remember seeing that jaguar box at Dallas World Aquarium when it was first put in, I found it appalling even back then. Up until then I had really liked DWA, which I had been going to since it was smaller (and much cheaper) but that one enclosure completely soured me on that facility.

 

[Great Argus]

Oh I remember seeing that jaguar box at Dallas World Aquarium when it was first put in, I found it appalling even back then. Up until then I had really liked DWA, which I had been going to since it was smaller (and much cheaper) but that one enclosure completely soured me on that facility.

Worth noting that DWA replaced the Jaguars with Ocelot some time ago now.

 

[OkapiJohn]

I hear what y'all are saying about theming and its costs to the zoos, and rising gate fees, but if I may I'd like to offer another perspective.

When I was a kid, my home zoo, The Houston Zoo, was city-owned and was free. It was also a pretty lackluster zoo. By the time I was a teenager they started charging moderate gate fees, but it was really only in the last 15 years or so that the zoo really started to flourish, and though it now costs $22 for adults, it also has come to be considered one of the best zoos in the country. What changed? It was privatized in 2002, and they brought in Rick Barongi, formerly of Disney Animal Kingdom, as its director. He introduced a lot of the Disney-style theming, and it revitalized the public's interest in the zoo.

We have to remember that the bulk of any zoo's customers are not the diehard zoo fans like people on this site, they are families looking for a day of entertainment for their kids. Zoos are competing for those entertainment dollars with amusement parks, not just big ticket trips like Disney parks, but more local parks like Six Flags. By incorporating the theming that gives these families the theme park atmosphere and experience, zoos become more competitive with theme parks, and they get more traffic and can charge gate fees more in line with what the amusement parks charge since a themed-out zoo gives a better perception of entertainment value for the money than a traditional zoo, and that all means more money for the zoos. So when you talk about "money being spent that could've been invested into maintenance or improvements elsewhere" - well, no, that money wouldn't be there to invest into maintenance or improvements elsewhere, the money spent on theming is a capital investment made, often through loans or other financing, because it is expected to have a high ROI because it is going to attract more people to the zoo, ultimately yielding more money that can be spent both on maintenance and improvements and conservation than would be available otherwise.

As someone who has visited many European zoos, but non in N America, I would say that in Europe zoos do not have a lot of competition from theme/aquatic parks. Nearly every European capital and large city has a zoo, but very few have a theme park. I would say, European cities are so rich in history themself that it is easy for a family to spend a nice day visiting a monument, castle/palace, museum, etc. Zoos do not compete on the same ground, since they are an open-air/nature leisure facility. And so, EU zoos don't need to push that much for theming or for other attractions to appeal/compete for visitors.

 

[Jurek7]

Another thing not seen in Europe but common in major zoos in the USA are pinioned parrots and vultures. Zoos in Europe phase out pinioning even of flamingos and waterfowl.