Article about the possibility of Tasmanian Tigers on New Guinea :Could the Tasmanian tiger be hiding out in New Guinea?
Are there still Tasmanian tigers.....on New Guinea ?
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nanoboy
Well-Known Member
It has been rumoured before that in parts of PNG might lurk / range an animal representative of a Tasmanian tiger. Curious, that local lore has it the Papuan people are wary of the creature.
However, to put a damper on things ... Might it be / have been a relic species? As in mainland (ahum) ... Australia and Tasmania the species was biologically speaking an open range / grassland species (which might explain the ease with which hunters on a government sponsored vermin campaign in only 20-25 years managed to bring the animal on the brink of extinction / exterminate the animal.
Much of the current local interest in the species - for the very lack of any tangible and/or physical recent evidence of the Tasmanian tiger - is more a realisation and a sense of closure / loss mixed with the for better and worse wishful thinking that it may yet survive in some unexpected pocket of its former habitat.
Much of the current government desinterest in the species (IMO) stems from this and on top their sense of culpability / responsibility for having exterminated an iconic species from the region.
However, we may yet ... against better judgement ... live in hope.
However, to put a damper on things ... Might it be / have been a relic species? As in mainland (ahum) ... Australia and Tasmania the species was biologically speaking an open range / grassland species (which might explain the ease with which hunters on a government sponsored vermin campaign in only 20-25 years managed to bring the animal on the brink of extinction / exterminate the animal.
Much of the current local interest in the species - for the very lack of any tangible and/or physical recent evidence of the Tasmanian tiger - is more a realisation and a sense of closure / loss mixed with the for better and worse wishful thinking that it may yet survive in some unexpected pocket of its former habitat.
Much of the current government desinterest in the species (IMO) stems from this and on top their sense of culpability / responsibility for having exterminated an iconic species from the region.
However, we may yet ... against better judgement ... live in hope.
The possibility of Thylacines( a.k.a the 'Dobsigna' by natives) being found in New Guinea has been known about for many years- there doesn't seem to be anything fresh newswise in this article at all.
Regarding the range of the species in Tasmania, they were found at all elevations and in most different types of habitat except the wet rainforests of the South West which support little prey. Thylacines were thought to prefer dry open woodlands/grasslands, and coastal scrub. So these biotypes probably supported the highest populations though this large predator was never at a high density in any area of its former range. While its true that many were eliminated from those areas closest to human habitation,as these were settled and converted into farmland, there would have been many more remote regions which still held Thylacines and where they would not have come into frequent or close contact with people.
So IMO complete extermination just by the hand of man is somewhat unlikely. Even today, there are still sizeable areas of the prime habitat(dry forest) in Tasmania, while the coastal dune and scrublands which seemed to be another favoured Thylacine habitat, remain pretty much intact.
It seems to me that Humans certainly severely decimated the population, then (if it really is extinct as sadly seems to be the case) Nature stepped in and did the rest.
Thanks for pointing out that Tassie tigers did not only favour the open grasslands. However, I do feel that a humans' driven extinction is the main reason behind the Tassie tiger disappearing from Tasmania. As is the case in other species where hunting, habitat loss and other habitat altering factors deplete wildlife populations allow these to become endangered at critical levels population genetics and sex ratios and gene loss come into play to deliver the final blow.
As to whether Tassie tigers or their relative still exist in PNG is another matter and given the much larger still unexplored parts of PNG it is far more likely that they might hang on as opposed to the far more settled parts of Tasmania. The reason why I hold the chances slim that it holds out in Tasmania proper is that no one considered a reliable source has had tangible evidence for the species. However, I remain convinced that the Tasmania Government seems rather tacit / unwilling to invest any considerable manpower in a proper search/survey to document their continued existence and their unwillingness to follow up any potential / prospective reports by members of the public in Tassie tiger sightings / aka larger carnivore species.
I am kinda hoping / expecting Chlidonias or other Antipodeans will bring their perspective on this new old story to the fore!!!
As to whether Tassie tigers or their relative still exist in PNG is another matter and given the much larger still unexplored parts of PNG it is far more likely that they might hang on as opposed to the far more settled parts of Tasmania. The reason why I hold the chances slim that it holds out in Tasmania proper is that no one considered a reliable source has had tangible evidence for the species. However, I remain convinced that the Tasmania Government seems rather tacit / unwilling to invest any considerable manpower in a proper search/survey to document their continued existence and their unwillingness to follow up any potential / prospective reports by members of the public in Tassie tiger sightings / aka larger carnivore species.
I am kinda hoping / expecting Chlidonias or other Antipodeans will bring their perspective on this new old story to the fore!!!
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Many people believe that there is a political 'cover-up' as to whether it still exists or not, due to reluctance of their government to have to protect large areas and/or halt lucrative woodchipping operations should its existence be proved or widely publicised. This is often cited as one of the reasons why many 'bona fide' sightings are supressed or not given due credibility. Some sightings also never come to light for fear of ridicule. But many Tasmanians are perfectly convinced the animals still exist, though it isn't officially admitted. Personally speaking, I don't think they could keep its survival under wraps for for so long if it really did still exist.
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Very cool article. Where is Thylo?
Right here!
I was sleeping when this was posted, though.You may be surprised that I'm skeptical. I think we'll have to look more towards future technology for the Thylacine to roam the forests of Tasmania again....
....If it's not already
~Thylo
Agreed. But the article was about PNG. Allthough I would say the same goes here for camera trapping technology et cetera.
Although I said there wasn't anything new in the PNG theory article(there isn't) I would rate their chances of being found there as certainly higher than in Tasmania. Being in the tropics though, I would expect a rather smaller animal-perhaps a cat- sized one rather than of Tasmanian proportions/dimensions. I do like the idea of pocket-sized Thylacines!
Being in the tropics though, I would expect a rather smaller animal-perhaps a cat- sized one rather than of Tasmanian proportions/dimensions. I do like the idea of pocket-sized Thylacines!
I do like the idea of pocket-sized Thylacines!
Every thylacine was pocket-sized in infancy
Alan
Every thylacine was pocket-sized in infancy
Yes, I've seen skins of preserved ones- they were tiny replicas of the adults. But a pocket-sized adult would be cool too!
but it is known that New Guinea thylacines weren't cat-sized because there are subfossil remains from the island....Although I said there wasn't anything new in the PNG theory article(there isn't) I would rate their chances of being found there as certainly higher than in Tasmania.
Chlidonias, I guess our friends were just have a joke there.
Seriously, how high do you rate the chances of Tassie tiger having survived on PNG till the present? Are the reports of dobsigna by your analysis at all reliable ...?
Seriously, how high do you rate the chances of Tassie tiger having survived on PNG till the present? Are the reports of dobsigna by your analysis at all reliable ...?
I am more comfortable with New Guinea than Tasmania (where I don't think they still exist at all). The local stories of the dobsigna are certainly interesting in their descriptions of appearance, but at the same time those descriptions come via the cryptozoological community which is renowned for picking out only the details that fit their theories.
My concern for New Guinea is that it is mostly not typical Tasmanian thylacine habitat (it is largely mountainous rainforest) but the animal certainly lived there until after the arrival of humans so it probably had local differences in its ecology, and the only real reason it should be extinct now is through competition/disease from domestic dogs. However if its range in New Guinea was mostly in the lowland grasslands (eg where agile wallabies are still found) and perhaps alpine grasslands then there is little hope it still survives.
I do suspect that when it lived in New Guinea it was mostly not a rainforest animal, and its range on the island was more relict than overall.
it was only a half-joke.
Do you know if the subfossils were similar in size to Tasmanian modern day ones?1. Agree with your first point.
2. Presumably the hunting styles of Thylacines would mean that in both Tasmania and PNG they occupied habitats where prey species were more plentiful, or at least abundant enough, to sustain them. There may have been some differences in habitat usage between two very different parts of their range, but the ecological niche for the one species would have had to be similar. Which leads to 3.
3. As you are no doubt fully aware, Tasmanian thylacines weren't rainforest dwellers either. It was the one habitat they appear to have favoured least. I imagine it is/was a rather similar situation on PNG. So your comments about them being 'relict' and being confined to the smaller areas of more open/grassland areas, rings true.
4. Do you think the presence of dogs would be sufficient to cause their extinction? There are arguments nowadays that competition with Dingoes was not the main cause of the species decline and extinction in mainland Australia.
5. I also wonder if the continued/modern references to the 'dobsigna' by local people are kept alive by cultural story-telling traditions, as happened between Thylacines and Aborigines in some parts of Australia, and actually refer to a recently extinct species.
I have read something about it but I'm not sure where and I couldn't give specifics but yes a similar size (I imagine though that there could be some sort of cline from larger in Tasmania to smaller in northern Australia and New Guinea).Pertinax said:
yes I do think it most likely that in New Guinea they would have been largely or perhaps entirely confined to the southern open habitats. I think the distribution of agile wallabies would provide a good sort of equivalent. Widespread in Australia in open habitats (i.e. grasslands, open woodlands, etc, but not rainforest) and in New Guinea restricted to the same habitats and therefore not anywhere near as widespread. Just theoretical of course.
if thylacines were quite restricted in distribution in New Guinea then yes indeed, especially because the open habitats would be more likely areas for dogs to also be prevalent and where the humans would also find the hunting easier. If the thylacines were widespread in the forests, though, then I would say no to extinction through direct impacts from dogs because they just aren't that populous in the forests themselves (the dogs that is). I rather think disease brought in with novel animals such as dogs was probably an important factor. What are the arguments against dogs in the mainland Australian situation?Pertinax said:
1. That's exactly what I meant by 'cat-size' but maybe that was an exaggeration. Smaller though, as you say representing a cline from temperate(larger) to tropical(smaller).
2. The argument against Dingoes(rather than domesticated dogs) being responsible for the decline/extermination of Thylacines in mainland Australia is that until about 200 years ago, they weren't that common as wild animals, only as Aboriginals' hunting companions. The same argument (this is from Paddle's book) is that Thylacines were already under severe pressure from competition with people(the Aboriginals) and the Dingoes may only have added to that pressure in the latter stages of the Thylacines' demise- but they were not the primary cause.
In Tasmania, Thylacines were known to be at least as powerful as Dogs, which were usually very frightened of Thylacines, and may well have been able to drive them away, possibly the same was true with Dingoes in mainland Australia?
By the way, he also argues there is some evidence that Thylacines didn't all die out on the mainland 'millenia ago' and that a couple of relict populations, namely in the Flinders ranges and in the Blue Mountain environs of Sydney, may have existed until a couple of hundred years ago. This theory is backed by Aboriginal recollections of the species.
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I just saw this story with what sounds credible reports of Thylacines in New Guinea and remembered this old thread so thought it was the appropriate place to post it.
There is even the report of a villager having raised a Thylacine joey, which unfortunately was killed by dogs.
There is even the report of a villager having raised a Thylacine joey, which unfortunately was killed by dogs.