British Isles Cup Group A: Dublin/Fota vs Cotswold

Dublin/Fota vs Cotswold: South and Central America

  • Dublin/Fota 3-0 Cotswold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dublin/Fota 2-1 Cotswold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bonus: Cotswold

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

CGSwans

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
And we’re off. South and Central America.

The quoted post below contains an in-depth explanation of how this cup will work. I’ll just summarise how the bonus votes are supposed to work:
- You do not have to cast a bonus vote and should only do so if it means your vote more accurately reflects the relative merits of each zoo. Don’t cast bonus votes just because you can.
- You can select one of the bonus vote options, but it will only be counted if you post an explanation, of at least 25 words, of why you are voting the way you are.
- Both regular votes and bonus votes are changeable. If you change your mind about how to vote, do take account of your bonus vote as well. Remember that you are essentially casting four votes, so consider what balance you are trying to strike.
- A bonus vote can not be cast for a zoo that you have already voted 3-0 for. That is, you cannot cast what amounts to a 4-0 vote.


I said I probably wasn’t going to do another one of these until next year, and certainly not so soon, so what’s changed?

Events, dear boy, events.

I think we all need a distraction from the end of the world, and if we’re lucky and things do get back to normal soon, I’m hoping I might be able to travel next year. So I’m bringing forward my plans for the biggest, most inclusive and hopefully best ZooChat Cup yet.

Soon.

This isn’t that version. There’s a couple of things I want to test first, and I can think of no greater nation to serve as lab rats than the British (and the Irish. I am certainly not stepping into *that* debate). So I’m going to run a relatively small, quick tournament featuring 12 British Isles zoos. Note that I will probably lapse into calling this a ‘British’ tournament from here on, but again, I acknowledge Dublin is not in Britain.

The large number of members here who are based in Britain makes it one of the very few countries where a dedicated Cup can work. I realise though that this leaves out a big part of our community that haven’t been to any of the zoos in question, and I apologise for that. I have a plan that will make it easier to participate from nearly every part of the zoo world that I’ll roll out soon.

Until then, remember that you don’t need to have visited a zoo to vote. If you’re not sure you know enough to vote, ask! If you know you like chimps but aren’t sure what to make of Edinburgh’s exhibit, post in the thread asking for information that can help you make up your mind. Sharing knowledge is the point of this game.

So how will it work?

The format will be as follows: two divisions of six zoos each, where each zoo will play each other once. After that, the top three zoos from each conference will progress to a finals round, where they will play only the three qualifiers from the other half of the draw.

They will not play twice against the other qualifiers from their own division. Instead, they will carry the results from their matches against the other qualifiers forward. For instance, take the following scenario of results from a division:

Cotswold 4-1, 60%
Twycross 3-2, 55%
London 3-2, 52%
Jersey 2-3, 48%
Paignton 2-3 45%
Chester 1-4, 40%

I know, I know. The bottom place finish isn’t *quite* realistic. I’ll come to that.

The three qualifying zoos are Cotswold, Twycross and London. Cotswold has topped the group, which is great. Well done Cotswold. But when we look at the results between those three zoos, we see that they didn’t quite dominate against the other qualifiers. The three matches between them were as follows:

Twycross 60 d. London 40
Cotswold 55 d London 45
Twycross 70 d Cotswold 30

While Cotswold topped the group, it’s actually now behind Twycross as it enters the second round, because Twycross performed best against the other qualifiers. The standings that the three zoos take with them are as follows:

Twycross 2-0, 65%
Cotswold 1-1, 44.5%
London 0-2, 42.5%

Once each of these zoos has played against the three qualifiers from the other division (let’s say Paignton, Edinburgh and Bristol. It doesn’t matter), the leading zoo wins the Cup. This is a fair system, because it ensures that in the second and final round, the six zoos each play each other once, but it avoids running additional matches between zoos that have already faced each other.

The other really big and important change concerns how we vote. I am trialling a new idea here that I *hope* will work well enough to roll it out into the bigger tournament I have planned to follow this one. Rather than the existing four options (3-0 or 2-1 for each competing zoo), there will be six, and you will need to select two of them.

You will still need to vote 2-1, or 3-0 for one of the zoos. But you will have two additional options, to give a bonus vote to one zoo or the other. The list of options for a Twycross-Bristol match would look like this:

Bristol 3-0 Twycross
Bristol 2-1 Twycross
Twycross 2-1 Bristol
Twycross 3-0 Bristol
Bonus - Bristol
Bonus - Twycross

For a vote to be valid you *must* choose one and only one of the first four options. Casting a bonus vote is optional, but you must choose either neither, or one option.

What are the bonus votes? They are an incentive to dive into the discussion. Your bonus vote is triggered only when you post explaining why you have voted the way you have. That explanation must be substantial: I reserve the right to change the threshold based on seeing what works, but for now I am setting it at a minimum of 25 words.

Bonus votes can be applied to make a 2-1 vote either a 3-1 split or a 2-2 one (you’re welcome, @TeaLovingDave). They can also turn a 3-0 decision into a 3-1 vote. They *cannot*, however, be used to turn a 3-0 vote into a 4-0 one. That is too powerful and will distort the results too much if people don’t play within the spirit of the rules.

This system will mean a little bit of extra work for me: I will need to post at the conclusion of each match identifying which bonus votes cast are valid, and confirming the overall result.

I’m not 100% sure this will work the way I hope, but bear with me as we work it out together. Finally, there’s one more important difference to previous tournaments. In this one, contestants will be defined as the zoo organisations as a whole: ZSL will be represented by London and Whipsnade together. The same applies to the following entities:
  • Aspinall Foundation
  • Bristol Zoo Society
  • Royal Zoo Society of Scotland
  • Zoo Society of East Anglia
  • Wild Planet Trust (I just learned this is Whitley’s new name. Urgh.)
This is a one-time deal and does not set a precedent for future competitions. I’m doing it differently here because I think it makes for a better, more interesting competition, but that doesn’t apply on a global level.

These six entities will be joined by Colchester, Cotswold, Dublin, Jersey, Marwell and Twycross. I haven’t drawn the divisions yet but each will have three combined entities and three standalone zoos.

But wait. What about Chester?

I’m leaving Chester out, for two reasons. One is that it only recently finished up a finals appearance in the World Cup, and so it’s had a good run already. The other is that it is such a recognised standout in the UK that everybody else would likely be playing for second, and that makes for a dull game. Besides, it did really badly in my made-up scenario earlier, so it deserves to be demoted. ;)

We’ll get underway tomorrow.
 
Dublin/Fota:
Bolivian squirrel monkey
Callimico
Eastern pygmy marmoset
Golden lion tamarin
Linnaeus' two-toed sloth
South American tapir
White-faced saki
Black-and-gold howler monkey
Capybara
Colombian black spider monkey
Patagonian mara

Black-bellied whistling duck
Coscoroba swan
Chilean flamingo
Humboldt penguin
Military macaw
White-cheeked pintail
Northern pintail

Common green iguana
Jamaican boa
Central American wood turtle
Red-footed tortoise

Cotswold WP:
Azara's agouti
Bearded emperor tamarin
Capybara
Common squirrel monkey
Cotton-top tamarin
Giant anteater
Golden-handed tamarin
Linnaeus' two toed sloth
Paraguayan tamandua
Patagonian mara
Pygmy marmoset
Red titi
Seba's short-tailed bat
Six-banded armadillo
South American tapir

Black curassow
Blue-and-yellow macaw
Blue throated piping guan
Burrowing owl
Chilean flamingo
Chiloe wigeon
Coscoroba swon
Fulvous whistling duck
Green aracari
Guira cuckoo
Humboldt penguin
Muscovy duck
Northern pintail
Northern shoveler
Red shoveler
Ringed teal
Scarlet ibis
Silver teal
Southern black-bellied whistling duck
Southern lapwing
Southern screamer
Speckled teal
Striated caracara
Turkey vulture
Cattle egret
White faced whistling duck

Blue spiny lizard
Eyelash viper
Hispaniolan rhinoceros iguana
Jamaican boa
Morelet's crocodile
Utile spinytail iguana

47-22 in Cotswolds WP's favour. Photos in a bit for those who are interested.
 
Cotswold WP (Thanks to @gulogulogulo for the photos):


Tropical house with numerous species of duck as well as the tamanduas, armadillos and aracaris:

full

full


Eyelash viper exhibit:

full


Tamandua and armadillo outdoors:

full


Humboldt penguin exhibit:

full


Blue-throated piping-guan exhibit:

full


I'm sure there are many more, but that hopefully gives a sort of idea as to what kind of exhibits they are :)
 
Dublin + Fota

Flamingo aviary with Bahama pintails in there as well:

full


South America house with White-faced sakis, Golden lion tamarins, sloths, macaws, Callimicos and a few species of turtle:

full

full


Howler monkey or spider monkey enclosure?

full


Sadly, I was not able to find many relevant photos from these zoos, especially Fota, mainly because of the paucity of photos of the latter but also of some not very descriptive photo titles, so it would be great if a regular/once time visitor could give their opinion on the zoo in this aspect?
Thanks
AL
 
I have only visited CWP, and as such my knowledge of the two Irish collections is limited to the information I have gleaned through this site and discussion with friends who have visited; however, Cotswold *is* very strong in this category in my opinion, having both a relatively large collection and rather nice exhibits for this collection, and prior to the slight adjustment in the voting rules it would have certainly earned a 3-0 vote despite the fact that (judging from photographs) Fota and Dublin seem to also have very pleasant-looking exhibits for what little they do have.

However, this is purely because the 3-vote system lacks the required subtlety to differentiate between a collection with nothing to offer, and one which *is* good but which doesn't merit as much as one-third of the overall vote. I don't think that Fota/Dublin are good enough in this category to merit 1/3 of the vote, but equally it wouldn't be fair to say they deserve none of the vote..... and now we have a solution to the problem :)

3-0 to CWP, with a bonus point to Dublin/Fota.
 
This is a list of all the animals but mirror animals are in red
Dublin/Fota:
Bolivian squirrel monkey
Callimico
Eastern pygmy marmoset
Golden lion tamarin
Linnaeus' two-toed sloth
South American tapir
White-faced saki
Black-and-gold howler monkey
Capybara
Colombian black spider monkey
Patagonian mara

Black-bellied whistling duck
Coscoroba swan
Chilean flamingo
Humboldt penguin
Military macaw
White-cheeked pintail
Northern pintail

Common green iguana
Jamaican boa
Central American wood turtle
Red-footed tortoise

Cotswold WP:
Azara's agouti
Bearded emperor tamarin
Capybara
Common squirrel monkey
Cotton-top tamarin
Giant anteater
Golden-handed tamarin
Linnaeus' two toed sloth
Paraguayan tamandua
Patagonian mara
Pygmy marmoset
Red titi
Seba's short-tailed bat
Six-banded armadillo
South American tapir

Black curassow
Blue-and-yellow macaw
Blue throated piping guan
Burrowing owl
Chilean flamingo
Chiloe wigeon
Coscoroba swan
Fulvous whistling duck
Green aracari
Guira cuckoo
Humboldt penguin
Muscovy duck
Northern pintail
Northern shoveler
Red shoveler
Ringed teal
Scarlet ibis
Silver teal
Southern black-bellied whistling duck
Southern lapwing
Southern screamer
Speckled teal
Striated caracara
Turkey vulture
Cattle egret
White faced whistling duck

Blue spiny lizard
Eyelash viper
Hispaniolan rhinoceros iguana
Jamaican boa
Morelet's crocodile
Utile spinytail iguana
 
This is a list of all the animals but mirror animals are in red
Dublin/Fota:
Bolivian squirrel monkey
Callimico
Eastern pygmy marmoset
Golden lion tamarin
Linnaeus' two-toed sloth
South American tapir

White-faced saki
Black-and-gold howler monkey
Capybara
Colombian black spider monkey
Patagonian mara

Black-bellied whistling duck
Coscoroba swan
Chilean flamingo
Humboldt penguin

Military macaw
White-cheeked pintail
Northern pintail

Common green iguana
Jamaican boa
Central American wood turtle
Red-footed tortoise

Cotswold WP:
Azara's agouti
Bearded emperor tamarin
Capybara
Common squirrel monkey
Cotton-top tamarin
Giant anteater
Golden-handed tamarin
Linnaeus' two toed sloth
Paraguayan tamandua
Patagonian mara
Pygmy marmoset
Red titi
Seba's short-tailed bat
Six-banded armadillo
South American tapir

Black curassow
Blue-and-yellow macaw
Blue throated piping guan
Burrowing owl
Chilean flamingo
Chiloe wigeon
Coscoroba swan
Fulvous whistling duck
Green aracari
Guira cuckoo
Humboldt penguin
Muscovy duck
Northern pintail
Northern shoveler
Red shoveler
Ringed teal
Scarlet ibis
Silver teal
Southern black-bellied whistling duck
Southern lapwing
Southern screamer
Speckled teal
Striated caracara
Turkey vulture
Cattle egret
White faced whistling duck

Blue spiny lizard
Eyelash viper
Hispaniolan rhinoceros iguana
Jamaican boa
Morelet's crocodile
Utile spinytail iguana

And black-bellied whistling ducks, pygmy marmosets and squirrel monkeys (not quite the same species for the latter but it is virtually the same thing) :)
 
For a major zoo Dublin doesn't have much of anything to offer, and I don't think it's Fota's strong point either. Fortunately fo them, a lot of CWP's South American collection is held in rather basic enclosures so I feel that it doesn't deserve the 3-0 score, and neither collection gets a bonus. :)
 
Here are a few more photos I found.

Cotswold

Pygmy Marmosets

full



Another couple of the Tropical House
full

full


Green Araci outdoor enclosure
full


Another one of the Humboldt penguin exhibit
full


Chilean Flamingos - unsure if they have access to the pond
full


South American Tapir and Capybara exhibit
full


This is the best of the Giant Anteater enclosure I could find.
full


Turkey Vulture aviary
full


Burrowing Owl aviary
full
 
Dublin

South American Tapir enclosure
full


South American Tapir Indoors
full


South America House
full


Humboldt Penguin exhibit
full


Another one of the Chilean Flamingo exhibit
full


Outdoor Squirrel Monkey enclosure
full


Outdoor Saki Monkey enclosure
full
 
Fota

Portion of Saki Monkey enclosure
full


Portion of Colombian Spider Monkey enclosure
full


I'm not sure, but I think the Mara may be free roaming.
 
The Tropical House at Cotswold looks pretty nice plus Cotswold has almost double species than Dublin+Fota I will vote 2-1 in favor of Cotswold with no bonus for neither collection.
 
It's a tough one this as I am unsure whether to go 3-1 or 2-1 to Cotswold. Obviously, Cotswold has the far superior species line up which guaranteed it the win. However Dublin/Fota do have some impressive exhibits such as the Flamingo aviary and Howler Monkey enclosure, meaning they deserve at least a point. I decided against giving Cotswold a bonus point as from the photos a lot of their enclosures seem quite tired and they have no real impressive exhibit in this category. Although I'm sure when the Tropical House first opened it would have been a stand out exhibit, but now it is beginning to look a bit dated.
 
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