British Isles Cup Redux - FINALS - Dublin/Fota vs ZSL

[TeaLovingDave]

This one should hopefully be fairly interesting, and I definitely hope for more participation this time round, as two organisations which have been fairly strong throughout the competition face off head-to-head in the categories of ASIA and PRIMATES.

As a gentle reminder - if one is to vote 5-0 for either competitor, the logic behind your vote must be given and amount to more than merely "it's the one I want to win" for the vote to be counted, given how much of an unbalancing factor a biased 5-0 vote can represent..... especially if it occurs in a match with low participation levels!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

As a general note; although last time the unsound vote was blatant enough it could be easily discounted, it *does* illustrate why participation is so important - the lower the number of total votes, the more of an unbalancing factor a vote which is obviously biased but cannot be discounted represents.

In the last round, given how few people took part in the vote, had the 5-0 vote for Dublin been allowed to stand the final percentages would have been 48.57% and 51.43% respectively as opposed to a 40/60 split..... a much tighter margin, and if this kind of thing happened more than once or twice possibly decisive in the long run.

Of course, it goes without saying that I would really prefer *everyone* to post explanations for their votes, so as to prompt discussion and debate and better inform others, and not merely the outliers!

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I voted ZSL, you asked for an explanation of my vote so I'll explain below.

Primates

Loris: Grey slender loris, potto.

Galago: Moholi bushbaby.

Lemurs: Aye-aye, Lac Alaotran gentle lemur, ring tailed lemur.

New world monkeys: Goeldi's monkey, Saki monkey, Colombian spider monkey, squirrel monkey, golden lion tamarin, golden headed lion tamarin, pied tamarin, emperor tamarin, coppery titi monkey.

Old world monkeys: Hanuman langur, Diana monkey, Sulawesi crested macaque, black and white colobus monkey, white naped mangabey.

Lesser apes: White cheeked, hybrid gibbon.

Great apes: Western lowland gorilla, chimpanzee.

Asiatic fauna

Primates: Grey slender loris, Hanuman langur, Sulawesi crested macaque, white cheeked gibbon, hybrid gibbon.

Ungulates / hoofstock: Asiatic elephant, Indian rhino, gaur, yak, Bactrian camel, Pere David's deer, Sambar deer, axis deer, Chinese muntjac, babirusa, Visayan warty hog, Malayan tapir.

Carnivores: Red panda, Asian short clawed otter, Asiatic lion, Sumatran tiger and Amur tiger (you could add cheetah and wolverine potentially too).

Rodents: Swinhoe's striped squirrel.

Plus all of the birds, reptiles and amphibians.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Basically the only species I could see that was in Dublin / Fota's favour was their orangutangs and to a lesser extent their snowleopards and that wasn't enough to swing the vote in their favour for me.

 

[pipaluk]

I voted ZSL, you asked for an explanation of my vote so I'll explain below.

Primates

Loris: Grey slender loris, potto.

Galago: Moholi bushbaby.

Lemurs: Aye-aye, Lac Alaotran gentle lemur, ring tailed lemur.

New world monkeys: Goeldi's monkey, Saki monkey, Colombian spider monkey, squirrel monkey, golden lion tamarin, golden headed lion tamarin, pied tamarin, emperor tamarin, coppery titi monkey.

Old world monkeys: Hanuman langur, Diana monkey, Sulawesi crested macaque, black and white colobus monkey, white naped mangabey.

Lesser apes: White cheeked, hybrid gibbon.

Great apes: Western lowland gorilla, chimpanzee.

Asiatic fauna

Primates: Grey slender loris, Hanuman langur, Sulawesi crested macaque, white cheeked gibbon, hybrid gibbon.

Ungulates / hoofstock: Asiatic elephant, Indian rhino, gaur, yak, Bactrian camel, Pere David's deer, Sambar deer, axis deer, Chinese muntjac, babirusa, Visayan warty hog, Malayan tapir.

Carnivores: Red panda, Asian short clawed otter, Asiatic lion, Sumatran tiger and Amur tiger (you could add cheetah and wolverine potentially too).

Rodents: Swinhoe's striped squirrel.

Plus all of the birds, reptiles and amphibians.

ZSL no longer hold Malayan Tapir or Axis deer but there are a few ungulates missing from the list, including Prezwalski's horse, nilgai, blackbuck, Chinese water deer, hog deer. Also Sloth Bear.

This is a close one, at least on mammals.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

ZSL no longer hold Malayan Tapir or Axis deer but there are a few ungulates missing from the list, including Prezwalski's horse, nilgai, blackbuck, Chinese water deer, hog deer. Also Sloth Bear.

This is a close one, at least on mammals.

Well I think the species missing from the list I wrote just strengthen the case for ZSL , right?

Where did the tapir go ? I saw them in 2019 several times at London.

 

[amur leopard]

Also voting in favour of ZSL due to their far superior species list and good exhibits to go with them.

Where did the tapir go ? I saw them in 2019 several times at London.

Tapirs got replaced by red river hogs.

 

[pipaluk]

Also voting in favour of ZSL due to their far superior species list and good exhibits to go with them.



Tapirs got replaced by red river hogs.

The Tapirs died and I think Babirusa replaced them, the RRH replaced the bearded pigs

 

[amur leopard]

The Tapirs died and I think Babirusa replaced them, the RRH replaced the bearded pigs

Ah yes, that's it. Sorry for the misinformation, need a knowledge refresher after such a long period of inactivity

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Also voting in favour of ZSL due to their far superior species list and good exhibits to go with them.



Tapirs got replaced by red river hogs.

Also voting in favour of ZSL due to their far superior species list and good exhibits to go with them.



Tapirs got replaced by red river hogs.

Wow, that was fast wasn't it ?

I saw both the tapir and the bearded pigs in 2019

 

[dublinlion]

Basically the only species I could see that was in Dublin / Fota's favour was their orangutangs and to a lesser extent their snowleopards and that wasn't enough to swing the vote in their favour for me.

Thats a bit harsh, even dismissive.
One of the most successful and impressive Elephant herds in Europe. Famous for Cheetah Breeding and around 20 on display, good group of Drill monkeys, 3 Mangabey species, Francois Langur, 3 Gibbon species, Black Howlers, huge (20 plus) breeding groups of Liontailed Macaques and Sulawesi apes, 5 lemur species and all in very good to great enclosures in both Irish zoos. For the last 10 years Dublin zoo has invested at least 2 million euros each year in rebuilding enclosures and other improvements, so has very few weak spots and the Cork zoo has imo some of the best and biggest enclosures anywhere. The wooded Asian Lion and lush tropical looking Lar Gibbon habitats are my favorite exhibits anywhere for these species.
Anyway I know and like both ZSL parks and although they have a stronger species list esp. birds and reptiles, I would edge the vote towards the Irish zoos. A few years ago ZSL would have blown all opposition away but the Irish zoos are getting stronger every year and with Leo retired and the revamp almost done they will likely add new species in the near future.

 

[Brum]

3-2 ZSL for me, the herp's and birds clinch it. But Dublin/Fota do have a really nice primate collection, definitely worthy of two points.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

but the Irish zoos are getting stronger every year and with Leo retired and the revamp almost done they will likely add new species in the near future.

They are certainly high on my list for future non-UK zoo visits; in fact I had hoped to reach Dublin sometime this year before the transition period ended and made travel much more tricky, but Covid gotta Covid

Also voting in favour of ZSL due to their far superior species list and good exhibits to go with them.

You haven't actually voted yet!

 

[Brum]

They are certainly high on my list for future non-UK zoo visits; in fact I had hoped to reach Dublin sometime this year before the transition period ended and made travel much more tricky, but Covid gotta Covid

I'm thinking about going for a long weekend next year, especially if the IZES meet-up is held there as well.

 

[amur leopard]

Famous for Cheetah Breeding and around 20 on display

Not sure how this species is relevant...

You haven't actually voted yet!

Remedied

 

[TNT]

I'm thinking about going for a long weekend next year, especially if the IZES meet-up is held there as well.

I expect a review of the pubs too!

 

[pipaluk]

I'm thinking about going for a long weekend next year, especially if the IZES meet-up is held there as well.

I'm in!

 

[TNT]

I'm in!

As am I

 

[Dormitator]

Primates

My least favourite mammal group, but London has more species which interest me than Dublin/Fota so basically wins on personal interest alone and Predicted Lingering Time (PTL). Similar number of species held, enclosures all look pretty good as far as I can see in the gallery/remember.

Asia

Dublin house a couple of interesting Asian reptiles, but that's about it for herps and fish. No interesting Asian birds either, so it's up the mammals to try and claw something back, which they don't really. A handful of nice amphibians, reptiles and fish at Fota (Kaiser's Spotted newt being of note) add a bit more balance along with a small number of birds (but Corncrake!). Mammals at least are stronger, but overall I was disappointed by the Irish showing here, though the point above about the quality of some of the enclosures is worth bearing in mind.

ZSL however is much stronger here I feel. Though London lacks a number of Asiatic mammals, Whipsnade more than makes up for this and beats the showing in Ireland on its own. Mammals aren't everything of course (far from it), but London's more interesting bird collection is housed in generally rather nice enclosures, the amphibians see Fota's Kaiser's Spotted newt and raise it Chinese giant salamanders and reptiles including King cobra and Chinese crocodile lizard. Add to that a handful of reptiles, some very nice fish species (if only the aquarium in London was still open...), and a couple of extra birds from Whipsnade and you have a clear winner.

Overall, and I'm prepared to get a little flack for this, 4:1 ZSL.